Farewell to Season 2: Surge

Here's Lookin' At You

When Season 2 rolled around they brought out a new summoner spell, Surge. Remember that spell? It sure is not popular! In todays' meta, on-hit effects, attack-speed, and trying to get in a lot of auto attacks don't fit, and they haven't for a long time. Also, who uses both attack speed and AP? Hardly anyone. Turn this thing on and you get huge. It's a red alarm that more damage is being dealt, instead of simply a sound effect and muted visible effect, like when Irelia's W turns on. Even Malph's W has a smaller visible effect.

The crazy thing is that we don't know for sure if they'll even keep it!

 

So in memory or preparation, let's do some number crunching on the AP for everyone's favorite (hah) summoner spell, Surge! Here's a chart showing the number of bonus AP gained for 12 seconds when using Surge, with Ignite compared next to it.

Level Surge AP Bonus Surge AP Bonus with mastery Total Ignite Damage
1 10 11 70
2 14 15.4 90
3 18 19.8 110
4 22 24.2 130
5 26 28.6 150
6 30 33 170
7 34 37.4 190
8 38 41.8 210
9 42 46.2 230
10 46 50.6 250
11 50 55 270
12 54 59.4 290
13 58 63.8 310
14 62 68.2 330
15 66 72.6 350
16 70 77 370
17 74 81.4 390
18 78 85.8 410

 

Strictly AP (Examples: Anivia and Karthus)

For starters the ratio of AP to damage starts at 6.36 at level 1 and ends at 4.78, assuming you got the offensive mastery, and you should if you're taking this ability. At level 18 then, to get the damage equivalent of an ignite you need to have 4.78 points of damage per AP showing. The ratios will really need to stack with 12 seconds, then, eh? And that's at level 18! Again, if you use spells with the equivalent of 4.78 AP in ratios within 12 seconds, you will equal 410 damage. At a lower level it's even harsher.  Oh, and ignite's damage is true damage, and it also reduces healing effects for 5 seconds. So, add a percentage on top of that because your magic damage will be reduced.

A nicely landed Anivia Q and E have 1.0 AP. That's just 2. Her AOE has .25. Doesn't seem worth it, does it? If her Q hits two people perfectly, that's still 3.25. Maybe we should think AOE instead.

Karthus' ult has .6. If he hits all 5, that's 3. His AOE E has .25, and his Q is .6 single target and .3 two targets. At level 6 the ratio is 5.15. This means if he ults 5 people after he surges, he needs to get in just 2.15 more AP ratio's worth of damage. That's 9 ticks of his E, 4 single large Q's, or 7 targets total in a multi-hit lay waste within 12 seconds, or, say, 2 ticks of Defile on two people plus 2 lay wastes on 2 people. (2 x 2 x .25) + (.3 x 2 x 2). The more it surpasses it, the more Surge helps.

Remember to add 10-50% for all of the MR that reduces the damage done. If you don't have the penetration, it just isn't going to work.

Oh, and we have to get Karthus as our example to even make it work. Most AP champs do not have this kind of opportunity to repeat a lot aoe spells in 12 seconds. Cassiopeia might also work...

Strictly Attack Speed (Example: Graves)

With the mastery, you get 40% attack speed for the 12 seconds. That's a big boost. Graves' E gives him 40-80% from levels 1-5 for 5 seconds. Graves' base attack speed is .638 the addition of 40% AS makes for an increase of .255 attacks per seconds. At 12 seconds, if he is attacking nonstop the whole time (unlikely), he'll get three full additional attacks. Some nice footwork and he'll get two more. This doesn't take into the account the ability to move and shoot as AS gives you, which is also nice, but remember, we're comparing it to a ignite, which does not require us to stay.

At level 1, you have to deal more than 70 damage with your additional auto-attacks. At level 18, it has to be more than 410.

Pretty much junk.

Both (Examples: Corki and Jax)

Unlike Graves, Corki has some magic spells he'll be using. If he gets out one bomb and two non-big one missiles on two people each, that's (.5 x 1) + (.3 x 2 x 2) for 1.7 x the AP given from Surge. At level 6, ignite is 170, and Surge is 33. 33 x 1.7 for 56.1 extra magic damage. That's only 114 extra damage from auto-attacks he'd have to get in.

Jax's magic damage is all single target. Q, W, and E have AP ratios of .6, .6, and .7. At level 6, if Jax uses all of them and gets two of his third explosive hits in, that's 2.6 x 33 for 85.8. He'd have to get an extra 84 damage off of auto-attacks to equal an ignite.

Remember though: no healing reduction and the damage isn't true, it's facing armor and MR.

Why you don't take Surge Unless You're Trolling

Surge isn't good because it relies heavily on continued damage for it to be effective. Most fights are hit and run, not outright spammed damage. Few champions use AP and attack speed both. Few times can you manage to get enough AP use to get an ignite off. Under AOE circumstances, Surge will deal more damage in team fights. Why pick the right champ and play harder to capitalize on it? And what about the fact that most of the game isn't teamfights?

So yeah, in case you were wondering: Surge his horrible. This is why.

I seriously ask: was this ability tested? Was the math done on it? What were they thinking?

Best,
Old Man Eyebrows

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107

Comments

  • Basinator's avatar
    Baron Nashor
    • Posts: 551
    #73 Basinator Posted 11/3/2012 8:14:53 AM

    IMHO, there are even two other big problems with Surge:

    - You can die before the 12 seconds have been used (can happen quite suddenly)

    - It is extremly weak during laning while I tested it. The problem is, even on champs like Jax, that you won't fight 12 fucking seconds. If you aren't facing a tank, one of you will be dead in 5 seconds. But not only this!

    During laning it is hard to differ from what is poking and what will be a larger fight. Not to mention you can run away way easier back to your towers. Especially after you saw the enemy just got his Bloodlust enabled (WC3 insider).

    That's being said, I had the feeling that Jax with Surge was stronger than many of my enemies thought and I might won some fights with it because it has - as you wrote in the article - quite a continous effect and might change some match ups.

     

    What could Surge make viable?

    - Maybe branch spells each for AS/AD/AP

    - The duration is way too long. The duration needs to be (IMHO) shortened by a lot, in return the buff itself should be way stronger as well.

  • ordosan's avatar
    Wraith
    • Posts: 136
    #69 ordosan Posted 11/2/2012 8:56:01 AM

    i take it on 2 people. ap kog and ap sion. ap kog cuz i need the atack speed if someone gets close. works great with bio-arcane.(hit harder on mundo with ap then ad kog,lol) and sion because as a last item i get a nashors to work with the ad e gives and his ult, along with ap still. and surge still gives me attack speed for my ult,nashors combo to be usefull. and the ap to make my shield stun a little stronger.

  • Katrex's avatar
    Caster Minion
    • Posts: 30
    #68 Katrex Posted 11/1/2012 9:40:05 PM

    core on hybrid kayle, finding attackspeed on ap builds is hard. 

  • drkmgic's avatar
    Super Minion
    • Posts: 84
    #58 drkmgic Posted 11/1/2012 3:09:29 PM

    i though they said that they will make on hit champions more viable next season, so maybe surge will be chosen more often than the previous season

  • jim1608's avatar
    Super Minion
    • Posts: 112
    #55 jim1608 Posted 11/1/2012 1:14:48 PM

    I use this on Volibear like... always, and I usually get fed as hell on my games. 15/3/27 my last game...

    Most people don't understand that as long as you have your ult, AS is all you need to deal a lot of damage and most forget to consider the fact that his 0,3 AP ratio that seems so weak easily becomes a 3,0 ratio on a single enemy if you get 10 hits (less than 1 attack per second). I usually have 40% CDR, 1,7 AS with Surge (1,4 without and frenzy) and all the rest is tank items. You will DPS so hard you can solo Top lane AND the jungler at the same time and go away with half your health and one or two kills...

    If you have LolReplay try searching for JimMaru and see some of my Volibear games... Though it's mostly normal games, I usually get a 5~7 KDA with Surge Voli (with AP, AP bruiser and Full tank builds).

  • Rhakzor's avatar
    Wraith
    • Posts: 127
    #52 Rhakzor Posted 11/1/2012 11:34:33 AM

    I belive they will buff the spell. Increase the as and ap to make it work for champions like Jax, Fizz or Poppy.

  • pnsteva's avatar
    Caster Minion
    • Posts: 23
    #34 pnsteva Posted 10/31/2012 4:14:10 PM

    "I seriously ask: was this ability tested?"  Probably most of us remember when Vayne came out. She was so OP that they had to nerf all of her skills, multiple times some of them. Latest came out Rengar, only champion that has been auto ban on world championship. This was only two examples, but there were much more of them.  From my experience RIOT like to do something and then see what happen in real games. Sometimes they forgot to change it later, like it was with surge probably.

  • Caster Minion
    • Posts: 25
    #35 fydorm Posted 10/31/2012 4:38:20 PM

    Actually, neither Rengar nor Syndra were allowed in the world championship. This had nothing to do with how OP they were, this was simply because they were so new Riot did not feel players had enough time to incorporate them into their planning.

  • pnsteva's avatar
    Caster Minion
    • Posts: 23
    #51 pnsteva Posted 11/1/2012 5:10:42 AM

    That is probably the way RIOT think it the best, not to allow new champions to be played on tournament and i agree with it. But if u read what Scara said: 4 weeks before world championship they started to practice with Rengar in jungle. After two weeks or two weeks before main event RIOT said Rengar will be auto banned on tournament, and that hurt them allot. Vayne dominated in season 1 tournament with quadra kill in every game. Jayce broke season 2 tournament (could bet Rengar would do the same) with a total domination on top lane and monstrous poke/disengage in team fights. That were some example's on tournaments where bad balanced champion can caused great dmg. From perspective of a regular player (me), when Vayne came out, for two weeks it was impossible to win a game against her, because she would kill u in three shots no matter what items u have, and that was not fun at all. All this had been said to agree with Old man eyebrow's when he asked question (this is the main point of reply): Was this ability (champion or w/e) tested? Not nearly enough for sure !  Now not to be only talking bad about RIOT, great stuff is that game is constantly changing a lot and when they see that mistake has been made, correction is coming in upcoming patches. Justice is slow but attainable :)

    Last edited by pnsteva on 11/1/2012 5:21:00 AM
  • ordosan's avatar
    Wraith
    • Posts: 136
    #70 ordosan Posted 11/2/2012 8:57:48 AM

    ya everything from rengar past was banned. it was most likely do to the asian countries not having those last few patches. or only having just gotten rengars

  • miaolong's avatar
    Wraith
    • Posts: 156
    #30 miaolong Posted 10/31/2012 11:07:55 AM

    It would be good for backdooring if you didn't have to give up flash or teleport to take it. Imagine a Yi demolishing a tower 40% faster. 

     

     

    But then you remember to 270 sec cooldown or whatnot, and you laugh.

  • Misticaltom's avatar
    Turret
    • Posts: 851
    #29 Misticaltom Posted 10/31/2012 10:14:54 AM

    You forgot to talk about Udyr! 

    I got Surge early on as Udyr, as I felt it would be awesome compared to ghost, and it was! It was like a more passive version of smite!

     

     

    Then I needed flash to catch people, and stopped using it.

  • somefatkid's avatar
    Melee Minion
    • Posts: 6
    #28 somefatkid Posted 10/31/2012 9:27:12 AM

    Surge is alright on ap kog. Kog should never be close enough to use an ignite or exhaust safely. So it really only leaves you with heal, ghost, teleport cleanse and surge. If the enemy team lacks hard stuns and you think you wont need ghost then surge actually gives kog more on hit damage which could swing a fight, but outside of this character surge is terrible.

  • sgtcolon's avatar
    Vilemaw
    • Posts: 471
    #23 sgtcolon Posted 10/31/2012 2:33:19 AM

    I agree that Surge is may be too niche, but it is not flat out useless across the board as you imply. As stated, there are champs where it is viable (situational, but viable). I don't think Kayle or Jax really benefit from it as much as Teemo/Kog'Maw though. It is an excellent spell on Kog'Maw, throughout the game, whether he builds AD or 'on-hit' because not only does he scale that well with AS and the duration of surge and his W are similar, but crucially, the AP boost from Surge alone is enough to add 1% of HP damage to his W. That scales waaaay better than Ignite, particularly on a champion that will never be in range to even use Ignite unless he messes up.

  • Snuffrix's avatar
    Melee Minion
    • Posts: 11
    #24 Snuffrix Posted 10/31/2012 7:59:23 AM

    The damage is less than you think. 1% HP isn't a lot when Kog could take cleanse to keep himself attacking chunking people for 1/5 of their hp each attack late game anyway.

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