The 3 Tiers of Melee - Not every melee is a "tanky damage."

So I've decided to sort of make a topic on something I've hated for a long time, how everyone considers there to only be two types of melee champions. Everyone thinks you have assassins, and you have tanky damage (tanks are apparently tanky damage.) Every time a new melee is released you hear the forums go LOL ANOTHER TANKY DAMAGE (no seriously people said this for Nautilus.) Now I've never considered there to just be even a "tanky damage" category. I mean lets get real here. Is Renekton REALLY justified being in the same category as Udyr? How about Jarvan, is he the same as Skarner? Anyways, for the purposes of this article know that I'm trying to put forward that all melee champions share traits amongst them from three different categories that decide what their overall role is going to be. What's more, I'm going to try to explain that sticking more closely to the roles, with of course hybrid champions, is healthier overall to the game's lasting balance. 



Part 1: Not everyone is always a tanky damage. 

Let me briefly describe all the different roles. Up first is going to be assassin. This basically just boils down to "massive burst damage, low survivability, low sustained." When I say low sustained I of course mean lower than everybody else. No damage in this game is LOW. However, you don't see a Talon after his burst is used up and go "OH MAN IT HURTS!" You're going to go "hehe it tickles!" Basically, the concept of an assassin can be put down as high risk high reward. Talon can burst somebody down but he's squishy, has to go in to melee, and only gets one real shot at it. Now I consider there to only be a few pure assassins in this game: Talon, Shaco, and Fizz. What's more, Talon is the only true ASSASSIN in this game. I think Akali is not a pure assassin because of how tanky she is, because of how massive her sustained damage is, and because of how forgiving she is (3 800 range gap closers and massive spell vamp?) Basically, I believe to be considered a pure assassin you must be insanely unforgiving and squishy or we could just call Renekton and Jarvan pure assassins. Think of an assassin like throwing a water balloon. It's gonna explode on impact but it's going to be far more deadly than a squirt gun. 

The second role of course is the bruiser. Bruisers are tank-ish. Basically there is a spectrum of tankiness that starts at evelyn and ends at Rammus. Bruisers sit in the middle. The fundamental concept of a bruiser is unrelenting high sustained damage on a tank-ish base. Udyr is about as pure of a bruiser as you're going to get. Burst dmaage is NOT part of a pure bruiser and any burst you see is actually just the start of their sustained damage. Think Olaf here, another pure bruiser. Now I said bruisers are tank-ish meaning that they ARE tanky, more tanky than other classes. However, bruisers are not going to be able to headline a fight as well as a tank. Olaf CAN be the first man in and CAN take damage, but he's not going to give that same "this is pointless" feeling that an Alistar or Rammus might give when trying to kill them. Bruisers are like repeatedly punching someone in the face. He might get back up after the first few times but keep doing it and he'll stay down. 

The last class as you might imagine is the tanks. Tanks are obviously defined by the ability to initiate fights, take massive damage, and do some decent sustained damage. Your pure tanks are going to be your Malphite, your Rammus, etc. One huge misconception that people have is that tanks aren't supposed to do damage. I don't know where people got that idea from, probably from WoW which has pervaded everyone's thoughts on what a class is for a very long time. Everyone thinks that the only class that should do damage are the ranged carries and APs. Which has always weirded me out considered AP champions are often backed by massive AoEs and CC, and ranged carries are... ranged. Tanks also tend to be extremely good at CCing, or reducing damage either through hard CC or other effects (Attack speed slows.) Tanks are akin to grabbing on to someone and squeezing. A buddy can come over and hit them while you got them pinned down, or they might just finally give up because your fat ass keeps squeezing them. 

I've explained these categories to set up the rest of the article. This part is me saying "NOT EVERYONE IS A TANKY DAMAGE YOU IDIOTS" and trying to get people to listen. For the rest of the article we're going to go further in here and see where design can go wrong and when it can go right. I feel like I should put this here because I won't really see anywhere else to put it:

Sejuani is one of the most well designed champions in league history.

The only thing she's missing is that she has weak base stats. She's the PERFECT tank design and I think that if riot would just beef up her base stats finally that we could get somewhere. But for some reason riot is running around flailing their arms going WHY IS SEJUANI BAD as sejuani murmers ignored suggestions that it's possibly because her base stats are terrible. 

I should finish up here with with a little message on tankiness. Tanks are generally just as tanky or LESS tanky than bruisers for many reasons. The most important one is that tanks tend to be significantly more dangerous if left alive next to people, AND reduce damage via CC, AND can built completely tanky without worry since they'll just use their CC. So while BASELINE udyr might be tankier than Nautilus, Nautilus ends up being far tankier due to his build choices and the fact he chain CCs people in front of him. So don't inheritely assume that a bruiser has to be less tanky than a tank. Often enough bruisers actually need to be MORE tanky to function. Think Udyr vs. Amuu. Udyr is like twice as tanky but he NEEDS to be tanky to do his job in team fights. Amumu can hit a bandage toss and gap close in, then hit his ult and his job is done. He can now run around crying but he's already done his work. Udyr has to run up and beat on people personally with a single second stun. Most bruisers though are NOT tankier than tanks chiefly because of item choices. 

Part 2: The Reckoning - How champions overstepping their bounds leads to balance issues. 

There are two general types of champions now. Hybrids and pures. Pures are only one archtype but they tend to be INCREDIBLY good at what they do, they just don't do a lot. Hybrids do a lot but aren't as good at what they do. Jarvan the bruiser/assassin/tank can do all things decently, but isn't going to beat out Talon on an assassination contest, and isn't going to beat Udyr in a who can kick each other in the nuts more competition. What's more, hybrids are often more specialized in one category than the other. Akali and Jarvan are both bruiser/assassins but Jarvan is more bruiser, and Akali is more assassin. And another thing, just how fast you do your damage to constitute it as either burst or sustained isn't exactly a science. WHATS MORE, these aren't PERFECT because riot doesn't follow a strict guideline. Morello does not patrol the riot design hallways with a shotgun looking for someone to put an out of class ability on a bruiser. Though if he did the designers would probably be a bit more badass. 

Riot has over time abused these general categories a lot unfortunately. They havn't been the best at sticking to what classes should be doing. They seem to sometimes pick and choose what a character is going to get without really thinking about what that is going to mean for the game. A champion like Rumble is easier to balance than a champion like Xin (ignoring the whole NO MANA issue) because Rumbe doesn't try to be anything other than a bruiser. High sustained damage? Okay. High burst when using ultimate? Okay that's fine. Tankiness? Yeah he's got it. Rumble doesn't try to add on gobs of other stuff. Barring his mana issues he's just complacent in his life as an AP bruiser. Yeah he's often built as a pure AP burst but that's how he's BUILT. He functions entirely like how you'd expect a bruiser to function. Same as Mordekaiser. Sustained damage with burst on his ult. Mord is that guy you know who listens to metal music and only metal music because that's just how he is. He's entirely content with who he is and he's not trying to fit in with the other crowds. NO MANA IS A DIFFERENT TOPIC.

I guess I should list some specific examples: Irelia, way too much of EVERYTHING. Sustain is a huge strength, so is CC. So is spam gap closer. So is an amazing sustain damage steroid. So is burst. So is.... I mean really Irelia? You got like the best and everything of both bruiser and asssassin. WHAT'S WORSE is that this thing can also build so tanky that she is practically a tank too. Xin Zhao, pretty much the same deal (just nerfed so hard that you can't really see it any more.) I mean the bad part here is that champions that tend to do too much in too many categories get nerfed hardcore. Take Shyvana, she got nerfed pretty harshly for being an amazing initiator bruiser damage dealer tank.... thing. I guess the point of this is that if you just add the best strengths of multiple archtypes AND THEN go even beyond that to keep adding to the champion that it's gonna cause some problems. 

It's fine that some champions get one or two things out of their class, like burst on a bruiser. This is fine in moderation and especially on the ultimate where it won't come up often. Darius is the perfect example. He's a pure bruiser, except his ult is burst. Is that a bad thing? No. It's a ... different thing (though it does tend to be used every time.) He's basically, IMO, what riot should strive for more often. At least with Darius we only see one "out of class" mechanic instead of like 15 different things. Compare Darius to Xin. Xin has a spam gap closer, and CC, and burst, and tankiness, etc. Darius has one pull, minor CC, good sustained damage, and an ult that does his burst. Darius is obviously going to be the easier one to balance because he sticks to what his class SHOULD get for the most part. His ult just tends to infuriate some people because it hits the key notes that piss people off. Darius is like if you took an orange and drank it with grape soda. Xin is like if you cut an orange in half then stuff strawberries in to it, and then crushed it with a watermelon.

Hybrid champions (bruiser/assassins AKA tanky assassin) should be weaker at either role BUT get some strengths out of both rolls (Akali.) Pure champions should stick chiefly within their role and not go very far out of it. Olaf is tankier than most bruisers, and that's his schtick compared to other pure bruisers. Darius is burstier than other bruisers, but gives up general mobility for it. Disadvantages like that are fine and make the game more fun and healthier overall. Mashing everything together and hoping it comes out looking pretty just does not make for fun balanced champions. Champions who were mashed the right way end up looking like Jarvan, and add real detrimental weaknesses to the champion. Such as a dfficult to use gap closer and overall slowness. What's more, Jarvan isn't as damaging as an assassin, has less sustained damage than a bruiser, and is significantly less tanky than a tank. Jarvan's strengths look like you took a hammer to the bar graph of a bruiser and smashed it till it was wide and flat, covering the assassin and tank bar graph portions. 

So look, hybrid champions are good and fun, and pure champions are good at fun. The problem starts to be when things get cherry picked from other classes and tossed on far too often. What's worse is when champion kits allow them to overstretch their boundaries. Such as why does Irelia get to build so tanky when she's an assassin/bruiser? It just messes everything up. What's more is when things are just added on without giving real disadvantages for the overstepped boundaries. Many recent champions have this issue who aren't even related to melee, such as Ahri. I won't go in to it (think Ahri vs. Ziggs here) but I think it's a good example. For melee champions I think we've stopped the whole overstepping the boundaries thing since for awhile the melee champions that way overstepped their boundaries were wrecking the game. Such as why the hell does Garen get .... you know what lets not even talk about what Garen used to do. (I out tank tanks as an assassin!) So really, this is just a look back (I hope!) at what went wrong with champions overstepping their boundaries and hoping that we get more Darius's and less Irelias. 

IN CONCLUSION THEN since this seems to be dragging on lets review. Not all melee champions are instantly GENERIC TANKY DAMAGE. I mean Jayce is barely a bruiser, barely a ranged carry. He's a perfect hybrid between the two yet was cried about as another generic tanky damage champion on the forums. Yeah when I think Jayce all I can think is Generic. To continue on the review hybridizing champions is fun and works, but not when you just cherry pick mechanics to add on to a champion. Lets add a little bit of tankiness, and some CC, and okay some amazing burst damage will do nicely too! Don't do that. However what people need to realize is that SOME mechanics will come from out of class because that just makes things interesting from time to time. Grave's screen is interesting (and bugged as all hell) and makes the game more fun. HOWEVER, what I really want people to do is stop calling everyone TANKY DAMAGE as if its just some category. It'd be like calling every ranged champion RANGED CARRY despite them being Brand or Ezreal.

To anyone wondering I think Garen has a good design NOW but back in the day he was insanity. That was before mobility creep and there are a lot of factors going in to it. Basically he used to out tank tanks, out burst assassins, and with his sunfires and general tankiness just showed everyone up. Garen is really more of a tank/assassin hybrid with no bruiser component a all, it's just he used to be nuts. Powercreep and nerfs really don't let you see what the problem was back then, just trust me that it was a class REALLY overstepping their boundaries for the time. Boundaries have expanded and increased over time with champions like Graves just being nutty (burst and massive utility on a high damage carry?) 

Follow me on twitter @hashinshin for happy fun times! Watch my stream too.

17

Comments

  • #17 Jacimovski

    WHY DID YOU REMOVE YOUR GLORIOUS PAINT - MADE PICs?!

    http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/wt2xq/why_i_think_volibear_is_the_most_underrated/

    tanky dps ftw! wirte more stuff. love reading it. love you. (nohomo) 

  • #16 braindamaj

    best graphs ever

  • #15 Eggsellent

    I don't believe that the complaints regarding "another generic tanky melee" has to do with their kits.  I believe that while many tanky bruisers share common elements - gap closers, and AD scaled spells, they generally have unique kit elements.  For example, Jarvan's signature ult, cataclysm, is unique in its ability to construct unpassable terrain that can trap entire teams, while not actually being an AoE root, which would make him far too strong.

    I believe the complain is mainly in the role they play and their itemization.

    You outlined three roles - assassin, tanky dps/offtank, and tank.

    • Assassins you mentioned were Talon, Shaco, and Fizz.  Assassins were defined as squishy burst  melee anti-carries.  As you mentioned, there were only 3 real "assassins" - everyone else generally builds some form of tankiness.  I really don't feel that people have confused this role with the "tanky dps" role.
    • Tanks generally build almost entirely survivability, and rely on disables to be useful to their team.  They generally jungle.  Strong champs that fit this role also happen to be rare - Nautilus and Maokai are the only ones I've seen in tournaments recently; Amumu also fits this role.  Alistar and Leona are also usually built as tanks, but in a support role, and they rarely are ascribed the "tanky dps" moniker.
    • Tanky dps is by far the largest group among the three.  They include Olaf, Garen, Darius,  Warwick, Wukong, Riven, Renekton, Volibear, Udyr, Trundle, Skarner, Shyvana, Lee Sin, Jax, Jarvan IV, Xin Zhao, Yorick, Dr. Mundo, Hecarim, Nasus, Sion, and Volibear (I may have missed some).  These tanky dps-s may have entirely different kits - but they share common traits:
      • They tend to go top; some can jungle.  Mundo exclusively jungles, but 
      • Their builds tend to include Merc Treads, Trinity Force-Atmogs, or Fratmogs, Wit's End or Maw of Malmortius.  Yes, I know that Atma's Impaler has been nerfed, and that on this site I've seen the bruiser itemization article stating that bad.  This is also why bruisers are being picked less top lane, and the few bruisers who have different builds than this - for example, Jax, are showing their strengths.  Of course there are variations on this, but it's a general metagolem build.
      • While they may have varied playstyles - Udyr is quite different in playstyle than Renekton, and Jarvan plays differently than Skarner - they generally fulfill the role of the anticarry that is tanky enough to deal damage to important targets while staying alive.
      • This is where the issue of the "generic tanky dps" comes from.  They tend to have similar builds and fulfill similar roles, albeit in different ways.
      • Looking at recent releases, Darius, Hecarim, Fiora, (less tanky than most, but still can be built tanky) Volibear, and Shyvana are the recent releases.
      • One issue that should be highlighted is how sometimes it feels as if Riot is catering towards certain builds.  For example, take Hecarim.  Hecarim's Q is blatantly tailored towards Trinity procs - it has a 4 second cooldown that falls to a 2 second cooldown, which is exactly what Trinity Force's passive's cooldown is.  People disliked Fiora because she had a single spell with a double gap closer, which seemed to exemplify tanky-dps.

    As for Sejuani's problems, you state that she has terrible base stats.  I'm not sure why.  I'll compare her stats to Nautilus, who is a similarly extremely tanky jungle.

    • Sejuani has slightly higher base health and health regen at all levels.
    • Nautilus has higher base mana and mana regen at all levels.  He also has higher mana costs.
    • Sejuani has normal melee range, while Nautilus has an extended (175) melee range.
    • Sejuani has a higher base movement speed.
    • Sejuani has higher base AD and base AS at all levels.
    • Sejuani has higher base armor than Nautilus, significantly so at early levels.  Nautilus and Sejuani share base MR values.

    Nothing seems to be wrong with her base stats - in fact, they might be considered stronger than Nautilus.  So why is Nautilus a top pick/ban and Sejuani almost unseen in tournaments?

    • Nautilus's main jungle clearing ability not only does damage but provides a shield.  Sejuani has no such built in sustain.
    • Sejuani's free slow is useless against jungle creeps.  Nautilus' passive provides a useful, albeit slight immobilize and free damage.
    • Nautilus's initiate does not go through enemy minions, but is a pull, is harder to avoid, drags the target towards Nautlius, and has a longer range.
    • Nautilus' slow, while shorter-lasting, and diminishing, does not require melee range to applied.  If you have a gap closer of your own and can juke Arctic Assault (a slow also helps) you can actually kite Sejuani.  It's also applied to all enemies, and does more damage, especially on fleeing targets.
    • Sejuani has poor initation without her ultimate.  Nautilus' passive, his dredge line, and his riptide have far shorter cooldowns than an ultimate.  Nautilus' ultimate is arguably just as good compared to Glacial Prison; it has a higher level 6 cooldown that is lower by level 11, it does more single-target damage, and possibly most importantly, its knockup portion is not affected by Tenacity or CC reduction.  If a Trundle on contaminate, Irelia, or Mundo can intercept the projectile, Glacial Prison is far less useful, considering it applies the big stun to the primary target only.
  • #13 Misticaltom

    I liked the article!  And that other guy is right, you ignored the likes of Master Yi, Tryndamere, and Fiora!

     

    OOOH WELLL, nobody likes them anyways.

    But what about support bursiers like Nunu?

  • #11 Nash19

    Never thought I would read all this but I did, I really liked reading that.

    I'm a big fan of Jarvan and Lee Sin who have a bit of everything but for some reason I hate Irelia, I think she's just too strong. You got a pretty strong point where you say that she basically has best strengths from both assassins and bruisers while being allowed to build very tanky (alongside a broken passive) which make her almost a full tank.

    I know you dislike Lee Sin, to be honest I can understand why and if his dash was a targeted one like Irelia's, I'd probably hate him too.

    I wish I actually played the game when Jarvan was apparently "OP". Most of the time when I pick him people tell me he sucks, while he really doesn't in my opinion.

    Thanks for this blog !

  • #12 ZeltArruin

    Ah, the glory days before any nerfs.  I played J4 all the time back then, literally went on deathless game sprees for entire match histories.  It was pretty silly, but I miss it.  The best part was the short time when no one knew how op he was, and you just dunked fools all day long.

  • #14 Ueber

    I honestly don't think J4 was ever that unbalanced.  Yeah, if you got fed you would absolutely murder people the rest of the game, but that's the case with 90% of the other heroes, too.  He was a solid pick at the end of Season 1, as one of the better tank-sorts.  His DPS build was more viable, but wasn't really used at the higher levels of play.

    Then he got lumped in with Irella as one of the "too much in the toolkit" champions, and his offensive ability gutted.  Then you had the power creep up top lane with higher sustain, less mana-neutered heroes and the jungle remake.  Poor J4's a sad shadow of his former glory.  Still can be fun as hell to play, but there are better options these days (Malphite comes to mind).

  • #18 ZeltArruin

    I agree on all points.  Can't stop my nostalgia though! :)

  • #8 CarrierhasLeft

    I feel like you ignored a melee class in this article: Melee DPS carries. I know that the concept of a glass-canon melee champion is sketchy at best in a MOBA, but champions like Fiora and Yi are still parts of LoL and shouldn't be ignored.

  • #4 Rispudding

    I think talking about classes when balancing is irrelevant. Classes are only constructed generalizations of champions that and do not actually exist in the game. In the game champions fulfill roles, and have stats an abilities. The tank class is a generalization of champions that have cc  and survivability abilities, good initiation and peeling. The bruiser class is a generalization of champs that have a mix of damage and tanky abilities, and are good at anticarry and/or peeling. Classes are only helpful for generalizing champions and getting an idea of how they will play.

    Champions are balanced around what roles they can fulfill in teamfights, how well they fulfill them and their laning/jungling.  

     Take malphite: He fulfills the role of initiator extremly well, by initiating fights and locking the enemy down, but does little else in teamfights. He also dominates his lane. So he is balanced around his role as initiator and his strong laning, not by the fact he is classed as a pure tank. After all Rammus is also a pure tank, but fulfill entirely other roles in teamfights and his laning is totally different. 

    Now lets look at Xin: He can fulfill the role of initiator or anticarry. Properly (which the new Xin hopefully will be, the PBE version of him looks promising) balanced he either builds high dmg and can then dive a carry and kill the carry in a quick burst, then get cc'ed, focused and die, or he can go high survivability, initiate on someone and locking them down, drawing dmg as his team kills his target. If a Xin built for high dmg initiates he will be cc'ed and killed faster than his own team can kill the enemy he cc'ed (unless he caught a squishy out of position) and if a high survivability Xin tries to anticarry he will not be able to kill his target fast enough and the target will escape. That Xin can't be easily classed as a bruiser, initiator or assassin is irrelevant. Balancing how well he fulfills his roles in a teamfight and his laning/jungling is the only thing relevant. 

     About Darius: I find he does not really fit into the traditionall class of bruisers, for the role he fulfills in teamfights is that of a peeler, Godmode peeler. He peels in a untraditional way by having somewhat weak CC (though the pull is very good for peeling), but by being able to kill most bruisers before they can reach the carry. He can not initiate, he can not anticarry, but he is balanced around his ability to peel in teamfights and his dominant laning. 

    About Lee: He is balanced around the fact that while his laning/jungling is dominant, and he can fulfill many roles early and mid game, he can not fulfill any role well late game unless really fed.  

    You also forgot a class of melees: The melee carry, champions like Trynda, Yi and Fiora. They are ofcourse not viable in most cases, but we still use the class. And Riot is still making champions that group into the class. The current problem with champion that falls into this class is that they can not fulfill the role of carry they were intended to fulfill and the pure melee carries lack the kit to fulfill other roles. Some of the hybrids take traits associated with melee carries, new Xin and Jax have attack speed boosts and good ad scaling, meaning they can carry if fed and built for it.

     tldr: Classes irrelevant constructs for balancing, laning/jungling and roles champions can fulfill in teamfights determines balance. 

    Last edited by Rispudding: 7/18/2012 8:51:34 AM
  • #5 buckx

    The class constructs do have relevant attributes, though I view it mostly through a strength/weakness lens. Assassins have burst and mobility as a strength, but survivability as a weakness. Tanks have survivability as a strength, then have mobility and sustained damage at lower levels, with burst basically related to how much sustained that tank happens to have (but generally not much). The problem is when you take one archetype, and nab a strength from another class. One example he didn't get into which I think is glaring is Lee Sin. His kit is phenomenal, and so he suffered a lot of nerfs to his numbers, but is still plenty strong. His strengths are: No mana, shield, personal reposition, personal reposition number 2, ally shield, offensive reposition. Without even getting into damage, that's just an incredible set of strengths. Craxy mobility and survivability just through his abilities. The only way to rein in somebody cherry picking so many strengths is to make their numbers small. The issue then is you can easily go too far, have them fail at their ganks, never get the snowballing going on, and just become ignorable.

    Last edited by buckx: 7/20/2012 9:01:48 AM
  • #7 Rispudding

    Classes are generalizations of strengths and weaknesses that typically are combined to make balanced characters. But I do not find that cherry picking from classes is what causes unbalances. I find that only cherry picking strengts/weaknesses is what will cause a problem. 

     I find Lee balanced as he is now. His kit allows him to be fantastic early and mid game, but he has been given a glaring weakness of terrible scaling to compensate for it. He has the strenghts of all classes early, but has his own glearing late game weakness to compensate for it.

    I find a champion like Talon in many cases can be harder to balance properly. The reason being he is too specialized and to niche so he either fails his intended role or completely dominates at it. He either completely shuts down the enemy ap or he fails and is just useless. He fulfills the very specialized role of ap-anticarry, but in his current state he does not do it well enough and his laning is lacking.  Changing his kit a bit to make him a full worthy anti carry by making him better against ads would make him easier to balance in my opinion. Maybe a blind on his q or as slow on the W. 

  • #9 CarrierhasLeft

    The issue with pure assassin balance is that an assassin's job is to quickly burst down a single target, and an assassin that can consistently do that would be a monster in lane. LeBlanc's generally annoying tendency to get at least 3 kills in lane is balanced by a weak late-game showing, but for a champion like talon becoming stronger in lane (and thus performing constantly late game) could result in another Xin: a champion that is balanced at high levels of play but completely dominant at lower levels.

  • #10 Rispudding

    Problem with Talon now is that he is a mage assassin. He is too specialized. He could be buffed on his performance against ADs and even bruisers making him an assassin of squishies, without it affecting his performance against APs. That would make him easier to balance. 

    Look forward to new Xin: he will be fun and balanced (after they fine tuning his ratios of course), and he will be the combination of a bruiser, tank and an assassin. He does not have the stealth or tricks of an assassin, but compensates with CC to lock down and single out his target. Or he can build tanky and be the initiator for his team. 

  • #3 klvkboom

    Very interesting read Hashinshin. I'd say from this post I learned quite a lot more not about damage tanks and bruisers, but champion design as well.

    There's one think that made me think from your blog:

    "So while BASELINE udyr might be tankier than NautilusNautilus ends up being far tankier due to his build choices and the fact he chain CCs people in front of him."

    This made me think more about the design of tanks, how they lack some base stats but put up with it with a strong kit. What I want to know is though, is it a good idea for tanks to be item dependent whereas bruisers become tanky with only small investment? Is it a good idea to give Udyr, a champ with a low CD 200 shield and even one of the highest base HP, some MR/lvl and even high MS, whereas Cho, a champ that gets up to 900 free HP, doesn't get any MR/lvl? Not the best comparison, but I want to know why tanks are more often forced to build according to their role whereas bruisers build on a large spectrum based on how well they're doing? And is it balanced this way?

    In simpler words, is it balanced the way tanks have lower base stats such as no scaling MR, lower MS, lower HP, and lower damage because of their forms of CC and tank attributes?

  • #2 gekkos

    your artstyle is very unique

    Last edited by gekkos: 7/18/2012 1:02:57 PM
  • #1 TheFaller

    I remember those garen times... the hide-in-a-bush-&-Spin2Win thingy. They were fun, sorta...

    Now we get stuff like lee sin... Not even gonna talk much about him, this music pretty much describes all of him http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eA04nbviQ8E&feature=g-all-u

  • To post a comment, please or register a new account.
Posts Quoted:
Reply
Clear All Quotes