The game's various powercreeps, as seen with Udyr.

So I think the big question everyone asked when Udyr was being buffed (or at least got the proposed buffs) was "when did Udyr become so bad?" Udyr was basically an auto-pick and auto-ban in every tournament, then he got his shield reduced to 200 from 220 and all of the sudden he went in to the bottom rung of obsolete champions. Well various things contributed to this. Udyr was beating up on all the popular top picks at the time so it was basically pick Udyr or get wrecked by Udyr (and with everyone trying to use Irelia it was a no brainer ban/pick choice.) However, he gets his laning phase nerfed a bit then all of the sudden no more Udyr, ever. Why is that?

 

Now this post isn't really about Udyr, but rather showing change THROUGH Udyr. I'm not saying "world is over for Udyr!" but rather, through Udyr, trying to show how things have changed. Don't think this is about Udyr

Top lane changed: No longer a passive farm fest.

Udyr exists in lane to whack you with a tiger nuke, then put up his shield and sustain all the health/mana damage he took while also denying you counter attacks via his shield. So in an environment where nobody is really going for a kill and damage is mediocre with everyone trying to farm then Udyr reigns supreme. However, with Darius, Jayce, Olaf, etc. all coming out with either being released or buffed top lane became far more of a kill fest. It's hard to be Udyr when you're struggling just to maintain your health pool with turtle stances and you never even get a chance to go offensive. 

The addition of hardcore heavy jungler camp didn't help Udyr either. He's slow, a lumbering brute really. He can't escape ganks very well, and he can't assist them very well either. You might say "HEY BUT YORICK AND DARIUS GOT USED AND THEY CAN'T ESCAPE EITHER!" Well Darius can REALLY assist ganks with his pull, yorick always keeps his opponent at low health and dominates the lane. Udyr wins slow and steady, and really works hard at denying CS via nobody wanting to get close to him. None of those things really help the jungler out to get kills, and none of them help him escape ganks since his tiny bear move won't be much use against red buff. 

So basically Udyr got worse in lane.

Damage is a lot higher in lane, and killing potential is much higher. Turtle shield + tiger trades are no longer the end be all because people actually try to kill you now, not just trade. What's more is a lot of the more recent trading is HARD trading, things like Jayce comboes or Darius murder fests. Things you can't just turtle shield. And with damage higher tiger shots don't just immediately win everything. WHAT'S MORE is that with flask and mana pools getting much better. You can't just turtle shield spam and make people go OOM on your face anymore. Darius with flask isn't going to just OOM because you used turtle shield 4-5 times on his damage. Likewise, Jayce isn't going to run out of damage anytime soon. 

Mobility powercreeped pretty hard. 

Play Udyr against Syndra. Or against Orianna. Or against Caitlyn with a Nunu support. Get the idea here? Udyr can't get anyone anymore. He has to basically catch them off guard, which is to say that in a properly warded fair fight situation Udyr can only go after melee targets, people in front. Is that a bad thing? Does it make him bad? Well not entirely, he basically goes after tanks anyway. HOWEVER, he is just USELESS against other targets now which is a fairly big change. 

I guess what I'm saying is that Udyr's field of available targets shrunk. He can't gank mid most of the time anymore, and he struggles to gank bot. So that leaves top which is increasingly warded and cautious as they respond to the powercreep in jungler gank strength. The days of playing Jungle Udyr and getting ghost for free kills are done. The days of roaming from top for kills are pretty much over. You can still tower dive, but with towers being far more damaging due to armor nerfs/tower buffs no longer is a rank 5 turtle shield enough to dive for 30 seconds. 

The game has gotten more complex.

 I think a big part of what played against Udyr is the game has simply gotten more complex. Champions that execute complex comboes are rewarded more. Pulling off a full darius pull and damage rotation in to ult rewards more than bear stancing in to somebody then auto attacking in tiger. And Udyr is very open to these comboes. As a hard melee champion with no real mobility or counterplay options (as in Udyr himself can't really do much to counterplay his opponents via things like Fizz poll or vlad pool or a jump away or etc.) Udyr is a prime target for comboes. Ever want to set up the perfect Syndra combo? Hit Udyr! Champions like Darius or Jax or etc. tend to move around a lot, stun easier, and pull/gap close to mess up comboes. Udyr? He runs quick.

What this also means is that Udyr can't be as good because he doesn't have anything to work with. Every udyr is going to bear in, then they're going to tiger, then they're going to turtle, then bear... every one, every time. Maybe not in that precise order, but they're just going to swap between the 3. Udyr can only improve on what other champions do, which is to move and attack and then move and attack rather than let the game do it for you. 

Plus Ultimates have gotten a lot better.

Gone are the days of massive CD ultimates. Even Amumu went down 20 seconds in CD. As such, ultimates are up pretty much for every fight and NOT having an ultimate and instead having stronger abilities isn't so much of a positive any more. Darius with 100/90/80 seconds CD isn't gonna find his ult on CD when it's time to kill. And the champions without ultimates have incredible abilities, like Elise with her Q alone driving people out of lane. 

So what has happened to our poor Udyr?

Well, he's easier to kite, he's not the only lane brute anymore, and he's gotten a form of complexity creep. So what's the end result? Udyr is no longer the monster he used to be. So Udyr is getting those buffs that he's needed to be seen back in the competitive scene. Will they work? Well he'll be a bit tankier, but he's going to be seriously lacking in a lot of regards. However, Udyr does suffer from a lack of something that Riot wants more of: Counterplay. And that's a big reason as to why Riot really doesn't care that much if Udyr is competitive. Even Darius has more counterplay than Udyr. Udyr's entire playstyle is "run quick in to enemy, hit them with unmissable damage, continue to hit them with unmissable damage, shield and sustain any damage taken" which lacks a certain... ability to be stopped by anything than lots of damage. 

Consider that now the game is a lot more complicated than simply out bruisering your opponent. It's more than just running at people and doing a damage test to see who does more damage to see who wins. Because of that Udyr has to be worse because... well that's what he does. When he out damages you and can catch you he wins. When he doesn't he loses. A lot of Udyr's power isn't even in the player's hands because it's in his items instead. 

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Comments

  • #67 Dj0z

    stand-there-autoattacking-without-counterplay is indeed out of fashion xcept for vayne, but even her has that stun where you can avoid being near the wall, and tumble lets you dodge things. That's minimal counterplay but still good, more interesting than Udyr's.

    So back at the Udyr example, i think what he needs to really embrace the complexity creep is small mechanical reworks rather than any amount of number tweaks. Like turtle giving a short tenacity-stacking boost to counter CC (same play pattern as spellshield, but weaker and longer), or bear & tiger being stronger if applied from the back, or whatever.

    The more counterplay available, the better the game overall.

    Last edited by Dj0z on 1/8/2013 7:59:05 PM
  • #62 Inkstorm

    This article is cabbage.  Curse's Saintvicious just curb-stomped Fear with Udyr and you want me to believe he's outdated?  Amazing mobility, never died despite being focused every fight, and stunned like it was going out of style.  Calling this article BS

  • #68 clutz1

    Quote from Inkstorm »

    This article is cabbage.  Curse's Saintvicious just curb-stomped Fear with Udyr and you want me to believe he's outdated?  Amazing mobility, never died despite being focused every fight, and stunned like it was going out of style.  Calling this article BS


    STV outplayed that game. It has nothing to do with Udyr. His counterganking is still superstrong (A top Duelist and damage soaker, plus always at max HP), and Fear kept attacking him even though he had like tons of defensive items built.

  • #54 Deliqe

    The biggest problem of Udyr is that he is a garbage champion. Has no gap closer so his ganks suck and if he goes lane he scales horribly into late game so the gold is completely wasted on him.

  • #55 MerryLane

    God brah, you don't say ...

    But you see the point of this article, is to show with Udyr's example, some forms of powercreeping the game got these last months.

    Udyr's problems ALWAYS existed. But since the game changed a bit (you will understand correctly after reading the article) his problems made him "bad" while before he was "OP" without changes to Udyr himself.

     

  • #59 registermyaccount

    Exactly. Every champ has their pros and cons, but with the release of the new champs, Udyr's cons have gotten 'stronger', if that makes sense.

     

    Video games, where anybody worse than you is a noob, anybody better than you has no life.

  • #60 K0stra

    Significant?

     

  • #63 MerryLane

    Quote from K0stra »

    Significant?

     

    ?

  • #65 K0stra

    His cons are getting more significant/noticable/substantial/ hell problematic/severe/major/frustrating/irritating... take your pick. While stronger is technically correct it just hurts.

     

  • #66 MerryLane

    I just don't understand what a "significant" comes from in this conversation xD

    I just tried and explain Deliqe that the point of this article wasn't explaining Udyr's weaknesses, but how the newer champions (and somehow, the other changes) made Udyr's weaknesses too much of a burden.
    So him telling that Udyr is a garbage champion because of ... is stupid. Udyr had awesome advantages at that time, such as "yeah you can kite me for 10 seconds ... but at 11th I will catch you and murder you".

     

  • #52 Misticaltom

    Not only is this article not about Udyr, it seems to lack an understanding of Udyr.   You barely went into Udyr jungling or team fights and how those show power creep!

    Seriously man, go into the Flash changes and how they extra hurt the flash reliant Udyr instead of nerfing the Flash-happy Fizz and Ahri's who already do that all the time.   Or perhaps how Udyr's extremely team reliant, which favors those Utility mids in place of Murder-mids, which shows how power creeped to mobility and utility, which Udyr has less of, but does still have.

    Or about how Udyr's still a common pick, for he's still a damned Jungle powerhouse, his Laning always felt gimicky to me personally, but that Jungle is consistent and you will see when that Power creeps up on you.

  • #53 GentlemanGustaf

    Yes. It's not about Udyr. That's why it barely went into Udyr. The post is not about Udyr, but about how champions like Udyr relate to other champions. So ultimately, it's not about what Udyr has or does, but what things have become commonplace that Udyr doesn't have.

     

  • #45 Dub_Rio

    I think it might be a good idea if you make an article about counter play - define what it is, what champions have it and which ones don't, and maybe some design ideas to get more of it in game. 

  • #42 GentlemanGustaf

    I say this as one of the few people who seems to LIKE hashinshin's posts:

    This post is hardly any different from any previous hashinshin posts. Few of his posts are that different in style. And yet every post, people say 'wow, this is way better than a usual hashinshin post! I love it! Do more like this!'

    The difference, in my opinion, is probably this. They agree with that particular article. Nothing he said rubbed them the wrong way. And so they want more posts that they agree with because they make them feel smart. They let people feel good at the game because they happen with a high Elo player.

    Well guess what? Hashinshin's better than most RoG readers. He's going to disagree with you a lot, and he's probably (at least more than you) right. So stop looking to his posts for confirmation of something you already believe, and either not finding it (and criticizing or not commenting) or finding it (and commenting 'BEST HASHINSHIN POST EVAR'). Read his articles not to feel good about yourself, but to learn something about the game, and you'll be surprised how good they all are.

  • #43 exacerberus

    In all honestly I like best the posts in which he's pissed off and rages in frustration and everyone in the comments rages back at him, so he replies more harshly to them. Those are the real Hashinshin posts: the ones that drive people mad because they disagree and inform him he's a stupid noob that doesn't know anything about the game. I find those absolutely entertaining.

    Mongol General: Conan! What is best in life?

    Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women.

    Mongol General: That is good! That is good.

    - Conan the Barbarian -

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