Reign of Gaming

i do not agree... there are quite a bit tanky champions who stack alot of hp and still do alot of dmg...

which makes them snowball hard and nearly unstoppable or even unkillable

then there u go get the final item thornmail and watch them suicide while trying to kill you

just cuz someone is butthurt about outdated champions like rammus doing badly even with health stacking deosnt mean that there is something wrong with the %health dmg or penetration items....

Although the article was a bit combative at times I thought there was some good insight. Although % health damage is the counter to health IMO there are too few champs that offer this damage type to offset how strong Warmogs is currently.I have to ask this question though are there really enough sources of % health damage currently available to combat health stacking? I really don't see it. I mean elise is a ridiculously strong pick right now because she counters the current meta of 3-4 warmogs on a team.

I seriously think Hash should stop making posts all together, they are obviously biased and not objective enough. For example FH lost 9 armor only, and your acting like armor pen makes physical do true damage. Ok with LW, you still have to interact with 65% of their armor, and if you get Ninja Tabi it gets more efficient at blocking dmg when someone has LW. Since ADC's were nerfed in general item-wise, it makes sense for Tanks to lose their durability to be less "immune" to magic damage, that was their approach and I think they did just fine.

And %HP isn't OP, it's the way to counter HP stacking like armor pen and magic pen is for their respective defenses. You clearly have no concept of balance. If u take 15% max HP, how about the other 85% that people will have to go through? I'm so glad you are not a game designer or else you would have the most toxic game play and balance ideas I've ever see, and would probably make no one wanna play LoL.

Biased or not, he is right in this case.
Armor and magic didn't just get nerf in their stats. They got nerfs when they changed bit how the penetration is calculated. This leads to it that people who plays a lot bruisers or tanks have noticed that they suddenly die in a 1-2 seconds when they try to initiate a fight. This is why people focus HP now, since you can't be bursted so fast at least, and you will get at least some damage while at it.

"And %HP isn't OP"
"I'm not saying ALL %HEALTH DAMAGE IS OP AND CLEARLY NERFNERFNERF. I never say that about anything. YOU people say that."
-hashinshin. 

Read the article before commenting like that. %HP isn't a problem. New penetration calculation and armor nerfs are the problem.
Building full tank doesn't work anymore. 

Penetration isn't even problematic,An enemy has 200 armor, I have 35% armor pen and 10 armor pen. That leaves the target with 120, or the older LW and Brut (40% and 15 armor pen respectively) 200 armor subtract 15 = 185. Reduce by 40% = 111 armor left. (Yes i used old forumla too).

You're clearly devoid of any mathematical skills that would enforce your statement. I'm pretty sure armor is still good.

Oh, I didnt factor in TBC? Well lets do that right now. New BC on AD casters you use ALL your spells before gaining full effect, (thus not that good vs tanks as you think).

Now onto math. 120 armor - 25% = 90 armor or the old TBC, which is (200 - 45 - 15) - 40%. Which equals 84 armor left. With that math I seriously can't understand what you are trying to get out of arguing armor being worse off than before. ADC items nerfed mean they can't DPS tanks down as fast anyhow, so armors better than before and health was always good hence Season 2 Warmogs nerf as it defends against both magic and physical. That is just how mechanics work. Armor and MR scale better than you have more health and vs enemy damage.

You don't get my point. Armor has been nerfed  you can't deny that one.
Before armor and resistances got nerfed, they did nerf tanks. Tanks were pretty weak already in end of season 2 (not all but most). 
Now they decided to nerf price of armor and magic resistance while nerfing their stats, while buffing armor penetration.
You really think that doesn't affects pure tanks ability at all?
Heck I saw in pro match where they did pretty much instagib rammus. Yeah that guy who has pretty good armor and magic resistance bonus when using skills.
There is no reason to play pure tank anymore. 

"New BC on AD casters you use ALL your spells before gaining full effect,"
Ad casters aren't the only ones using the penetration and BC. 
It's enough that someone in your team has BC and ad casters can still benefit from it

You just don't seem to get it. That it's not just a nerfs on ad item or nerfs on defensive items. It's champions too. There are champions who can fare pretty well with no items. Not to mention that I didn't see ad nerf even huge one. They farm anyway all day long, while tanks barely get some farm for their items.

Please play some games as PURE TANK (which means no damage items at all) and you will notice how fast you will die these days. Then come to tell me that nerf was reasonable. We already had hard time before this pre-season update, and they just made it worse.

Warmog was always a more of a bruiser item than a tank item. Nerfing warmog they did nerf bruisers. 
But please tell me how you're going to counter %HP damage now? Building armor or more magic resistance? When ap casters have pretty much max penetration these days while doing some %HP damage same time. It was trouble some even in season 2 when someone got all of their penetration items ready.

PS: why did you even bother to make calculations? Simply because you did just show them that we were right with the nerf. You should also know that more armor we have the more %penetration will damage us.

Your clearly dumb, my math clarified the armor effectiveness after penetration. Ok, they took off 9 armor off FH, and thats it. Sure its more expensive, 20 more gold for 5 less armor doesn't amount to much, its just for the early game

Oh and I have played many champions pure tank. I played, Shen, Malph, Mundo, Olaf, Rammus, even Vlad and Morde as pure tank and did just fine.

"You should also know that more armor we have the more %penetration will damage us."

That may very well be the dumbest thing I've heard, you first off take less damage with more armor always. Second off, %penetration will ignore the higher armor values (which give diminished percentage) anyways.

It's enough that someone in your team has BC and ad casters can still benefit from it

So AD casters are gonna waste their effort on tanks to begin with rather than killing carries?

But please tell me how you're going to counter %HP damage now? Building armor or more magic resistance? When ap casters have pretty much max penetration these days while doing some %HP damage same time.

How many AP carries do % hp damage, oh yea Eve which is current HP, and Morde which wouldnt target the tank anyways with it.

And arguing Rammus as a bad tank now is pointless, he was already bad.

Sersiouly, I'm dumb when I point out that your own calculations proves that they did indeed nerf armor and magic resistance? Please find a mirror and look at yourself.

"Oh and I have played many champions pure tank. I played, Shen, Malph, Mundo, Olaf, Rammus, even Vlad and Morde as pure tank and did just fine."
I kind of doubt it. Let me guess, you did build Sunfire cape to all of them? Abysal scepter to malphite? You know... that bruiser item. I kind of doubt that you didn't make any HP items to any of those. Mundo can't be called even as tank. Simply because he can be ignored in team fights and he doesn't have anything that might even control the flow of battle.
Funniest yet, you call people dumb when you think that olaf is a tank.

You know there was a day when tanks didn't need to build a single item that gives them damage in order to be useful.

"That may very well be the dumbest thing I've heard, you first off take less damage with more armor always. Second off, %penetration will ignore the higher armor values (which give diminished percentage) anyways."
What, so you say that if I have 300 armor, and you have let's say 30% armor penetration. That you will actually penetrate less armor? Than when I have 100 armor and you have 30% armor penetration?
300/100 = 3                                   100/100=1
3x30= 90                                       1x30=30
300-90= 210                                  100-30=70
Please what ever you are smoking give that same stuff to me. Because It's pretty obvious that % penetration is better when tanks have more armor.
Plus I have never heard that there is "dismishing" penetration. Though I have heard that they now calculate % penetration before the flat one. Which makes huge difference.
Now just to make things clear. I did mean that more armor you have, more armor you will lose because of armor penetration. I didn't mean that you take more damage. 
Since you obviously didn't get my point.

So in another words, getting resistance isn't worth it. You barely survive any longer than you would with no resistance items. That's why all stacks HP, because it's more efficient.

"So AD casters are gonna waste their effort on tanks to begin with rather than killing carries?"
Never said that you should focus tanks first. Why in hell would you even focus a tank? Oh wait you are probably talking about bruisers since you have proven that you can't see the difference between the two. Though in some situations it's not bad idea to take out tank/bruiser first.

"How many AP carries do % hp damage, oh yea Eve which is current HP, and Morde which wouldnt target the tank anyways with it."
I don't like to call people idiots unless they start insulting or prove that they are. But in this case, yeah you are an idiot.
Brand, elise, amumu, nasus (can be made ap), fizz (W works like garen's ult), Warwick, Kog'maw (yes he can be played as ap).

"And arguing Rammus as a bad tank now is pointless, he was already bad."
Actually he was good, only problem was that he had no lane where to be. Specially since they nerfed his jungling ability. Also I should tell you that Rammus was used in last tournament once.

You're honestly stupid and putting words in my mouth. Thank you for your useless paragraph

  nasus (can be made ap),

That may very well prove your abysmal skills at this game if you think that is even remotely viable. That is probable the end all, dumbest thing I've ever seen you say and I seriously doubt anything you say now is worthy of reading now.

Also I should tell you that Rammus was used in last tournament once.

Doesn't mean its good.

Funniest yet, you call people dumb when you think that olaf is a tank.

Building him pure tank means no offensive items, and you can do that. Derp. Let's see Ninja Tabs, Warmogs, FH, Randiuns, Shurelias, GA, SV.

Brand, elise, amumu, nasus (can be made ap), fizz (W works like garen's ult), Warwick, Kog'maw (yes he can be played as ap).

Ok Mumu and Brand's is ~2%, which is non existent since its 20 damage per 1000 HP, which gets mitigated by MR. Fizz WOULDN'T EVER FOCUS A TANK, WW is a OffTank. And Kog as ADC will kill tanks faster than AP.

Guess why people pick ADC? To kill tanks. Why is there % max HP, so you don't just stack HP and is counterable.

Though in some situations it's not bad idea to take out tank/bruiser first.

You're supposed to kill the tank line because in pro games they position around their tanks and you can't reach their carries with your carries unless you kill the tanks, and if you try to ignore them you take FREE damage.

Plus I have never heard that there is "dismishing" penetration

I said diminished percentage, which pertains to armor giving less percent the more you acquire.

What, so you say that if I have 300 armor, and you have let's say 30% armor penetration. That you will actually penetrate less armor? Than when I have 100 armor and you have 30% armor penetration?

You have 210 armor which gives 67% reduction rather than 300 armor and 75% reduction, thats an 8% difference you idiot.

So in another words, getting resistance isn't worth it. You barely survive any longer than you would with no resistance items. That's why all stacks HP, because it's more efficient.

Health is obviously better early game, and always will be, armor and MR is late game. But health, doesn't increase effective heals and reduce life steal effects. So people get ARMOR and MR, still.

You sound like an idiot because you can't proof read and the most stupid stuff and make it sound correct just because you "say it", without any logic or elaboration.

"You're honestly stupid and putting words in my mouth. Thank you for your useless paragraph"
Unless you haven't realized already only one doing that is you. And I can even prove it, since you obviously did that on this reply.
And my calculations did pretty much prove my point, how useless it's to buy armor or magic resistance in large quantities.

"That may very well prove your abysmal skills at this game if you think that is even remotely viable. That is probable the end all, dumbest thing I've ever seen you say and I seriously doubt anything you say now is worthy of reading now."
Now this is one of your claims that where you were putting words in my mouth. I NEVER claimed that AP Nasus is viable. I only said that he can be build that way, and he will do %hp damage too.

"Doesn't mean its good."
Irrelevant. Why? Simply because rammus is champion who gains a lot of armor and magic resistance even without items. If they kill rammus in instant, that should already tell how much new penetration hurts tanks.

"Building him pure tank means no offensive items, and you can do that. Derp. Let's see Ninja Tabs, Warmogs, FH, Randiuns, Shurelias, GA, SV."
Warmog is bruiser item. And beside of that Olaf gains damage from health. That doesn't make health op, it just makes olaf op.
Also I should mention to you that Shurelias is a offensive item by all means, specially to olaf who like cooldown reduction so that he can spam his skills for damage.

"Ok Mumu and Brand's is ~2%, which is non existent since its 20 damage per 1000 HP, which gets mitigated by MR. Fizz WOULDN'T EVER FOCUS A TANK, WW is a OffTank. And Kog as ADC will kill tanks faster than AP."
1. Amumu is one of the most popular jungler in current meta. Even I have played as amumu and dominated teams. If you seriously say that Amumu's damage is non existance, you have proven little you know about this game.
He can make burst with his Q, and Ultimate, while his W and E makes very good sustained damage. Which does bigger damage than garen or olaf in team fights. Specially if people build bruisers.
2. Brand? I'm starting to think that you are trolling here. And you simply stated that there are no other hp% damagers than 2 champions. I'm here only pointing out how wrong you are
3. Fizz He still does %hp damage
4. Ww can be build into ap, and this has been seen in tournaments about half year ago. He was even op for while.
5. Not sure does ap or adc kog kill tanks faster, but regargless, he scales with ap, and AP kog'maw use to be very popular until they did nerf him.
6.I forgot to mention that Malzahar is also very good ap carry to do hp% damage. He is good against squishy teams, and tanky teams. I would even go as far to claim that he is op in current meta and counter meta.
7. It's funny how you "forgot" to mention elise.

"You're supposed to kill the tank line because in pro games they position around their tanks and you can't reach their carries with your carries unless you kill the tanks, and if you try to ignore them you take FREE damage."
First of all Olaf can't prevent anyone in any reasonable sense to reach their carries. He only has Q for slow. While garen has literally nothing from preventing. He can silence, but that doesn't prevent from moving.
Still here you go and claim that they are tanks.
Now if you go and ignore their carries, you get even MORE FREE DAMAGE to you.
So either you take just small amount of damage from tanks/bruisers, or you get huge load of damage from carries.

"I said diminished percentage, which pertains to armor giving less percent the more you acquire."
I don't give a f*ck, I just wanted you to give me sources for this information.

"You have 210 armor which gives 67% reduction rather than 300 armor and 75% reduction, thats an 8% difference you idiot."
Wtf how is that even relevant to my point? I was simply saying that getting more armor is useless against %penetration, yes it gives you more resistance, but it's not effective as building health since it penetrates armor too much.
300 armor was just example for calculations.

"Health is obviously better early game, and always will be, armor and MR is late game. But health, doesn't increase effective heals and reduce life steal effects. So people get ARMOR and MR, still."
Wrong, people tend to get damage items in early game while getting penetration for late game. Armor and MR defiantly has more use in early game than in end game where they are already countered.

"You sound like an idiot because you can't proof read and the most stupid stuff and make it sound correct just because you "say it", without any logic or elaboration."

You know what? Only thing you have done since your first comment. Is that you have only been insulting people without actually backing up. Did you even bother to read your replies? There is pretty much one insult per sentence.
Usually when people start insulting that much, they have already lost argument. I think you have some personal issues which you should fix.
If this would've been a live debate tournament, you would've been lost times ago.

Cool story, I'm not reading a single word from this paragraph because your mentioning of AP Nasus has rendered your statements to be false and you obviously don't know your facts.

why do you even bother to debate then?
I never said that AP nasus is viable. I only said that he can be build that way. Though some people say that ap nasus is actually better than ad nasus, but I don't care since I don't use him anyway.

But yeah long story short. You are just sore loser who can't do anything else than insult other people and ignore other people's comments when they prove you wrong. Please grow up for your own sake.

First off, you replied to my comment towards Hash and his bad insight, thus you wanted to debate. I made clear facts about the subject matter, and all you do is repeat the exact same things such as no use for armor and such, when I already disproved those theories with math, so if you are going to be redundant they is no point in having this conversation.

To question my maturity is absurd if you think I'm a sore loser, which is something people say when they have nothing diligent to say.

Debate is different than simply just insulting. Beside you need two people for tango. In another words, you obviously wanted to debate or flame these forums when you made your comment after my reply.

See you make so many strawmen here. I never claimed that there is no use in armor. I only claimed that getting more armor isn't worth of the money.

And when you "disproved" with your math I did also add my math and explained why your math is actually proving my case. This one you totally ignored.

I haven't ignored any single point. I have always made counter argument. While you aren't adding anything new expect insult and ignoring my rebuttals. Only you see that there is no point in conversation any more simply because you already feel that you can't add anything anymore. Simply because deep inside of you know that you have already lost. So instead of admitting that you were wrong, you are trying to find excuse to run away.

"

The fact that you are going to ignore opponents arguments simply because one statement. Is nothing more than same stuff that kindergarden kids does. 
Beside The fact that I did answer to every argument that you made before even making comment about your maturity already says that I have already answered and added diligently more arguments.

PS: Still waiting for you to actually counter rebuttal that I made to your arguments. Instead of crying "but, but, but he said that nasus can be build ap"

Ok how does my math prove your point exactly, with my calc. the target remains with more armor after penetration and reduction than before. So I think I proved my case that armor isn't worse than before.

Counter arguing everything is kind of pointless when you are trying to get under my skin just because you want to continue a useless argument. 60% of your paragraph was repeating things about my "maturity" which has no place in this. Clearly you nit pick at random stuff that has nothing to do with the topic. Please remove your irrelevant spiels  and stick to the topic at hand.

I'm guessing you're gonna say something about not counter arguing again. Well thank you for repeating things over and over again, and this is why ignore your points.

Were talking about HP vs Armor/MR here. I said HP better early game, armor is better late game. I made a formula to even prove that a 200 armor tank will have more armor now than before. That's basically it, you can dick ride Hashinshin some more for his QQ post. I really don't care at this point.

And dare you my maturity for ending a useless argument, will make you seem butthurt for something I'm trying to end. And I know you're gonna write another really long paragraph but I advise against it because; Who's gonna read it?