Bloodthirster vs IE

Intro

Gentleman Gustaf here today with another quick item comparison. In Season 2, Infinity Edge was the go-to first AD Carry item, then PD, then Last Whisper (although occasionally LW came right on the heels of Zeal). However, on some AD Carries, BT first started to become a very strong build. The jury was still split, but it was far from uncommon to see either build. Has this changed in Season 3?

Changes

What changes did the new season bring? We can ignore the pen changes and the armor changes; both affect BT and IE equally. But BT got a 10 damage buff when not yet filled (but remained the same with full stacks), while IE got a 10 damage nerf. I will show how this small nerf to IE has actually made BT THE top choice for AD Carries who previously had dabbled in a BT first build, but more interestingly, how mandatorily IE first champs like Caitlyn, Ashe, and Tristana may now benefit from a BT rush.

First, the basics: let us assume that these items are finished around level 11. At level 11, the average AD Carry has 106 AD (counting runes and masteries), and 1.002 AS (counting Berserker Greaves). The same champion also has .05 Crit Dmg (from masteries), and 0% Crit Chance. For this whole article, I am not counting armor; it will affect both equally.

This gives them a DPS of 106*(1+0*1.05)*1.002, or 106.4 DPS

What happens when they get BT? They get a bonus of 70 AD.

This gives them a DPS of 176*(1+0*1.05)*1.002, or 176.6 DPS

And when they fully stack BT? They have an additional 30 AD, for a total of 100 AD.

This gives them a DPS of 206*(1+0*1.05)*1.002, or 206.6 DPS

As for the guy who got IE instead of BT? He has a bonus 70 AD, but 25% Crit Chance and .5 Crit Damage.

This gives them a DPS of 176*(1+.25*1.55)*1.002, or 245.5 (this would have been 258.9 with the old IE)

So Gentleman Gustaf, what I'm hearing is that IE is just better than BT?

Not really; IE costs more than BT. So, to calculate the efficiency of our purchases, what we really have to look at is how much DPS we gained, and how much gold it cost us.

The empty BT gave us (176.6-106.4), or 70.2 DPS.
The full BT gave us (206.6-106.4), or 100.2 DPS
The IE gave us (245-106.4), or 138.6 DPS (152.5 for Season 2 IE).

Dividing DPS gained into their relative costs (3000 and 3830), we get the following gold costs (lower is better) for 1 DPS with these two items:

Empty BT: 42.7
Full BT: 29.9
IE: 27.6 (25.1 for Season 2 IE)

When you add PD into the mix (and assume level 16), things don't change much, we get the following DPS and Gold efficiency values

BT(empty)PD: 359 - 23
BT(full)PD: 415.3 - 18.8
IEPD: 505.7 - 16.6

Once again, IE beats out BT slightly.

Finally, when we add Last Whisper, and also assume level 18, we get the following DPS and Gold efficiency values:

BT(empty)PDLW: 457.5 - 22.6
BT(full)PDLW: 515.3 - 19.4
IEPDLW: 644.4 - 16.3

Overall, IE lost about 9% of its efficiency, and is now only slightly more efficient than BT. However, IE maintains a slight DPS advantage over BT, which grows the longer the game goes on.

But on top of that, BT has two advantages over IE.

Lifesteal

The first advantage is simple: BT has 12-18% Lifesteal, depending on how stacked it is. IE can never compete entirely with that, but you can pick up a Vamp Scepter to attempt to compensate. So let's look at our previous numbers, but also compare them to the same IE build, with an extra Vamp Scepter.

Empty BT: 176.6 - 42.7
Full BT: 206.6 - 29.9
IE: 245 - 27.6 (pre-season 3 changes, 25.1)
IE+Vamp: 258.9 - 30.4

So IE + Vamp is slightly LESS dps/gold efficient than BT (and the lifesteal amount is lower)

BT(empty)PD: 359 - 23
BT(full)PD: 415.3 - 18.8
IEPD: 505.7 - 16.6
IEPDVamp: 532 - 17.4

Once you pick up PD, IE + Vamp beats out BT slightly (although loses out in dps).

Finally, when we add Last Whisper, we get the following DPS and Gold efficiency values:

BT(empty)PDLW: 457.5 - 22.6
BT(full)PDLW: 515.3 - 19.4
IEPDLW: 644.4 - 16.3
IEPDLWVamp: 671.6 - 16.9

So the later in the game you go, the better IE gets over BT. Early on, BT actually outperforms IE, once you account for having to pick a Vamp Scepter up. But later, IE beats BTs DPS by a sizeable margin, without the risk of losing stacks. It would seem like you should choose IEvsBT depending on whether you want early game strength or late game scaling. But there is one factor which remains to be considered.

AD Scaling abilities

Almost every AD Carry (every AD Carry except for Tristana) has at least one ability which scales with AD. As such, these champions will benefit more from Bloodthirster. So, for example; let's say you are Graves.

You will use Buckshot and your Ultimate; you will gain 40 damage for each target hit with BT vs IE (16 from Buckshot, 24 from Collateral Damage). This will obviously vary from AD Carry to AD Carry, but will benefit all of them in some way. This will not surpass the late game dps gains from IE, but it can begin to mitigate them.

A new standard?

As such, I think IE is no longer a clear-cut first choice. In fact, I think it is arguably the clear frontrunner only for Tristana (no AD Scaling abilities). On almost every other AD Carry, it is a tradeoff; early game for late game strength, and affected by your AD Scaling abilities. I would also probably prefer IE on champions with weak steroids, like Ashe and maybe Caitlyn. But on most other champions, I feel the combination of bonus AD scaling and lifesteal makes BT not only a strong alternative, but the clear frontrunner.

 


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57

Comments

  • #58 Cerbereth

    At first I was all "IE is way better than bloodthirster you don't know what your talking about Gentleman Gustaf", but then you said at the bottom that Tristana, Caitlyn and Ashe are the exceptions which happen to be the 3 ad carries I play so that makes sense.

    Anyway good article.

     

  • #57 Learath2

    Would IE + VS be better then just BT?(For Vayne) Just asking as there has been alot of calculations going on over here about BT and IE :)

    Last edited by Learath2 on 1/12/2013 1:55:37 PM
  • #52 tronatula

    About the life steal, when you calculated it on IE, you forgot the crit chance, damage dealt when crit (250%) ---> somehow it got the life steal more than just 10% of vamp scepter.

  • #53 GentlemanGustaf

    Lifesteal is a direct function of your dps. Since they have pretty equivalent dps/gold values, the BT will get more lifesteal.

  • #51 IcyPhoenix

    Hey, so I made an excel sheet, to see how graves would do going LW vs IE 1st item, due to his massive base damage from Q + R.

    Assumed enemy armor at level 6, was 45 .

    Long story short, LW 1st, wins under these circumstances:

    Q + R graves combo (up close Q) + 1-2 auto attacks.

    The breaking point is 5 auto attacks, at this point, IE would match the DPS of LW 1st.

    This is because Graves is more like an AD caster early, from the massive base damage of Q + R combo. Can someone look over this, but I have double checked with friends, and it seems to be all correct.

    http://imageshack.us/a/img811/9365/lwvsiegraves.png

     

  • #55 GentlemanGustaf

    Huh. That's kind of cool. I'd want to check it myself, but I wouldn't at all be surprised.

  • #48 Dj0z

    Just wanna add, for those interested, that the more your ADC's abilities scale with AD, the better every BT gets compared to each IE and PD the enemy carry will be building instead. That of course is primarily aimed at building as an AD caster, if you aim for more AoE damage/less reliance on luck (crits) or something.

    I'm talking about champs like Varus, Graves or Draven here. for a kinda extreme example, 3 BT instead of IEBTPD gives between +70 & +130 AD, which on Draven for example, means a difference of +110.5 dmg on Q, +65 dmg on E, and between +57.2 & +286 damage on R (depending on hom many times you hit and how many targets), totaling 461 damage difference on full burst with 1 Q. Also less AA reliant and has much more lifesteal, which helps vs thormail/warden's/rammus. I think it's worth thinking about, it's up to you to find out what you need more in your current game, mobility+crits or burst+consistency. The 3 other items probably being boots, LW and GA anyways.

  • #49 MerryLane

    I personnally occasionnally build :

    BT LW GA Mercurial and a brutalizor in between. (that I sell for another BT or upgrade into BC)

    I prefer this way than rushing three BT, because a LW second is "mandatory", your build being cheap as fuck and thus rushable when you are ahead, allows you a sooner ga.

  • #50 Dj0z

    Quote from MerryLane »

    I personnally occasionnally build :

    BT LW GA Mercurial and a brutalizor in between. (that I sell for another BT or upgrade into BC)

    I prefer this way than rushing three BT, because a LW second is "mandatory", your build being cheap as fuck and thus rushable when you are ahead, allows you a sooner ga.

    I do get the bruta into late BC too, but for this post i took an easier comparison. I agree with the LW second, which right now is very comfortable to build and benefits the burst's high damage, however the most recent PBE patch notes show a sizeable cost increase on LW recipe, better watch out for that.

    Last edited by Dj0z on 1/8/2013 8:49:23 PM
  • #54 GentlemanGustaf

    Isn't that basically what I said (BT > IE depending on AD Scaling)?

     

    Last edited by GentlemanGustaf on 1/10/2013 2:26:40 AM
  • #56 Dj0z

    Quote from GentlemanGustaf »

    Isn't that basically what I said (BT > IE depending on AD Scaling)?

     

    Yep, like i said, just adding to it (was only 5 lines)

  • #44 NewPlayerRr

    I will surely agree that  IE is no longer a clear-cut first choice,but it still affers more choices on builds.What i mean? Well,for example lets say that you have to get armor pen in your second item,cuz most of the enemy team are stacking a lot of armor and if you go PD it wont be the best choice.Now lets say that this item is last whisper. A carry IE+LW  (assuming that laning phase is over)  will be way more fierce that one with BT+LW,since the lack of crit chance and empowered crit strikes are way better that a small amount of life steal(yes 12-18 is a small amount for a carry with 200 ad and no crit chance) and a bit more ad.

    Still,this is great article,Please keep it up man,

    P.S. Sry for not doing the math calculation(i suck at math :P)

     

  • #45 GentlemanGustaf

    Actually, BT + LW and IE + LW have about the same efficiency. BT is closer to even with IE in DPS/gold if you go LW than if you go PD.

    IE naturally synergizes well with PD because of the Crit Chance.

  • #46 NewPlayerRr

    You may be right, but the point of the example was that IE+LW will at least be the same as BT+LW while it has a way better potenial in the fight.

    Anyway, the point of the post was that even if IE is not a first to get item in every occasion, it still allows for more variety in the build.Still, though this is always circumstantial.

  • #47 GentlemanGustaf

    I'm honestly not sure what you're trying to say; can you spell it out?

     

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