A lot of supports rushing Philosopher’s Stone and yet, in the LCS, we about never see supports build it. Today I’m going to take a look at all the reasons why hurring a Philosopher’s Stone is a bad idea.
What a stone gets you
Supports usually build Philosopher’s Stone because they want the gold regen and they want the regen in lane for more spells, and they think it will help them buy more wards.
If you start a rejuv bead, it takes two and a half minutes to get as much health back as it does from a pot. If you start a charm, it takes two minutes and 35 seconds to get all the mana back from a pot.
Once you get to Philosopher’s Stone this changes--for mana, it takes 55 seconds to recover a mana pot, and it takes about a minute and 50 to get back a health pot.
A stone costs 700 gold, which equals twenty potions. It also covers the cost of a potion every 70 seconds after you buy it with it’s Gold per 10. If you get a stone at, say, 10 minutes, then own it for another twenty after that, that’s 100 gold for all your regen needs!
But it doesn’t work that way. Even most Stone buyers will buy potions before completing it, because you know that a charm or bead won’t cover all your needs--even if you buy charm, you’ll need health pots. Most buy two or three at the beginning of the game.
And do you need it? How often do you back to base because of running low on mana? Health, due to sustained sieging and poking? How often do you back to base because you’re out of wards or lost a lot of health due to a gank or an all-in or a death (either side)? All those are more likely.
Stone works best on poking or mana hungry supports, and not all supports are created equally mana hungry. Leona only really occasionally uses her E to try to go in. If it misses, she won’t use her Q. It costs 60 mana. She'll get it back within a minute. How often will there be a real opportunity to use it every two minion waves?
Janna is deceptively not mana hungry. Why? Because her ult has a long cooldown, her Q has a moderate cooldown, and her W is often too dangerous to use. Often, Janna’s do not run out of mana, and even more often is when they don’t need to go back because of it. If they managed to use it all without dying, the issue is she was getting a lot of assists or fending off a lot of ganks or kill attempts. If she had to use all those spells, a Stone alone won’t help--pots would work better. And it’s not your fault anyway--it’s your carry’s for getting hit by Nami’s Q for the fourth time in a row or your mid or jungler for not counterganking or following.
At a certain point, even pokey champs like Lulu won’t be able to poke much later in the game--a Q won’t really hurt or cause sustain issues, and she’ll want to stay in the back. And yet a stone doesn’t get purchased ‘til the late party of early game! Then it sits, doing almost nothing in half of games during mid or late.
Sometimes it can be useful on her, but not every game demands it. And remember, there are still pots.
Philosopher’s Stone and warding
A lane is not well-warded with only one ward. You can get away with having only one ward, or heck, even zero, but that’s only if the other jungler is getting owned, or you already snowballed the lane. This is generally not the case and you shouldn’t assume so. A lane is decently covered with two wards, and fully with three. There’s river / dragon, tribush, and brushes.
Ideally, you’ll use a couple at a time and keep your eyes on the minimap and face in the bush for gaps. If you’re purple and they know you warded river, they’ll come through the bush or the tribush, and you’ll be ready for sudden appearances.
If you buy only consumbables you’ll have at least four wards (not including the small one), and that gives you roughly 6 minutes of coverage.
In 6 minutes, if you have 21 GP10 total, you’ll get 726 gold from passive generation. Even if don’t get a single creep or assist, you’ll have about enough money for a Ruby Crystal, 3 more wards and a pot. In another 475, which only takes about four minutes, you can get a
sightstone. Another 600 is Ruby Sightstone.
A Philosopher’s Stone costs 700. It pays for itself after 23 minutes and twenty seconds. It doesn’t actually help you buy wards because it you’re paying 700 gold for it in the first place.
And, the thing Sightstone-haters forget: you can replace if someone pinks you or if you need to “move” a ward. You’re taking a stack out each time; it buys you more vision time than two wards does, because two wards covers decently for 3 minutes, but a sightstone does for 6.
So, a Philo Stone build with both stones and boots costs 1975 for regular stone and 2575 for ruby. If you buy a Philosopher’s Stone, that’s two wards every minute, and you’ve spent 700 already. Plus you will have to buy more regular wards to depend on, so you won’t be finishing your sightstone until later.
A build without Philosopher’s Stone that has Sightstone and boots costs 1275 on regular stone and 1875 on Ruby, and will have purchased fewer regular wards on the way there.
One other thing: in a teamfight, what else can a support use besides defensive stats? Cooldown reduction. And most supports buy a Kindlegem. That costs 850, a little more than Philosopher’s Stone. That’s why it is a very common third item.
Also, if you want to be a boss support, having 5 or more out a time is very boss, especially when your team knows what to do with it. Five wards every three minutes is much easier to pay with a Ruby Sightstone--and you get to that point more quickly
TLDR: in this article, Eyebrows points out why high-level players go straight to Sightstone and usually do not get a Philosopher’s Stone first.
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I would garen-tee that if supports or low or mid elo would buy more wards (maybe even to the extent of pro LCS players) they would skyrocket in elo. No one knows how to play support. No one even knows what a support player is. A support player is a dedicated player to control vision. That is there job. There job isn't to get 0 cs or "support" the team. Next time your stuck with support try playing the actual support game. You'll realize that with superior vision your allies will find it very hard to make mistakes. And you'll be surprised that your teammates will actually be able to take advantages with your strong vision.
At low elo most players hardly use their minimap and don't understand movement patterns. You can ward the top half of the map and the mid laner will still go to the bot lane to farm because he sees 3 minions more over there.
There are players who profit from the vision and some deaths won't happen but that a mostly 4-5 men ambushes...
Because in DOTA you have 3 supports in high-level play?
That's entirely possible in LoL, too. You could even do 2 junglers (but it functions more like having 2 players roaming around ganking and clearing camps). It's not seen very often, but it works: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Kx5Ut2ArI8
Otherwise, supports in DOTA can be very similar to those in LoL (at least in pubs, i.e. the majority of the playerbase). Some are the jungle/gank/snowball type as you said, and some stay in lane to babysit the carry. It's not unheard of for a DOTA support to have nothing but a wand and boots
i remember having wand and boots was a good game on cm!
I feel this article is really misleading and would 'cause people in the lower tiers like myself to pick up bad habits. Philo stone may not always be necessary but I'd wager 8 times out of 10 you should get it anyways. All in all I disagree with your "analysis." I value the opinion of pros more.
You didn't really read his post correctly. Hell, you didn't even read his TL;DR correctly. Pls sthawp.
I thought his point was well thought out and explained. Unlike yours:/ you need to learn to think for yourself man.
but it builds into shureylas or crucible D:
Considering Shurelias fell out of popularity and is only a niche pick and that Crucibel is even more niche, yeah, it is still bad.
So maybe buff Eleisa? My idea would be to keep gp10 after upgrade and maybe add CDR for Exhaust.
The problem with keeping the GP10 would be a permanent passive increase in gold (3 Levels and all stats are yours without using a slot) which would be straight up "OP" on the support. Also the CDR for summoner spells is mainly for the supportive ones and not aggressive ones (also supports sometimes get Ignite, meaning you must add that aswell, which would kill the purpose of the item).
You could make exception for GP10 effect and lose it after 3 levels, keeping everything else.And no CDR for Ignite please, tops and mids would get it too much.