Reign of Gaming

Quote from Xyltin »

I think riot has to reduce the flat values to never reach 50 with runes + masteries + items (it should be possible, but not with 2-3 flat ArPen items)
At the same time they should increase the % value (not with one item, but by increaseing the amount of items).

I love your suggestion, 100% agreed.

"That will probably lead to glass canon vs glass canon if they are not careful with the penetration change."

yay, that sounds like fun

If you are Xerath with Void Staff and 21 offense masteries you already have 90% mr reduction(void staff + masteries + locus of power)  you are near true damage put him sorc shoes and you are hitting true damage against anyone under 200 MR. I think we will see Xerath a lot more in s3.

Another thing how external source of Mpen are calculated? I'm thinking about Mpen procured by Soraka Starcall / Fiddlesticks passive or a support carrying an abyssal scepter. Do they reduce the global Mres of a champion or are calculated after your own %reduction?

(Sorry for the bad english)

40% + 10% + 40% would be 90%, but penetration doesn't work like that.

40% + 6% + 21.6% = 67.6%

Currently it is:
Reduction (flat and %; order based on the ability)
Flat Penetration
% Penetration

S1/S3:
Reduction (flat and %; order based on the ability)
% Penetration
Flat Penetration

Reductions will stay the same (Jarvan, Wukong, Abyssal, BC, ...)

I see what you did there...Took me a moment to see where you got those numbers, final number is correct though.

Reduction however does not care about order of abilities. It is applied the same way. Flat first then percent.

Sry, was at work and didn't have the time to write the formula down.
Actually I'm always at work when i wrote in here and don't have much time for a single post.

Regardless, 67.6% is still a huge reduction, and I do predict the changes to penetration to be an immense indirect buff to Xerath. I already love to play him because of his immense damage potential late game due to the fact that he ignores so much resistances when using his root, but if those penetration changes go through, his late game will make him a monster with enough Magic Penetration.

Abyssal scepter magic reduction is calculated before any magic penetration.

the change won't change xerath mechanics it will boost any1 damage so xerath won't get a huge boost at all

Actually he will, since now he will be doing true damage to anyone with under 100 MR.

Xerath with Sorc Shoes, Haunting Guise, Void Staff, Mastery and Max Locus of Power:

Against 100 MR under old: (100-20-20)*67.6% ~ 19.5 MR

Against 100 MR under new: (100*67.6%)-20-20 = 0 MR (Penetration can't reduce below zero)

19.5 MR is a big difference. You are only doing about 84% of your potential damage against 19.5 MR (the game will round up to 20). I don't know about you but seeing a ~16% damage increase in that scenario is a lot.

That's right.

champs with a large amount of % Penetration will get a bigger advantage (when they combined flat with that % Penetration) than others:
- Darius (his E + brutalizer + Runes + LW could be really broken)
- Xerath (Sorc shoes + W + runes + mastery alone will give him around 14 extra penetration)

Mmh, about mages... this may help Annie a lot but unless they're gonna change Hunting Guise and Abyssal and add more MagPen items, I dare to say this is not gonna help Assassin mages that much, since Hunting Guise is an excellent mid game item -if you're ahead- on champs like Rumble, Ryze, even Annie, but 25 AP lategame make it kinda lacklustre; Abyssal has a meh range after its nerf and is now more suited to AP bruiser than to long range mages (ofc its AP and MR are still excellent).

What I mean is that having a non-upgradeable 25AP item like HG and a short range aura item like Abyssal on... let's say LeBlanc kinda sucks (I do hate Auras on assassins, you can hide in a bush and your debuff auras -or buff ones if you're really a stupid assassin and your teammates are close to you- are gonna warn every enemy getting closer: "hey, that idiot is in that bush, let's skillshot/dive him").

Instead some Utility mages like Morg (Sorc Shoes, Zhonya's, Abyssal, Raba, Void, GA/RoA (first item or skip)/Grail (from early Chalice)) are gonna get way more benefits than most of the above mentioned AP assassins; same goes for some sustain spammers (wanna see a Cassio with Sorc + Abyssal + Raba + Rylai + Void + WotA Twin Fanging your face with true damage every 0.5 sec?? Same goes for Ryze).

Pretty much the same could be said about AD casters: Yomuu's Ghostblade is an excellent item but has Crit Chance, which is almost a useless stat on most of the AD casters and just decent on Pantheon (after getting Certain Death) and Talon (only post Trinity and if he's gonna get IE last item); Black Cleaver has AS and a passive that needs to be stacked: so meh on any AD caster. If they'd implement something like LVDP even on SR map, that would be awesome.

In short: speculating before the new items and the changes to current itemization is kinda dangerous and could be misleading, but for sure the change to how penetration works is a big mechanic change and something I guess we all welcome.

This is just gonna put ADC at an even more dominant role in the game.  200 armor vs an ADC already gets shredded in under 10 seconds late game, this will make it more like 8 seconds.

As well, all standard mid-laners will benefit from this greatly, as most get void staff in their builds.

To me, this just pushes bruisers (already pretty much worthless towards the end of s2) and tanks further down in viability

Aside from the voidstaff/mastery thing, the actual increase in damage you write up ( the 14%) is wrong. the difference in damage, going by the example, now is 77%, and in S3 it will be 91%. this means there is an increase of 91/77 = 1.1818..., so 18.2% increase in damage.

Although your math looks right, I think your flawed.

I can't remember where I read it and I can't find the article so I'll do my best.  When stacking multiplicatively you are actually multiply a different number then what is displayed.  This is because you don't care about that number.  You care about it's effect.  40% of 100 is 60.  We don't care about the 40% because thats not the result. The 60 is.

Another way to look at it is, we are doing 100% of our damage and Armor/MR is reducing it.  So we care about the end result of of the defense stat.  So I'm not doing 91% of my damage.  I'm doing 100% of my damage and it is being reduced by 9%.  That is why he says 9% damage reduction and not 91% of our damage.  When this damage reduction changes, our end damage changes.  But 100 damage is still 100 damage.

Does that make sense? Don't know if I explained it well.