Jungle Tier List Breakdown (part 5)

Kayle


Speed A+ - Not much to say here except that she just grinds down camps with just her E. It requires proper positioning so that the AoE takes full effect of course. She's fast throughout the game though she begins to drop off in speed if she doesn't build some early attack speed. Without her E her clearing is one of the worst.

Resilience C - Kayle is relatively easy to shut down in the jungle. She tends to fall off just by herself if she doesn't get some influx of gold from ganking or dragons anyways. She's not a strong jungle duelist and she's very reliant on gold for any serious non-support builds. I constantly say that Kayle is not a strong duelist in the jungle but it's often refuted because people don't seem to understand the biggest difference in jungle duels than lane duels. In the jungle, the best junglers will abuse line of sight to no end. Characters with targeted abilities are a disadvantage due to that. Kayle is rather fragile early and is more akin to a "ranged" bruiser due to her reliance on her E. She relies on ranged to beat some bruisers but if she wants to fight them in the jungle - she'll often not be able to use her range. She'll either be dragged into a bush or ambushed. A character like Darius may lose to her in the lane, but in the jungle she will be forced to enter the bushes if she wants to fight him while characters like him (skillshots) can take shots at her even if she was the one hiding.

Build B+ - Kayle has a multitude of builds from AP to support. She has builds that are relatively unique to her thanks to her hybrid nature. It is not easy to itemize any of those builds correctly from the jungle though. They all will suffer in some way including the support build. The support build will sacrifice the effectiveness of all her jungle aspects as a result of much weaker clearing. Still, she packs utility and that is valued in gold. Her ultimate is potentially priceless and it earns her points. In short, many builds but all suffer due to jungle depravation.

Sustain C - Kayle is not a sustained jungler. She suffers in all its forms early on and then only recovers from one and pads the others. Her early mana and health can be rather atrocious making her very vulnerable. She's heavily reliant on her E to clear as well - combine that with poor mana and long cooldowns and you may have trouble. She is fast but needs items asap in order to maintain that strong speed otherwise it starts to fall off. While it is not a big issue that a damage champion should buy damage - it is an issue if she gets slapped around. Her mana improves later when she itemizes for it (regen) but her health doesn't. Luckily she is, as long as she's keeping up, able to kill most camps before they deal any considerable damage.

Ganking B - Her ganking is rather straightforward if albeit still pretty mediocre. It's just a slow with strong damage. The fact that she's ranged (temporarily) gives her the advantage of being able to deal her damage quicker and safer. The problem though is that, at least early, she won't be able to kill anyone (unless she gets help) before her E runs out. They may be too far for her to chase now to melee. Her ganking improves with her ultimate as it makes turret diving safer albeit it helps her teammates dive better than it helps her (she's ranged after all).

Dueling B - This has already been explained back in the resilience portion. I'll just add that at least she has some obscene damage that few other junglers can match. If she doesn't get herself trapped then she can turn the tide easily.

Invasion B - She's fast and can pop in and out. Not much to say about this.

M. Transition A - Her ultimate alone gives her powerful transition. Whether or not she contributes much after that depends on how well she did earlier. A well timed ultimate can win team fights albeit it doesn't stop any crowd control. If she's rolling in gold -she can carry. If she's not then at least she has her ultimate.

L. Transition A - It's the same thing. The only thing I could possibly add is that Kayle's damage becomes obscene late game.

Olaf


Speed S - Olaf is one of the fastest junglers in the game albeit he runs the risk of being easily murdered in his own jungle in order to maintain god speeds. He is so fast he even outpaces the respawn times of the camps. He can slow down a bit in order to manage his low health and it will not affect him too much.

Resilience B - Olaf is one of those bruisers that can itemize on a budget and go full tank and still deal considerable damage thanks to his abilities. This, combined with his fast farming, means that harassment is only a stalling factor against him. Sure it can stop him from ganking as effectively but he can farm up to be more useful in teamfights instead. Olaf will recover simply through farming and buying items to become tanky.

Build B+ - As it was already stated, Olaf does have some high price builds but his jungle builds are all very effective budget builds that aren't out of the way for him to purchase. Most commonly used is the support/tank build which still deals considerable damage thanks to his E. Aura items have multiplying price tags therefore the jungle gold is being stretched out rather effectively.

Sustain B+ - Olaf is actually a very sustained character. It is true that his super speed is reliant on him jungling while half dead but that only applies to the early game. Later on his clearing becomes more reliant on his mana pool and cooldowns more than anything. As he levels up - all he needs to do is spam his Q and grind the camps down. He will have mana issues throughout but at least he is no slouch with his auto attacks. His health sustain is very powerful throughout the game (with his W) so that grants him more points. He loses points from his final score for his rocky start and his mana dependency.

Ganking C+ - Olaf's ganking is always something for contention. Some players, including pros, will say his ganking is very strong but when you compare it to other junglers you can see that it is much weaker. He packs a lot of damage in his ganks and the slow is very strong especially if you chain it. The problem is that, at long range, it is easy to dodge by simply walking erratically. To add to that, if you miss the first axe then the gank will go to hell rather quickly. It's one of those type of ganks that "if it works there is a high chance of killing the target but it's more likely to fail" type of ganks.

Dueling S - Short of finding a nearly dead Olaf in his own jungle - never approach an Olaf unless you're willing to die. Olaf is arguably the strongest jungle duelist in the game. He only loses a few points because he's often in a negative position while jungling (he's low on health) so he doesn't get to exploit this often unless he's the one doing the hunting which puts him at a disadvantage of being in enemy territory. Still, he'll pretty much slaughter anyone in a straight up fight and chase them down in a kill.

Invasion A+ - Combine his ungodly speed with his godly dueling and you have a powerful invader. He loses points because, again, he's at a disadvantage mana wise and health wise often and is basically exposing himself. Still, Olaf takes what he wants.

M. Transition A - I think I'm just repeating myself here. I already stated just how his builds work and that alone gives him almost unrivaled transition strength. He's fighter, not just a tank, that can build pure defensive/utility items and still destroy people. His ultimate also gives him more defensive capabilities including the priceless Freddie Mercury buff (can't be stopped). Very few other junglers have gold efficiency comparable to Olaf or could even farm as well as him. Combine those two traits and this beast comes to mid game being able to provide damage, tankiness and utility for his team.

L. Transition A+ - The same as before except Olaf reaches a point where it takes a full teams focus to take him down before he devours someone. If they focus him then Olaf's carry can finish them. If not then Olaf takes out their carry. That or Olaf can just be a very powerful bodyguard/peeler for his own carry.

Fiddlesticks


Speed C+ - Fiddlesticks is slow. His speed did improve from season 2 but it is still slow. What is frustrating about his clearing is that his Dark Wind can go full stupid and bounce randomly and to the wrong targets. At least, thanks to season 3, his clearing became steady as the game goes on.

Resilience B - At least all he needs is to rank up his W in order to jungle. He can even rank it up to level 3 and then rely on his dark wind to take out camps and go a supportish build. The guy is a CC bot and isn't dangerously reliant on blue like many make him out to be - outside of his initial clearing first. Constant harassment will make his jungle phase hell but he'll bounce back eventually. Take his blue buff to slow him down considerably and constantly harass him to keep him down - just remember it will not knock him out of the game.

Build B - Fiddlesticks has some nifty build choices. He can go support or AP (though his farming is awful) but it is preferable for him (at least as a jungler) to go some form of utility AP. Purchasing offensive auras like Shurelias and Abyssal help plenty and they're very affordable on a jungle budget. Unless he gets fed, Fiddlesticks will not farm enough to afford his best builds. This is what detracts points from him - his jungling is gimped item wise and is carried by his kit.

Sustain C - We all know the answer to this. The guy is incredibly sustained health wise but his mana just destroys him. His speed maintains an average pace but it drops to a halt if his mana runs out. Mana issues everywhere that can only be evened out to keep an average pace instead of a godlike one.

Ganking A/S - The guy has a ranged hard CC - that's instantly a huge booster for ganking. He also has a ranged silence that, if conditions are met, can silence a target multiple times. They aren't that strong at rank 1 but still. He is slow though so chasing a target is rather difficult for him and he also severely lacks damage unless he was able to position himself well during the gank for his drain. His ultimate ramps up the ganking godliness by giving him devastating AoE damage and a blink. It pretty much helps him initiate blink ganks with devastating damage. The only issue comes that wards devastate his ability to gank more than plenty of other champions because of his poor speed and his ultimate's channeling time.

Dueling S* - Fiddlestick's dueling is rather unique in that his match ups are potentially the best across the board - when defending. Unless you catch him completely off guard and afk, you probably won't kill Fiddlesticks. He will fear you, drain you then silence you as you try to run and just jab at you. He likely won't kill you and you definitely won't kill him. It's the same situation if he invades you. You kind of just ignore him. If he looks for a fight in your jungle then at the very most your teammate can come in and help you murder him seeing as he's easy to kill. But 1v1 is just dumb. Some junglers can outdamage his drain (Mundo) but the trade off is often not worth it seeing as it will take too long. It's like if you were a giant school bully that you were picking on a nerd. Sure you can easily take on the nerd but the nerd vomits on you with every punch you take at him. You can eventually kick his ass but now you're covered in vomit. Is it worth it?

Invasion C+ - Too much reliance on his mana and cooldowns to be a proper invader. On the other hand he is really strong at taking out big camps. It's just too risky for him to do but technically doable.

M. Transition A - Fiddlestick's mid game transition is definitely his best. He's a CC bot and he's a jungler that can poke with his incredible bouncing silence of doom. His base values are definitely strong as well so they are able to carry his jungle budget ass. In short, strong AoE damage, tons of CC and easy early itemization.

L. Transition B - His damage starts to fall off here - either that or his survivability. He can pack utility sure but even that starts being less effective. Unlike other CC bots - Fiddlesticks tends to drop easier as late game rolls around simply because he won't be able to outdrain the damage or he'll just get cced and chewed out. His late game transition is made better if there is another tank/CC bot in the team though. Having him be your only one pretty much guarantees he'll be slaughtered.

Nocturne


Speed A - He's fast and he maintains it even when building pseudo-tanky. It does require him abusing his Q like no tomorrow but it's not a big deal.

Resilience B - If it wasn't for his level 6 ganking, Nocturne's resilience would be lower. He's surprisingly easy to murder in his own jungle if jumped though he'll absolutely cut down anyone who screws up. He is dependent on mana early and, if mana screwed, will have all his other aspects crumble before him. In short, his early jungling is pretty flimsy but it stabilizes later. Hitting him early is recommended to keep him down. His ultimate will allow him to gank later though and could return him into the game.

Build A - This is a place where Nocturne exceeds. He has a multitude of builds from support/tank, to straight out assassin, to bruiser and so on. He is able to take hybrid items and make good use of them. The best way to summarize this - he has tons of build options, both fed builds and economic builds, and can easily jump between builds. He can pad any deficiencies of his own team while still dealing respectable damage throughout with good use of his Q.

Sustain B - Nocturne loses points for his first clear. I already made a mention of that. Later on though he starts tearing camps to pieces before they can do any considerable damage to him (which he'll heal anyways) and his mana issues won't be as crippling. He'll maintain a strong pace and go about his day.

Ganking A/S+ - Nocturne's ganking is his best strength. It's strong early as his combines high damage with a hard CC albeit his high damage comes at the cost of potentially weird use of his gap closer and his hard CC can be unreliable. Anyways, once he gains his ultimate he is able to completely ignore most conventional ward spots by using his long range gap closer. It can be predicted and, if not followed up properly, can be disastrous but it still guarantees two things. It guarantees that the target will haul ass to avoid being killed and, as long as Nocturne hasn't ganked, the enemy will not be as aggressive unless they know Nocturne isn't anywhere near them.

Dueling B+ - Nocturne isn't the best of the jungle duelists though he admittedly can kill a lot of them. His abilities aren't reliable and that's why he has issues with some opponents. If he ambushes someone though he'll likely tear them to pieces. Nocturne duels are pretty much about who jumps who first.

Invasion A - He's fast and clears camps without using anything but his Q and auto attacks. This progressively gets stronger and his fear is actually pretty useful for escaping (along with his shield). Just fear someone and they'll either stop attacking/using abilities in preparation for the fear or just give up. If they continue chasing - you've likely covered enough distance with your Q that they'll accomplish nothing.

M. Transition B - Now I don't actually see Nocturne as being a character that transitions well unless he goes support/tank build but even then his abilities strongly support an assassin role instead. I figure Nocturne is more of a champion that "resets" fights in that during a fight he'll use his ultimate and target the mvp and go all out. During this instance the enemy team either responds by turning on him or the mvp escapes. Either way the fight has been disrupted because of his maneuver and your team might be able to win the fight either because they focused a tanky character (if he went tank) or because the mvp is either occupied or dead. Nocturne's ability to do this depends on how well he farmed. Admittedly he can farm well and his builds can be very cheap - but even then his purpose is jihad style engagement that is heavily dependant on his team.

L. Transition B+ - Same exact thing except now he has more survivability and probably damage. He's probably easier to kill when fully focused but that would be something you'd want in most cases anyways.

Diana

Speed A+ - Diana is a very fast champion throughout and becomes much faster as the game progresses even with a light item build. Her aoe damage is basically insane.

Resilience B - Diana combines the aspects of a bruiser and an AP character quite nicely. She isn't as dependent on mana as other mana junglers are and her shield basically keeps her from ever dying. Her first clear is mana hungry though so that's a spot where she can be hit. Her dueling is also garbage so constant harassment and beat downs can crush her. Still, she can farm well and her builds are so ungodly efficient that she's hard to keep down forever.

Build A+ - Diana has a multitude of builds and can itemize utility or straight out damage. Both builds are very effective on her and can be bought with a jungler's budget. She is rather tough to kill with just a light amount of survivability so hybrid items are amazing on her. Living shadows is perhaps her best item as a jungler as it combines both survivability with offense and grants her more utility. Items with hybrid stats and utility are her best bet as a jungler and those always prove the most cost effective. Combine that with her excellent farming and you have a very efficient jungler.

Sustain A - Aside from her first clear, she will rarely present any mana issues (Even then she can still jungle thanks to her passive), her shield will prevent all the damage she'd receive and her pace only improves. She is the model of jungle efficiency.

Ganking C/B - Her early ganking is very weak as she has no real crowd control aside from a small melee ranged pull/slow and her damage isn't too reliable early. Once she obtains her ultimate, her ganking becomes stronger but ultimately either difficult or reliant on her teammates.

Initiation Ganks - Her ultimate can be used to quickly close the gap and then lock a target down with her short range cc. The speed and range of her ultimate allows her to easily grab a target almost before they react but her damage takes a huge hit from this. She will not be refreshing her ultimate and thus her damage drops off considerably - this means she relies on her teammate to pick up the kill. She just sets it up rather easily for them.

Damage Ganks - These types of ganks tend to be more difficult to do as she needs to hit her Q first somehow before she initiates the gank. It's basically Diana trying to deal as much damage by refreshing her ultimate.

Dueling C - Diana is a terrible duelist vs other junglers. To put it simply - they're usually tanky and her early damage is terrible. She just gets overwhelmed.

Invasion B+ - She's got speed and super sustain. She's at terrible duelist so she has to look out for that. She's also burning all her spells in order to jungle so there is that too.

M. Transition B+ - Her mid game is great for a jungler. She can pack a considerable amount of utility and survivability. However, it has to be made clear that jungling Diana is more akin to a bruiser than an AP assassin when jungling. Even if she builds damage she will be building hybrid pieces instead. That means her overall damage potential isn't there and she's more of an AP Nocturne instead.

L. Transition B - Same as mid game except the utility items are starting to wear off and her damage may be suffering due to the lack of "true" AP items. Still it's rather strong compared to a lot of junglers. She becomes an initiator at this point especially if she bought herself a Randuin's Omen.

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Comments

  • #55 CrazedMcCrazy

    Lovely article, once more.

    I believe Diana is quite the interesting case, at least for me. She excels at clearing the jungle, no doubt about that: fast clear, doesn't lose much HP nor does she burn through much mana. But as the game goes on, the lack of gold really starts to affect her. Unless you're fed, post-patch you'll rarely manage to carry a game through the jungle, from my experience. And the fed argument is absolutely preposterous, for obvious and not worth mentioning reasons.

    Do please note that I'm talking about Diana post nerfs, obviously, as before she could probably even carry as support or ad carry.

    Like someone else mentioned, it would be interesting to see item suggestions for jungling-Diana, but if I may be truly honest, I'd rather have it being from someone other than stonewall. You're an excellent player and decision-maker, no doubt about that and I give you full credit for it, but usually your builds are far, far from being optimized and well, intelligent. The reason I ask it here is because, as usual, the LoLPro guide is pathetically outdated and, in her particular case, it just seems they picked a random mid guide and tagged it jungle Diana...

    Anyway, the same could be said about Olaf, by the way. For some reason, he's the one char I don't feel the need to immediately rush a Warmog's, even if I probably should, given how OP it is right now. I just want to get him Kindlegem items, because god dammit they just work so well on him (HP + CDR = one happy Olaf)...

  • #52 Interceptor402

    "Kayle is rather fragile early"

    No she isn't. Have you looked at her bases lately? 20.5 Armor and 511 naked health at level one. She's no weaker than Dr. Mundo, except that she doesn't have to kill herself in order to deal damage. Kayle also doesn't need to fight at range in the jungle. This might blow your mind, but Reckoning and Righteous Fury do the same damage at point blank range.

  • #53 StonewallRoG

    She will often have to fight in melee range where other junglers with stronger abilities for dueling will break her in half.

    I honestly don't need you to start your Kayle fanboying in another thread.

  • #54 doomleika

    I'd second this.

    Kayle's playstyle is about 'I slow you and kite you to death so I can hit you million times but you can't hit me.' When you play top Kayle you will notice you will have a lot hard time when you fight champion with gap closer and CC. You will sometimes buy extra wards just to ward the lane bush in order to continue to harass.

    This advantage are nullified at jungle. Bush everywhere, lots of corner, plus your E will not up forever, without Q You can't get enough E off, without E your Q deal rather midcore damage.

    Unless you can predict their burst perfectly(usually you don't have Ulti at the moment, pre-6) Kayle just don't stand toe to toe with other junglers.

  • #56 Interceptor402

    More unsupported hyperbole from Stonewall. Often? Break in half?

    There are other junglers with better dueling kits (Lee Sin will always beat her, for one) but those are specific situations: that doesn't imply that she's "fragile" early. Particularly since she has two disengages. As I said, she's just as tanky as everyone else by the bases, and she outdamages many of them.

    Until Riot nerfed the Machete + Flask start that made Utility excellent for Kayle, I used to run with an Explorer ward and sit on it just to beat up on invaders who thought that they could abuse line of sight. I hope that they bring that combination back again, it was fun.

  • #57 pagansaint

    Any jungle champion that isn't a passive farm into gank CC bot can out duel her, she cannot gain the range to effectively use her kit, fact.

    If you want unsupported hyperbole, look at your own posts. They are wrong and staying wrong.

  • #58 doomleika

    Try that when a Shaco/Lee/Fiddle/Darius is inside your jungle.

    If you are lucky, you will not die.

    Last edited by doomleika: 1/20/2013 9:04:17 PM
  • #59 OuterRaven

    "More unsupported hyperbole from Stonewall".

    Proceeds to do the exact same thing. Hilarious.

     

    Any jungler who is considered a good duelist WILL crush Kayle 1v1. It's not an hyperbole. It's a fact.

    Last edited by OuterRaven: 1/20/2013 8:26:53 PM
  • #51 keybler86

    Stonewall, always been a fan. Obviously we have your input and opinion on who great junglers are, but how about laners *as* a jungler? What I mean is, is there any champ you see in select and just go "hell yes, we already won Top/Mid" that you just synergize completely with, as Y jungler, or just any jungler?

    Keep up the excellent work, as always!

  • #49 exacerberus

    Nocturne's ability to do this depends on how well he farmed. Admittedly he can farm well and his builds can be very cheap - but even then his purpose is jihad style engagement

    1v1 is just dumb. Some junglers can outdamage his drain (Mundo) but the trade off is often not worth it seeing as it will take too long. It's like if you were a giant school bully that you were picking on a nerd. Sure you can easily take on the nerd but the nerd vomits on you with every punch you take at him. You can eventually kick his ass but now you're covered in vomit. Is it worth it?

    Lolled.

    Looking forward to Trundle!

  • #43 chimeraone

    looking forward to jarvan. man mode.

  • #48 exacerberus

    Quote from chimeraone »

    looking forward to jarvan. man mode.

    Search tool works, so just look backwards.

  • #34 Rubicanth

    I don't know why Kayle is so often seen in the jungle (in Tournaments) but only rarely on Top Lane. I think she becomes a monster if she is farmed, what's not the case as a jungler

  • #50 keybler86

    With gold increases in the jungle, you will likely continue to see her. If you're not confident in your (and/or your team's) ganking potential, you can just stay in the jungle, hope your lanes don't feed, and farm your way to teamfight godhood. In other words, it will be easier to afford a carry build for her.

  • #31 Kuroykai

    seriously if you guys have problems with stonewall then just get the fuck out and stop watching his vids or his posts. nothing left to say anymore.

  • #37 Kash

    It is because I love Stonewall that I give him candid feedback on this issue. While the tone is escalating in some places, it is in part because Stonewall went aggressive in his replies. A perfect example of why sometimes silence is a better answer.

    In the end, our favorite jungler should ignore bad players and focus on where he can make a difference. Triage is his concept after all. He should use it as well in writing/communicating in game, not just in deciding which lane to gank :)

  • #38 Kash

    One last point: I feel that a more snarky tone in a video commentary is fine and actually quite enjoy these jokes. 

  • #11 Madderdin

    "Diana has a multitude of builds and can itemize utility or straight out damage. Both builds are very effective"

    Multitude - both builds.

    Multitude - a large indefinite number.
    Both - the two; two considered together.

    Also you seem to be as Lyte would call you "toxic" in your commentary in the  Diana video: "teemo is just fucking feeding" or "fucking useless Teemo" said few times or "Teemo playing blame game like dumbfuck".

    He had a bad game, but there was no need to insult him in your comments.

    You basicly said that in low elo where your teammates are fucking assholes or downright stupid and they are purposely jackasses - But by your comments it seems like you are a very big part of the problem, not the sollution.

    I am not going to comment on your build, there are different ways to build champs and I will just agree to disagree with you on the itemisation - If you build an AP champ with 160 AP at 30 minutes then yes, they are pretty much not dealing damage.

  • #12 Gos123

    If you knew anything about Stonewall, you'd see he's actually a pretty nice guy and knowledgeable about the game, also, Stonewall is generally ok with his teammates, he's just as you would call it"toxic" to idiots in this game, like that Teemo. Anyways, Lyte calls a player toxic if they call someone an idiot.....

  • #14 Madderdin

    The thing is that I dont know him, this was the first video with his commentary I have seen and he has made the worst impression. I probably do not care about knowing anything more about him as a person. Being ok to your friends but treating everyone else like shit is what Riot defines as Toxic and such players make the gaming experience worse for every random player who has a bad game.

    I generally do not agree with Lyte on multitude of  levels, but this isnt one of them.

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