Which sounds more fun?
- Solo Queue
- You might not get a role you're good at or like
- You might get raged at
- You might get trolled
- New strategies will be seen as trolling
- Arranged 5s
- Everybody probably has a fixed role; no role of chance
- If somebody consistently rages, you don't play with them
- If somebody is bad or trolls, you don't play with them
- You can experiment with everybody onboard
But how do you get a good, organized 5s team?
Who am I? My name is Gentleman Gustaf, and I've played on three 5s teams, and coached one sponsored team; currently, I jungle for Funk Overload. Are we the best team out there? Definitely not. Are we Challenger Tier material? Maybe with some fine-tuning. Recently, we've started to play against some pretty big-name players and teams, and most recently we beat a team pretty solidly, and after recognizing some of the names from EV (an old team we'd played against in tournaments in Season 2), realized we'd just beaten 4 of the 5 members of the same, #6 ranked Challenger team:
Does this make us better than Challenger Project? Most definitely not. But did it make us feel good? Definitely! More importantly, I hope it establishes me as knowing at least a little bit about 5s. So if you want a 5s team, what should you do?
1 - Find the right players
First things first, you shouldn't just grab your 4 Bronze friends and suddenly expect to be Gold in 5s. In fact, until you get coordination down, expect your team to be a league lower than the average league of your players. There are fewer 5s teams than there are solo queue players, and the ladder is a bit more competitive. Now, this doesn't mean everybody on your team has to be Diamond 1, but they should all be committed to improvement. The most important thing here is synergy, both in-game and out.
First, you need to be able to be friendly to each other. You don't have to be friends, but you should be able to sit in Skype for 30 minutes without yelling, and you certainly don't want long gaps of silence. If your natural communication styles sync well, your playstyles can only benefit.
Second, your playstyles need to suit each other. If your ADC likes to farm until late game, but your support wants to make plays every 15 seconds, you're going to have some trouble with communication! If your ADC mains Kog'Maw and nobody on your team plays anybody with peel? Probably going to be rough.
Finally, make sure your goals are the same. If 2 of your players just want to avoid the stress of solo queue, 1 of your player wants to make Diamond, and 2 of your players want to be in the LCS within 12 months, you're going to have issues from the get-go.
2 - Define Your Team
There's an old joke in philosophy:
Q: How many philosophers does it take to change a lightbulb?
A: Define your terms!
You don't need to pin everything down from the get go (that's the punchline of the joke), but you should have a basic idea of how everybody plays. Just like philosophers need to know what a lightbulb is (and have one) to change it, you don't want to run a protect the carry comp if your mid mains assassins and your ADC mains Ezreal.
Don't just go out and pluck a strategy from mid-air. Start off with something established; something that's seen high-level success. And don't go too broad, either. It may be easy to say 'we play AoE comps' or 'We play protect the carry comps', but what type of AoE? Are you going for late-game AoE champs, like Karthus or Vladimir? Or are you going for strong mid-game teamfight AoE, like Kennen or Rumble? Is your engage coming from the AoE, or do you want a strong engage jungler? Is your ADC part of the AoE, or using it as a screen to get free damage from behind?
What's the easiest way to do this? Well, you can try to think up all of the variables much like I did above, but I can guarantee that (at least while you're new to team play), you'll miss some. So what do I suggest? Pick a pro team whose style fits your players.
How do you know if it fits? Basically, the strategy should center around your strongest players (Doublelift's Vayne/Caitlyn come to mind), but it should accommodate your least flexible players. What do I mean by that? You want the intersection between your team comp and your least flexible players to be at least a few champions. Don't run hyper-carry if the only one your ADC runs is Vayne; if she's picked or banned, you end up running a protection comp with nothing worth protecting. Basically, your strategy should give your least flexible players TONS of options, while showcasing your strongest players' skills.
For example, our top plays Rumble. As in, 680 games with Rumble, and 90 games on his next two champions. Are his other champions bad? By no means. But if he gets Rumble, we're going to have a good game. His next best champion? Zac. Our mid loves to play AD mids. I play Zac, Nasus was one of my top champions in S2, and Lee Sin was one of the first junglers I really got in Season 3. Seems like a no-brainer that if we run a similar strategy to Cloud 9, we already have good champion overlap. Given that their bot lanes have varied wildly (from Draven Thresh to Ashe Zyra), we can assume that their strategy is relatively unrelated to what bot lane they run, so long as it offers some initiation and peel. This gives us bot lane flexibility.
3 - Be Flexible
Ok, so you probably can't just straight up copy a strategy, because the odds of having all of the same top champs aren't great, and you probably shouldn't just straight up copy a strategy, because you won't improve as quickly as if you slightly tweaked the strategy, forcing you to better understand the strategy, as opposed to just running it. Cloud 9 likes to first pick top lane a lot. They do this because they know they can swap Elise to the jungle, or Kennen mid. We don't run that much Elise or Kennen, so we have to find that flexibility elsewhere. Luckily, our mid and I love to run Jarvan, and our top and I both run a ton of Zac. So if we first pick Zac, there's our flexibility; if we pick J4 and Zac on purple side, we retain that flexibility.
Don't force your players into an established strategy; learn what makes it good and use that to inform your strategic choices.
— Mattias Lehman (@GentlemanGustaf) August 14, 2013
The same applies when you eventually branch away from your 'main' style. Don't just adopt a new style; take what works about your current style and try to use it elsewhere. Let's say you like to run a push/objective control strategy using Nasus; try Fiddlesticks for dragon control and build an AoE comp around it. You'll still be playing for objectives, but your comp is slightly different, and you'll find branching into other AoE comps easier.
4 - Leave it on the Field
Learn to critique. Too many teams fall apart because some players start pointing out other players' mistakes behind their backs. Every time the ADC tries to duel and loses, the whole team groans, and types to each other 'this is why we throw games!', but since the ADC doesn't know, he keeps making that mistake (presumably remembering the times he's won the duel and gotten something out of it. Eventually, when it does get brought up, everybody is way more upset than they should be, because they're not criticizing him for the mistake he just made, but for all previous ones as well!
So learn the right way to bring concerns up. Either talk to the player privately, or bring up (everybody's) mistakes publicly after each game. But don't gang up on one player, especially not privately, because their mistakes are going to come up eventually, and if it isn't addressed gracefully, they might leave the team or have their confidence and motivation shaken.
5 - Be Consistent, but Have Fun
Try to get games in as often as possible; you won't develop synergy from 1 game a week, but you might ruin your friendships if you lose every game painfully due to poor synergy. You know how you feel in solo queue when somebody feeds? You don't want to feel that towards a friend of yours.
If you're not having fun, take a break, maybe for the day, maybe for longer. After all, unless you're trying to go pro, you're playing 5s because it's more fun than solo queue, right?
If your players are being forced into champions they don't like, you should look into that. Are the champions just not fitting the comp? Maybe your comp could use changes. Are the champions just not strong? Maybe you need to swap roles. Does the player only play cheese champions? Maybe he's just not cut out for reasonable team comps.
Constantly re-evaluate the team to see where it's heading, and make changes before they become big problems, not after a big confrontation.
Summary
- Get 5 people who like each other enough to hang out for a little while and all play different roles
- Find a team comp, using pro play for inspiration.
- Play that team comp endlessly to build synergy
- Branch out into related team comps.
- Criticize constructively and gracefully
- Play consistently
- Have fun
Chapter 1 of a novel I'm writing: Memories
For more of my work:
-- Follow me on Facebook or Youtube or Twitter for updates on all of my new articles, videos, and streaming.
-- Find my personal writing project here!
-- Find old posts @ the RoG forums and new posts every Wednesday (3 PM) and Sunday (9 AM).
one of the big things that comes up on ranked teams I have played with is designating a shot caller. It's almost always better for people to make a mistake together than to have everyone just do whatbthatbthink is best. Per game communication is important, but in game communication is essential to cohesion.
Very useful. I like the fact to base your team to other lcs teams
1. Having an ADC who likes to farm and a support who likes to fight is completely a matter of if the support is making correct decisions. If he's not and he's getting you killed, then you address the matter and if they're unable to cope you find new players. If he's getting kills everytime he goes in, farming is the same if you're killing creeps or if you're killing heroes.
2. The only strategy that works in league is four-protect-one. It's actually why the metagame is so stale.
3. Once again, the only strategy is 4P1, it really makes little difference on the heroes that all go into a combination to protect one. You can make just about any heroes work, provided you're not fighting an uphill battle in terms of power picks. You can't pick into counters and expect to win, but very few heroes outright counter others in this game.
4. Most players will not be capable of coping with criticism, finding talented players is simply finding ones whom can at the very least listen and respond to criticism without blowing their load.
5. Winning is fun, if you've brought together a strong team you'll win, and thus have fun. One thing to note is there are players who really look to win and those who look to have fun, you can obviously tell which one I am. Don't mix them together in a team, it'll blow up in your face.
It's hard to judge whether those decisions are correct or not when your ADC is positioned to do something entirely different, or doesn't respond quickly enough, consistently.
Dive comps? AoE comps? Not to mention the difference of early and mid-game strategies?
I disagree, people who can respond to criticism aren't as rare as you think.
You're not going to win EVERY game until you are among the best teams. Every team will eventually equalize at about 50%, except perhaps Challenger Tier teams (not enough opponents at their level means the system will match them up consistently with lower skill opponents). You have to be able to still be happy when you lose.
But on top of that, some 5s teams aren't going to be Challenger Tier; they might just be 5 players who want to play without the stress of solo queue.
The support's decision to go in should always depend on the positioning of the ADC. Even if something is completely out of position, if you're not in position to exploit it doesn't matter.
All of these compositions all come back to the 4p1 strategy. There actually have been some successful 2 ADC comps which aren't 4p1s, but in essence they're not widespread enough to be successful mainstream yet.
We'll just have to disagree here, but essentially 95% of the people I run into feel comments that will improve their play if they follow take them as personal insults culminating in arguments or instant 'reported+muted' reactions.
There are people who play to win and people who play to play. You can easily identify the players in a random ranked draft, the ones who actively think about their picks/bans are playing to win and the ones who pick their favorite kat mid every game are simply playing to play.
It's just important to segregate these types of players as they don't tend to mix well.
This is another superb article by Gentleman Gustaf! Ranked 5s always seemed to me the most "hardcore" and best way to learn and play the game.
Our team has played since last year, we participated in a local lan event, got crushed, did some roster changes, got crushed and did some swapping of roles. Now we are doing fairly well considering our players are plat/gold in soloque and we can win teams who are all diamond in soloQ. Our track record has not been the best but our latest two go4LoL attempts were far better than the ones we did earlier in the year. We seem to have a good synergy within our team but we are still struggling with some aspects like lvl1 and teamcomps...
I am the midlaner for our team and I love to play farm-heavy assassins. Khazix was my go-to pick but his farming got heavily nerfed so I had to drop him for a while. I changed to kassadin but diamond1 guys know how to shut him down with laneswaps far too well. Now I'm rolling zed with TP and it's working fairly well. I fee that I'm not doing well even if I end up with 5-0-3 score at the end of the game just because I went 0-0-0 in lane. I play very cautiously in mid even if my matchup is supposedly beneficial for me. I never play soloQ (mainly because 1:5 chance of getting mid) and I worry that my team looks down on me because I never soloQ. I never have trouble staying alive in mid against my opponent even if he's challenger and I know lane mechanics far better than my gold elo suggests. Do you think I can make it as a midlaner of a semi-competent team even if I never do soloQ?
PS. Do you think it's a sign of a bad team if you can't win games early and only thrive in teamfights?
I think it's slightly worrying, but not the sign of a bad team. It's a sign of good synergy, but lower individual skill/consistently. I've been on many teams with that problem, and I'd much rather have that problem (easily improved through practice) than poor synergy.
I think the main issue why we can't close things up fast enough is the fact that our main intiator plays too much soloQ and doesn't rely on us following up if he goes deep, especially if we are ahead. Our botlane usually wins their lane because they are just really good together but we can't push our advantage at all and get outmaneuvered easily. The difference between those diamond and challenger teams and us is that they know where to go and what to do. We can take dragons and push some outer turrets but even with complete vision control we can't seem to wrap things up
It often feels that after an evening practice games we haven't learned much of anything relating to our game knowledge and wrapping things up. Even if we get 3-0 feed to me as zed early or 4-0 twitch down bot the game goes up to 35 minutes. Maybe we play even too low risk sometimes but it feels bad to throw away a lead with a sloppy baron fight after a great start so we just wait around for enemy mistake
It's even worse if enemies outmaneuver us early and we get just totally destroyed in gold despite kills being even. Getting that 5 man shockwave into bullet time doesn't mean much if you are pushed up to your nexus in 25 minutes yaknow... (happened to us). It was the first teamfight of the match and we woulda won it if it had happened before we lost every objective on the map. Is there a way to learn how to not get outmaneuvered as a team? We try to watch pro games but they seem to respect their opponents much more and dont make such ballsy plays as our enemies do
I love your articles gustaf and this one is is absolutely my favourite because my team has seriously needed this sort of self aware understanding. you've certainly help quantify and verbalizewhat ive felt we needed for a long time, but didnt have the exact ability to clarify and say it as well as you did. so thanx for the great read and I wish us both luck on the fields of justice ;D!
Is it just me or did you repost this again? It's the third time I see this posted on the top of the home page.
^ this
Occasionally, we have news items cover posts up for most of the time they're up; there was an empty slot today, so I reposted it to give it actual top time.
(Not being a fanboy huehue) Would be nice to play a game with you sometime, I might learn new things, not sure when you're on.
FUNK OVERLOAD OR DIE!
This article is exactly what i need, well done!
Although you could have made a special section of shotcalling, specially who and how one should call things.
Hey Gustaf !
I had a team lately, i was the jungler, and all the player were diamond. But i had some issues about this team... My team always found an excuse about my play, maybe i did some things wrong, i will not debate about it, but my biggest problem was the communicative problem... I'm shy, and stress a lot when we play too seriously, and i hate this so much. I don't know if you got some tips, even more, because i'm jungler, and they wanted me to "lead", even if i was not this kind of player.
Thanks! (and apologize for my English)
PS : BTW, i'm training with friend who are a little worse than me, as a support, i try to lead, i have less stress, maybe it will helps me.
Believe it or not, I was in this situation recently. My first piece of advice would be to take their criticism to heart; it will make you a better player, since they're all Diamond.
But for some more specific thoughts:
"Don't run hyper-carry if the only one your ADC runs is Vayne; if she's picked or Vayne, you end up running a protection comp with nothing worth protecting."
....uh?
picked or banned?