So assassins, remember them? No not Rengar, not Diana, not tanky-bursters. Assassins, those guys like Talon, Kha'Zix, and etc. Oh right that really crappy one counts too I guess, Zed. I think that somewhere down the line assassins have been becoming worse and worse and worse. I wasn't originally going to make this post, but the AP post and discussion following it really... well what's the way to put it, it really got me annoyed because of how much proof there is out there that assassins are losing their job to AP anything yet Riot doesn't do anything about it.

The most popular "assassins" are tanky-bursters, not assassins.
Something people always say is "assassins aren't bad, look at Diana!" Yeah, so what about Diana? She's as much as an assassin as Jax is. I mean would you consider Xin Zhao an assassin? Yet they function pretty much exactly the same in concept: Gap close up to a target then CC them as you burst them. The problem with this is that true assassins like Talon and Kha'Zix lose their place to these tanky-bursters because why take Kha'Zix when you can take Diana who does 90% of his damage, has CC, and is 2-3x as tanky?
When Akali came out I thought to myself "are you really an assassin if you're hard to kill with tons of sustain and multiple ways to forgive mistakes?" Well bruiser-assassins like Irelia and Xin Zhao came out and champions originally intended as assassins such as Jax got remade to be far tankier. And the natural end of all of this is an assassin who outright plays more like a bruiser than an assassin (Diana.) HOWEVER, the evolution of the tanky-burster has not caused the orignal assassin to become extinct and we still see champions like Fizz and Kha'Zix come out that are still squishy as hell yet barely do more damage than Diana to possibly explain the difference in CC/tankiness.
Mobility has powercreeped, assassin mobility has regressed over time.
Talon with 18-10 second CD gap closer. Kha'Zix with a single leap that until evolved is practically melee ranged. Then finally Zed who moves about three feet with his "gap closer", and their real gap closer attached to an ultimate. Yeah, it's sort of becoming incredibly noticeable that assassins simply can not stay on target. The real irony though is that tanky-bursters like Xin Zhao and Diana have actually increased in mobility. Ever played Zed against a ranged carry with trinity and red buff? You'll never get in range. Same with Kha'Zix.
While mobility is going up and up and up the newer assassins are actually regressing all under the guise that they need counter play, to the point where they actually can't function anymore. All this "they need counterplay, assassins need more counterplay! MORE COUNTERPLAY!" has caused every new assassin to be unable to perform their duties against organized opponents, and struggle to do it even against an enemy standing out in the middle of nowhere. They got so much counter play now (which just functions as lack of power) that AP mages are better assassins than assassins now.
Counter play deserves a section of its own.
The lack of counter play in assassins has been a historical thing. They kill you, or you survive them and kill them. We're not all Ryu Hyabusa here with multiple combos, blocks, and blocks we have to execute in professional order in order to win. Most assassins either do their job by hitting a few buttons correctly or do their job by hitting a few buttons correctly and don't get the kill. Now Talon might require his buttons be hit correctly really well, but still you're playing against a wall most of the time countering THEIR actions rather than trying to let them counter your own.
HOWEVER, the excessive amount of counter being added to assassins isn't actual counter play, it's just weakness being added. Kha'Zix isn't gaining counterplay by being crazy easy kited, he's just weak. There's nothing you do directly against Kha'Zix than you do against Akali, one is just weaker. On Diana for example you can dodge her Q and deny her ult reset. On Fizz you can dodge his ultimate. Going beyond that to other champions on Cho'gath you can dodge his rupture. It's more than just skillshots though, often it's plays style: For example on Jax you can poke him effectively and deny an all-in situation. On Wukong you can predict where he will travel when stealthed and know when to not go all-in and get killed via ult. It goes on. Against these new assassins? You use your escape ability then walk the other direction.
So assassins "counter play" is just "making them weak." Where assassins fail however AP mages succeed. Most AP mages (Barring like Karthus) do exactly what assassins do, they simply are also able to hurt bruisers, do it at range, and AoE to win team fights.
And isn't that the problem, assassins being out performed by AP mages?
Every AP mage can burst. Even kite based AoE nuking CCers can burst (Orianna.) By mid game they 1 shot most AP champions with an ignite. The problem here is that the counter play to AP mages is "stay out of range." If only assassins had such ... lenient? counterplay options. You can counter Talon by being too tanky, getting allies to peel, flashing, stunning him off, using an escape move. You can counter Orianna by flashing her ultimate or being tanky enough to survive it. That's it. There's no kiting Orianna, and her combination of speed boost + slow + functioning entirely while never having to stop makes it quite difficult to escape. Kha'Zix on the other hand is COMPLETELY kited by using a single escape move after his gap closer then running the other direction. What's he gonna do, use his ultimate 3x while running at you and maybe after 5 seconds get maybe in range... maybe?
So really, the hope I have here is that assassins will be good in season 3 finally.
Because lets be honest, Kha'Zix is barely tolerable, and I hate champions like that. Just like how Sejuani is so bad for so long because riot doesn't want more GP10 tank junglers. Champions like Talon, Leblanc, Pantheon, etc. all straddle the "well they're kinda useful I guess" category. They'd just need a small bump up and especially with so many AP AoE burst champions existing I really don't see what the problem is with only killing one champion. Maybe that's what Riot hates is they only kill one?
Anyway, I think we all know that assassins in S2 were all over meh, and in S3 I'm hoping they get somewht of a boost.
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Posted 12/2/2012 11:56:43 AM-
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Posted 12/2/2012 11:56:28 AM-
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Posted 11/30/2012 4:52:21 PMI guess he means Talon/Akali/Master Yi ;p
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Posted 11/29/2012 9:56:13 AMWhat is an assassin ?
I just dont get it. You should either give a clear definition or stop talking about it.
Diana is a champion with high single target burst, but she is not an assassin because she is too tanky... Seriously wtf ?
If you have enough burst to kill your target from 100 to 0, you start building defensive items because there is really no point bursting a single target from 100% to -50%. That's why any good assassin will be a "tanky-burster".
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Posted 11/29/2012 10:18:00 AMNot true.
"assassins" should be defined as champions that have a particular possibility of building straight damage and "assassinate" (100/0 with one combo) someone in fights, then maybe die or survive or kill someone else.
Everybody can't, some do, but some can do it often enough.
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Posted 11/29/2012 11:10:59 AMWhat isn't true ?
Diana has the possibility of building straight damage and kill someone at full health with a single combo.Then she can die or survive (I think there are many champions who can die or survive).
So why isn't she an assassin ?
And if someone can kill from 100 to 0 his target, why would he not buy defensive items instead of building more damage for a pointless overkill ?
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Posted 11/29/2012 6:51:37 PMtbh, i think diana counts as an assassin because she can 100-0 a target.
and eleandar makes the point that if the said assassin already can 100-0 a target with not too many items, there isn't need to go overkill, because it wont do anything, so just get tanky
atm, i don't think tankiness is a valid discussion on deciding if one is an assassin or not
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Posted 11/30/2012 5:26:36 PMWell, I think we should all agree that Diana is some special case.
Even if played as an "assassin", pure damage, she still has built-in OP shield and she is the champion with the 5th most health if I remind correctly.
Thus, we could define Diana as a mix between an assassin and an AP bruiser.
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Posted 11/30/2012 8:01:55 PMFor me, Diana is like the AP Irelia. Even if they are not identical in play-style, they are equally annoying to play against if they are fed. Tanky bursty divers, who will 100-0 you given the chance, but worse than that, will probably also survive doing so!
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Posted 12/2/2012 1:02:48 PMI agree. Irelia is not an assassin though, she is a bruiser/assassin. She doesn't burst her target down, she does high dps while being difficult to kill or cc. She still takes out the target, but in a completely different way.
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Posted 12/3/2012 12:09:04 AMI wasn't imply that she was an assassin ;)
Just that there are some parallels between Diana and Irelia in that, as you said, they both have attributes of assassins AND bruisers.
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Posted 11/28/2012 4:43:10 PMHoly moly, one of the most clueless posts I have read in a while. Assassins have dominated the previous months, with especially mid-assassins being entirely dominant. Is this guy crying for his own benefit (mains) or what is going on there? :P
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Posted 11/27/2012 9:30:45 AMHashinshin strikes back. Again crying. I thought "is this the same crap as last time". Sure it is and i never read your posts anymore Hashinshin. Btw. never mention Kata is criminal.
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Posted 11/27/2012 9:39:14 AMHis post about ad casters was basically just saying that the ad casters that are assassins are bad, and then he makes that statement AGAIN in this post.
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Posted 11/27/2012 7:20:14 AMThe entire class is a joke. It's inherently imbalanced and broken. Who wouldn't want a champ with silly escapes and extreme damage when the difference between a tank and a squishy before mid game is basically 100hp?