Here's Lookin' At You
When Season 2 rolled around they brought out a new summoner spell, Surge. Remember that spell? It sure is not popular! In todays' meta, on-hit effects, attack-speed, and trying to get in a lot of auto attacks don't fit, and they haven't for a long time. Also, who uses both attack speed and AP? Hardly anyone. Turn this thing on and you get huge. It's a red alarm that more damage is being dealt, instead of simply a sound effect and muted visible effect, like when Irelia's W turns on. Even Malph's W has a smaller visible effect.
The crazy thing is that we don't know for sure if they'll even keep it!
So in memory or preparation, let's do some number crunching on the AP for everyone's favorite (hah) summoner spell, Surge! Here's a chart showing the number of bonus AP gained for 12 seconds when using Surge, with Ignite compared next to it.
| Level | Surge AP Bonus | Surge AP Bonus with mastery | Total Ignite Damage |
| 1 | 10 | 11 | 70 |
| 2 | 14 | 15.4 | 90 |
| 3 | 18 | 19.8 | 110 |
| 4 | 22 | 24.2 | 130 |
| 5 | 26 | 28.6 | 150 |
| 6 | 30 | 33 | 170 |
| 7 | 34 | 37.4 | 190 |
| 8 | 38 | 41.8 | 210 |
| 9 | 42 | 46.2 | 230 |
| 10 | 46 | 50.6 | 250 |
| 11 | 50 | 55 | 270 |
| 12 | 54 | 59.4 | 290 |
| 13 | 58 | 63.8 | 310 |
| 14 | 62 | 68.2 | 330 |
| 15 | 66 | 72.6 | 350 |
| 16 | 70 | 77 | 370 |
| 17 | 74 | 81.4 | 390 |
| 18 | 78 | 85.8 | 410 |
Strictly AP (Examples: Anivia and Karthus)
For starters the ratio of AP to damage starts at 6.36 at level 1 and ends at 4.78, assuming you got the offensive mastery, and you should if you're taking this ability. At level 18 then, to get the damage equivalent of an ignite you need to have 4.78 points of damage per AP showing. The ratios will really need to stack with 12 seconds, then, eh? And that's at level 18! Again, if you use spells with the equivalent of 4.78 AP in ratios within 12 seconds, you will equal 410 damage. At a lower level it's even harsher. Oh, and ignite's damage is true damage, and it also reduces healing effects for 5 seconds. So, add a percentage on top of that because your magic damage will be reduced.
A nicely landed Anivia Q and E have 1.0 AP. That's just 2. Her AOE has .25. Doesn't seem worth it, does it? If her Q hits two people perfectly, that's still 3.25. Maybe we should think AOE instead.
Karthus' ult has .6. If he hits all 5, that's 3. His AOE E has .25, and his Q is .6 single target and .3 two targets. At level 6 the ratio is 5.15. This means if he ults 5 people after he surges, he needs to get in just 2.15 more AP ratio's worth of damage. That's 9 ticks of his E, 4 single large Q's, or 7 targets total in a multi-hit lay waste within 12 seconds, or, say, 2 ticks of Defile on two people plus 2 lay wastes on 2 people. (2 x 2 x .25) + (.3 x 2 x 2). The more it surpasses it, the more Surge helps.
Remember to add 10-50% for all of the MR that reduces the damage done. If you don't have the penetration, it just isn't going to work.
Oh, and we have to get Karthus as our example to even make it work. Most AP champs do not have this kind of opportunity to repeat a lot aoe spells in 12 seconds. Cassiopeia might also work...
Strictly Attack Speed (Example: Graves)
With the mastery, you get 40% attack speed for the 12 seconds. That's a big boost. Graves' E gives him 40-80% from levels 1-5 for 5 seconds. Graves' base attack speed is .638 the addition of 40% AS makes for an increase of .255 attacks per seconds. At 12 seconds, if he is attacking nonstop the whole time (unlikely), he'll get three full additional attacks. Some nice footwork and he'll get two more. This doesn't take into the account the ability to move and shoot as AS gives you, which is also nice, but remember, we're comparing it to a ignite, which does not require us to stay.
At level 1, you have to deal more than 70 damage with your additional auto-attacks. At level 18, it has to be more than 410.
Pretty much junk.
Both (Examples: Corki and Jax)
Unlike Graves, Corki has some magic spells he'll be using. If he gets out one bomb and two non-big one missiles on two people each, that's (.5 x 1) + (.3 x 2 x 2) for 1.7 x the AP given from Surge. At level 6, ignite is 170, and Surge is 33. 33 x 1.7 for 56.1 extra magic damage. That's only 114 extra damage from auto-attacks he'd have to get in.
Jax's magic damage is all single target. Q, W, and E have AP ratios of .6, .6, and .7. At level 6, if Jax uses all of them and gets two of his third explosive hits in, that's 2.6 x 33 for 85.8. He'd have to get an extra 84 damage off of auto-attacks to equal an ignite.
Remember though: no healing reduction and the damage isn't true, it's facing armor and MR.
Why you don't take Surge Unless You're Trolling
Surge isn't good because it relies heavily on continued damage for it to be effective. Most fights are hit and run, not outright spammed damage. Few champions use AP and attack speed both. Few times can you manage to get enough AP use to get an ignite off. Under AOE circumstances, Surge will deal more damage in team fights. Why pick the right champ and play harder to capitalize on it? And what about the fact that most of the game isn't teamfights?
So yeah, in case you were wondering: Surge his horrible. This is why.
I seriously ask: was this ability tested? Was the math done on it? What were they thinking?
Best,
Old Man Eyebrows
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Posted 10/30/2012 7:15:41 PMI think a big thing you miss is that the AS boost really helps out with on-hit effects, one of the big ones being lifesteal. Not to say this makes surge great, but ignite can't keep you alive. Surge has given me enough AS on AD carries in the early stages of the game to win fights just because I had a vampiric scepter. However, it must be said, I used surge when I was trolling, but trolling to win. Still, ignite goes along with burst, and surge goes along with sustained damage, which I think was the intention.
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Posted 10/31/2012 2:37:52 PMhe mentioned surge working and being created for on hit's, have you even read the post?
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Posted 10/30/2012 7:11:30 PMOk, you've showed the math for Graves/Corki... What about MF, Tristana or Varus... You know... AD carries who have grevious wounds and therefore don't require ignite for the DeBuff... These 3 also have AP ratios... 2 of these champions have on-hit effects...
I thank you for the maths you did, at least you raised a good example with Corki/Jax... But you've left quite a lot un-answered, and that makes the spell look bad... It's already under-rated and mis-understood, you kinda just made matters worse by not including MF/Varus or Tristana in your AD carry examples... Or for that matter, Cho'gath / Diana / Elise or Fizz... As mages...
Maybe GentlemanGustaf would have elaborated better, I mean... He said he was planning to write an article in the future explaining the synergy between Kog'maw or Varus with Surge... Did you read his article and steal his idea? Because... Yea, I'm kinda annoyed... I feel he would have done Surge more justice by using better examples... But, oppotunity lost? I hope he still writes his article dispite the fact that it will probably come to a different conclusion than this one...
http://www.reignofgaming.net/blogs/a-different-view/gentleman-gustaf/22100-breaking-the-meta-ad-carry-builds-pt-3-trinity
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Posted 10/30/2012 8:25:29 PMCorki and Jax have AP ratios. This isn't especially in-depth, but the fact that Ignite damage is true and ignores resistances makes it add significantly more damage in most scenarios, even ignoring the added AD and AP from the summoner spell mastery.
Will Surge pull ahead if you assume you get full use out of it for 12 seconds? Probably, but that's an unrealistic scenario for most of the game, and is even rare in late-game team fights.
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Posted 10/30/2012 8:29:28 PMCrossover is inevitable, and if he says he'll do it, he'll do it.
There are 105 champions in the game. I'm not gonna analyze every single one of them for the spell. I'm going to use a few examples to make a few general points. Fortunately, our illustrious commenters will fill in some blanks.
I still maintain that for the AP section, I drove the point home--Karthus hits more aoe and rapidfire AP damage than almost anyone, which is a big reason he is a top and consistently picked mid. That it almost isn't good on him tells you a lot about what will happen if you do the analysis on others.
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Posted 10/31/2012 3:59:19 PMOne major factor that you didn't mention about Karthus is the fact that 9/10 times, Karthus will build glass-cannon and try to die in a suitable position in a team-fight, attempting to apply as much damage as possible with Defile... Then, at the end of his Passive (Or sometimes at the start) he'll cast his Ult... This means that the majority of Karthus' damage in a team-fight will happen when he's already dead... He casts his Ult while dead so that it cannot be interupted... Early game this may not be the case, but in a real team-fight, the Ult will almost always be cast when he's dead... If he's Dead, he doesn't receive the AP bonus from Surge... So yes, Karthus has some of the best AP ratios in the game, therefore he's more likely to achieve that 410 damage target... But half of his damage is dealt while dead... He's very unlikely to remain alive for the full duration... Also, he doesn't benefit from AS at all, infact I'd go as far as saying that he is the only champion who doesn't benefit at all from AS... Therefore I honestly believe he was a terrible example...
Similarly, you could have easily substituted Graves for MF/Varus/Kog... Graves is a typical carry, but he has no on-hit effects or AP ratios... He was a decent example, but you should have included one of these other champions alongside Graves, to give a less biased review... Show how it CAN be used effectively, have a small list of champions who benefit from both AS and AP...
I understand that their are 105 Champions and you can't go through every single scenario, but just having 2 more examples would have gone a long way towards helping people realize how good Surge CAN be in certain situations... Provide data from both sides of the argument etc...
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Posted 10/30/2012 7:08:35 PMIt's about as useless as Rally was, and was being made to take over that slot
The biggest problem it has is the visual effect just screams GTFO. And that's exactly what your target will do. .
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Posted 10/30/2012 8:26:34 PMYeah, I noted that at the beginning. The effect is cool visually but it is way more powerful and psychological than other, similar effects.
There we go, that's why to take it. Using it as a bluff.
(Don't take it.)
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Posted 10/30/2012 7:08:19 PMI'm not going to say Surge is a good summoner spell. But your analysis is trash. "Pretty much junk." is all you say in regard to Graves using Surge for the Attack Speed. At level 18, a fed AD Carry can be critting for over 1000, meaning the boost from Surge has a huge advantage over ignite. That doesn't mean you should take Surge, but at least try to think before you write, okay?
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Posted 10/30/2012 6:38:48 PMI think what makes surge less viable off a choice than Ignite is usually that IF you activate it the effect that you use it is shown extremely obviously. This usually leads to people simply kiting you until the effect wears off. Taking another summoner just to make use of surge (ghost) is kinda expensive and makes it really hard to use, since you waste two summoners for one.
On the other hand, ignite goes into effect immediately AND is even usefull when it's down (giving you 5 AP/AD).
Champs surge might be viable on would be something that's harder to kite and uses AS/AP - so it's pretty much only Poppy and Kayle (on the top of my head) but both are quite unpopular.
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Posted 10/30/2012 6:14:21 PMSurge is good on Kayle/ teemo/Jax. That's about it. Altho I don't take it over ignite. I take both.
Surge+Ignite as Kayle is usually an Easy first blood.
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Posted 10/30/2012 7:06:52 PMSurge/Ignite as Kayle is a great way to be a free kill whenever your ult is down, and sometimes even when it's up.
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Posted 10/30/2012 7:54:59 PMIts niche spell, that fits a small-medium category of champs. I think we should have more spells like it honestly.
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Posted 10/30/2012 6:11:40 PMI think your examples of people who use both are flawed. More accurate examples would be Fizz, Elise, and Diana, or even Varus or Miss Fortune.
Also, Trojan Horsing.
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Posted 10/30/2012 7:02:05 PMlol @ trojan horsing
how to climb elo
"don't look down"