Season 3 Jungle - Day 1 Summary

Alright so the first batch of the season 3 videos has gone up and it's time to give my initial thoughts. There won't be a tier list this time around because frankly nothing much has changed. Zed sucks as a jungler (can't gank) so just assume he's like tier 3 or something. Anyways the season 3 jungle is neither good nor bad. The season 3 jungle is just different. I overreacted a bit on the Lee Sin video but it is because I had such high hopes placed on him to dominate the new jungle that once I started noticing how painful it was for him...well my optimism took a nose-dive. Then I played Diana and Darius and my faith in the new jungle was renewed. I decided from then on to be neutral on it. I need to, as well as everyone else, accept that the new jungle is going to be different and thus new junglers will excel.

Turns out though that most junglers clear fine albeit they're forced to take the machete every single time. I'm sure there will be some junglers that can probably take something else. Leashing has been removed and it's more just the jungler tanking the monsters while his allies attack it. It's not really a big deal considering everyone has 2 more potions to play with and you don't have to worry about someone messing up the leash. That said the removal of leashing was a very important thing. It made it so a jungler could no longer receive a leash so strong that they could hold onto smite and take out the other camp then go gank someone at level 3, double buffed and before their target has even passed level 2.

A few people said I was complaining too much about being forced to start machete or that you require a leash now. What I can tell you is that these people misunderstood what I said and (some of) the most vocal ones are idiots.

Machete - It is basically (at this point) forced onto every jungler of the game. If you want to jungle you pretty much have to take it. The time difference between taking it and not taking it is rather staggering. Without a machete - most junglers add upwards to 30 seconds to their clear times and definitely suffer in the sustain category as well. I have mixed feelings about being forced to start with it. On one hand it's really sad that we won't be having some of those creative starts that gave some junglers an advantage over others. In Season 1 if you could take boots (while most could only take cloth) you had a massive advantage. If you could survive with just a scepter you had a better gold advantage as well. It's minor sure but it made it so scouting your opponent was important. But on the other hand - the machete becomes the spirit stone which in turn becomes 3 incredibly unique items. We're trading the early game versatility for the later game.

Some people were stupid enough to say that you were FORCED to take boots in the season 2 jungle. There is a difference between being forced and it being the best choice. Even in tournaments you may have seen players take cloth armor (mostly on Mundo) or regrowth pendant. Those times weren't the most common but they happened. Boots just ended up being the best option but that's what it was - just an option albeit the best.

Leashing - Yes I did complain about leashing but people didn't bother to understand why. In the season 1 jungle, leashing came very late into the game. We had gotten used to junglers having to suffer the jungle by themselves and you had to be tanky OR you had to be creative. There were elaborate pathing routes for a multitude of things. You could even take paths where you didn't take all your buffs till level 3-4. This is how some junglers overcame the fact that buff starts weren't all too great for everyone or the longer spawn times. Leashing sort of broke some junglers when it came out. Then in season 2 - non buff starts were straight out stupid. You were now forced to accept the leash because it was the best thing that you could have. However it didn't it was a death sentence if you didn't get one. If you got invaded or your teammates only had time for a feather leash you'd still be fine.

If you're forced to get a leash while the small camps aren't nearly as valuable as the buffs (and non buff paths aren't viable) then it gives too much power to control junglers and early invades. Imagine being invaded and forced out of your blue. You have now lost your blue. What are you going to do now? Farm the small camps? Yeah that's going to be hell. Can you take your red buff by yourself? Maybe but even if you do you're going to get your ass kicked so hard. If you avoid your buff because you can't handle it alone then that's just asking for a control jungler to come in and harass you to kingdom come. If your teammates give you the strong leash you need then they likely are going to suffer as well or some teammates will just tell you to go screw yourself.

So in short - it's about me being fearful of giving so much importance to getting that good start and that if you get screwed over there is no way to actually recover. The small camps are nowhere near in value to the big camps yet some junglers just get stomped by the big camps.

Lee Sin

Somehow he didn't come out feeling so good. I don't want to give up on him yet though. I feel something may have gone wrong or I have to give credit to the suggestion of using Q first seeing as the assistant mobs to the main monsters of each camp are wimps. As far as these first two tests go - Lee Sin did not perform so well. Unlike those hasty idiots who say he is trash tier because of this - he is merely just not feeling godly.

Warwick and Fiddlesticks

What can I say? They feel amazing again. Fiddlesticks got significantly faster and his sustain is utterly awesome. Even if he doesn't get his blue I'm betting he could just buy some mana pots to begin the game with seeing as he doesn't need any health potions. Hell one could even take the machete and that one bottle item for some nifty starts. Fiddlesticks is definitely looking better than before.

Warwick is feeling some sustain love. He's one of the junglers that basically makes incredible use of the machete. He's slightly faster than before. I feel we have to wait and see if the new jungle lets him just transition smoothly to level 6 when he starts becoming a bigger threat.

Nautilus

He's going to need a leash. Without a leash he is going to be murdered by puny ghosts or some jungler deciding he doesn't like his face. That said once he reaches level 3 he starts destroying the camps. I think the machete-spirit stone item just took his clearing speeds to a new level. Sure his first clear is still mediocre but he's going to become a lawnmower.

Maokai

He's the same damn thing. I mean we'll have to see what happens to early ganking and that may affect his allure but I'm certain he'll be fine. He's one of the best in season 3 from what I've seen so far. Nothing more to say than that actually.

Diana

My she is lovely in the new jungle. She didn't get faster but the machete item and evolutions is awesome on her. She's a fast jungler and she's going to strongly benefit from the increased gold from the jungle. She revs up and starts annihilating camps and will likely be one of the junglers who can keep up with the lanes and perhaps even surpass them. She is contending with Elise for the best AP jungler spot.

Trundle

I can't give any comment on him till I see him in a real game. Trundle isn't a bad jungler and likely never will be. He's basically the same thing here as he is in season 2. It just depends on what the enemy decides to do. He excels vs teams with few tanks so even if he junglers better it largely will depend on the team comp of the enemy team.

Dr. Mundo and Shyvana

They're, once again, the fastest junglers in the game. Their sustain is just as bad as it is in season 2 with cloth armor but of course you'll be helping them out a bit with a good leash. That said I think these two might get nerfed at some point. They're fast, they farm well and the jungle gives more gold. I'm pretty sure no one wants to see a super farmed Mundo or Shyvana running out of the jungle with their super self-sufficient kits.

Sejuani and Hecarim

They're basically the same thing as Nautilus albeit better all around at clearing (early). Sejuani is one of the best junglers in the game with farm. Yes I am bold enough to make that statement. Her problem has always been that she needs too many different stats to work out. However a crap load of items have been released that give her what she wants - cooldown reduction, health, magic pen, resistances. I feel she'll see some love this season. Then Hecarim is just weird. I'm wondering if he'd be fine farming items and then entering a fight or if he needs to gain a desperate advantage and thus still has to relegate more time to ganking than farming.

Darius and Jarvan

Jarvan is exactly the same thing as he was before for his first clear HOWEVER my flag did get destroyed thus I'd assume he's slightly better. That said he's one of the junglers with the most dependency for gold and items. I'm looking forward to seeing how this increase in gold affects him. If he's able to build up an armory before team fights happen then his attractiveness as a pick is definitely going to soar. As for Darius -I was actually worried about him not being able to jungle as well as before. I mean the guy lacks sustain and Lee Sin didn't do so well. Darius deals a lot of damage and that machete just makes him MELT the camps. He's EXACTLY the same speed as season 2 but with the increased gold gain this means a lot for him. He's very fast and can now supplement his murder power with proper farm.

Kha`Zix and Fiora

Fiora is still slow. Her usefulness will be determined by the flow of the lanes. Now Kha`Zix actually got better. He definitely got faster and his W turned out to flourish with the machete. Just like Hecarim it is up in the air whether or not he'll be good. Does he need to have a significant advantage (one that just farming can't get by itself) or can he just stay in the jungle forever?

Annie and Brand

Admittedly these two were a bit of a joke. The AP junglers that could probably destroy the season 3 jungle that aren't Diana or Elise are Cassiopeia and Karthus. Still I wanted to try these two because if these two could jungle then they'd be awesome. Sadly they floundered. I'll be mingling with Malzahar, Cassiopeia and Karthus.

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Comments

  • #61 DanmakuHeaven

    I run Shyvana 21-9-0 with LS Quints/AD Marks/Armor Seals/Mrlvl Glyphs

    Starting red (w/o Leash) ending at blue at 3:25-3:26 at 400 hp.

    I really would consider this as an alternative, since it gives you the option to opt for golem crest and get mobi/swift/zerk boots instead still retaining the tenacity and beefing up, as she scales heavily on attack/movement speed. The upside is that if you get that crest and BotrK you deal insane damage to objectives and also have a guaranteed slow decent damage and a good lifesteal, the rest of course will go into defensive items starting with phage or sunfire.

    The downside is that this build is kinda expensive, but by all means if you farm well, you should try it.

     

     

  • #60 stuffedcheesybread

    This is probably gonna sound stupid, and is probably not ever going to work but I just I wanted to throw it out there. Wouldn't these jungle changes be good for Nasus jungle? He has decent passive sustain and is a single target oriented bruiser( which are supposed to benefit most from the changes), and with the possible return of farm junglers, could this put him in a better spot or at least make him a bit less situational? Not to mention that he is a pretty good duelist, especially against autoattack reliant junglers, so this would make him more resistant to invades. I have never played Nasus as a jungler but I am tempted to try it once the changes take effect.

  • #59 inb4jelly

    thanks good sir

  • #58 jjjlmx

    Anyone else tried Karma in this jungle already? I did it, and she can clear until lvl4 with a blue start without a leash, in about 3:50 ~ (i think that is even faster than Lee in the same route) with 4 pots and a mana pot (or you stuck without mana in blue and die there)

    She came up the jungle with half health tough.

    Last edited by jjjlmx on 11/20/2012 3:17:20 AM
  • #55 DarkSideCreo

    So, in the shyv/gold video you stated that gold increase is a joke. Does this mean its a massive nerf to jungler in general? I mean, in s2 i got used to being basically a support/tank like 80% of the time, and I thought they want to change exactly that - give us more build options and help us play carry junglers, if we want to. So we're still stuck supporting/tanking, but with harder time in the jungle? Just wondering, cause seems I misunderstood riot's intentions towards s3 jungling.

  • #56 MerryLane

    It will depend on what changes Riot will still do with the jungle.

    When they first remade the jungle, the situation was pretty bad (you were like lvl 4 when soloes where lvl 6, while you were even before), then they buffed it up a bit like a week after.

    They will prolly do the same, they'll monitor stats, and then they'll tweak the numbers up according to what they want.

    Also, atm the jungle isn't more rentable before lvl 11, but something to be noted is that since jungling minions are harder to kill, laners won't be that incenticized to take them.
    They would loose hp/mana/time.

    That and the fact that apparently they nerfed the gold income of everyone but the jungler (equal) and the support (buffed), it will maybe mean that the situation will prolly be better than in S2.

    I guess Stonewall bumping repeatedly in LoL's forum means he understood the situation will change and the junglers' income will for sure be raised.
    He maybe want them to react as fast and as strong as possible ^^

    Last edited by MerryLane on 11/18/2012 9:32:18 PM
  • #57 DarkSideCreo

    Alright, thanks for sharing your thoughts :) I will wait for updates from stonewall and riot to see whats what.

  • #54 inb4jelly

    JAX PLSZ

  • #52 goldswordlink1

    can u do one for udyr, was gonna say mumu, but i tried him and he is fairly good. and nunu lol double smite wat ever

  • #53 MerryLane

    Udyr's video was released 3/4 hours ago.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aGwMccj5uw&feature=g-all-u

    Just sign-up & follow stonewall's youtube ^^

  • #49 pnsteva

    Any thought's about Wukong in s3 jungle?

  • #48 guy420

    What about bankplank?

  • #44 CrazedMcCrazy

    After seeing your 'Season 3 Jungle - Gold "increase" ' video, this post and it's references to how well champions will do with the increased gold became totally irrelevant.

    You just showed us that there's no actual valid and meaningful increase in gold, so what's the point? What's the point of this new jungle?

  • #47 Waaargh

    Read up on the Youtube debate - it is mentioned jungle only get richer lategame. That is not necessarily a problem. Look into it and report back with numbers please, CrazedMcCrazy.

  • #50 CrazedMcCrazy

    Oh silly you, you can call me by my first name.

    Anyway, cool that's what I've been mostly getting from my youtube comment, as well.

    Thanks for clarifying :).

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