The Freljord Junglers: New Trundle and Sejuani

So the next patch is bringing with it a set of changes (even for Udyr) that will pretty much give me more toys to play with. I am looking forward to the Trundle rework. To some his change might seem minor but it's actually pretty big. It pretty much shoves him back into the spotlight and makes him a lot more viable in this current meta. Whether he becomes a force to be reckoned with is still up in the air. Sejuani is also receiving a change but hers, at least for me, turned out to be a bit less immediately impactful. Before anything is said - her changes are definitely an improvement but, like Trundle, it is still up in the air whether or not she'll be good.

Before I go on with their improvements I should state why they were seen as needing them. The visual remakes were Riot's decision and ultimately they're pretty awesome. I even like Trundle's new look. Sure it gets rid of his goofy looking model but it was hideous (animation wise) close up. Sejuani was just awkward and her sound effects were pretty terrible.

Anyways Trundle wasn't used much in Season 2 and in Season 3 (aside from the start for a bit) for basically the same reason. He's pretty team specific both on his side and on the enemy side. He excelled in games where the enemy only had one tank and he could make them into paper using his ultimate. He excelled greatly with a team that revolves around kiting and mobility. Kiting teams have sort of been phased out by now and everyone and their mother becomes big and beefy in this season. This issue is further exacerbated in Season 3 by the fact that everyone stacks health and he isn't getting anything worthwhile from his ultimate.

Trundle's inherent problems are also the fact that he was designed for Season 1 jungling and thus had high sustain and single target damage. Sustain hasn't been too much of an importance once leashing was introduced and only recently has single target clearing become a bit stronger. Trundle also doesn't scale as well as other champions (damage wise) into late. To add to that his damage builds tend to be expensive! There is also the fact that his animations sucked as in his Q not scaling with attack speed and him effectively nullifying his own attack speed bonuses and his ultimate screwed up chasing too!

Sejuani is a more curious case. When she was released I was all over that champion. She, at the time, fit a lot of things you'd want in a champion. Her damage scaled off of her health, she had insane initiation and she had constant sources of crowd control. However her issues became readily apparent when playing her and then Riot released Nautilus who is/was basically everything she was but better. Sejuani has no survivability or tankiness, dies if an enemy jungler breathes next to her, an expensive build (explained later) and her kit is difficult to use.

Before people go insane I should explain that last bit. Sejuani has pretty high damage for a character of her type. It's arguably amongst the highest of all the (AP) tanks aside from maybe a late game Amumu vs fatties. Her problem is that she has very little means of using it to its full potential. She tends to die very easily and the damage relies on her having her enemies frosted and to be on top of them in the middle of the crossfire. She is prone to getting knocked around, kited or killed before she got to use her damage. God help her if she failed since her cooldowns aren't forgiving either! So in short her issues were ultimately usability issues and the fact that she almost dies after her first clear.

New Trundle

Well let's look at his changes. I'd much strongly prefer to call this an update than buffs and nerfs. Like I said previously, his abilities didn't so much get changed in how they work but basically got touched up to work in the current meta.

His Q didn't change in function really. It also applies a small slow which isn't really there for CC. The important change to his Q is that they improved its functionality by sprucing up the animations. It now interacts properly with attack speed allowing him to invest in attack speed items and no longer screw himself with more levels into his W or buffs from teammates (like Sivir). The slow was placed on it so Trundle doesn't screw himself during chasing because he decided to nom on his target. Old Trundle was buggy in that sometimes you couldn't cancel the animation properly or "froze" him in place for just a bit but that small bit was enough for his target to get away.

His W had the crowd control reduction portion removed and replaced with healing increase. It also had its cooldown raised but with the potential to become lower with more ranks and in fact lower than what it used to be. The attack speed portion was also raised quite considerably at max rank. The numbers change allows him to basically keep it up at all times and make him a significantly stronger fighter while also giving the player incentive to level the ability.

The bigger thing here is the removal of crowd control. In my opinion it's not a big deal. The game has tons of knock ups and silly things that can't really be mitigated so it's not as valuable as it used to be (though it is good). The healing portion synergizes well with his kit though. His ultimate, his passive, his teammates heals and any lifesteal he has will greatly be buffed up with this change. Besides I'd rather be a magnet for crowd control (as a tank) knowing full well that I can quickly make up that health.

His E got a big change actually. It is no longer incredibly powerful at max rank but it's significantly stronger at earlier ranks. It's been standardized to a 35% at all ranks. Ranking up the skill will lower the cooldown of the ability but not the effect. This effectively makes it Trundle's one point wonder (probably) and makes it a bit less stupid late game since it was pretty overpowered. This change makes his W an attractive thing to level and increases both his ganking and his combat effectiveness.

Apparently the slow % has been reverted as of the latest PBE patch. Guess players will now have to decide between utility or fighting prowess.

His ultimate got a significant change. The % of resistances he drains was lowered at all ranks (though in this meta that doesn't matter) but instead of draining a flat amount of health he drains a % amount of health. In most cases this will roughly end up being a bit more than the previous incarnation of the skill but fat targets will give out a better payout. Trundle will still drain the same amount. Trundle also received a massive buff in how his ultimate functions. A previous issue with Trundle's ultimate is that the stats he gains go away quickly. He kind of doesn't get the most of the ability when he gets knocked around or whatever (or his target gets destroyed). Now after fully draining his target his ultimate stat gains will slowly diminish over 5 seconds. This allows Trundle to keep his stats for a bit longer. The animation for it was also touched up and it looks nicer.

Overall Trundle's changes are amazing. He can function the same as he used to but now has can take more offensive builds without wasting any stats due to bad animations and his abilities all needing to be ranked up. He was able to keep his late game power while gaining some mid game power. He gained some insane split pushing potential thanks to his W and the fact that he can bite towers (don't know if they'll remove that though). His ultimate now works effectively against health stackers and can free him up to build other items (again offensive) and become more gold efficient.

Fans of Trundle will not be disappointed by this. It is a great change. Sure aesthetically he is disappointing some people but gameplay wise it is as fun as ever.

New Sejuani

Well her changes are quite all over the place. Hell I still can't give much of an opinion on her until she's released live. The people in the PBE aren't necessarily "good" players so I can't properly test her out.

Her passive was reworked and no longer gives her any frost application or slow. That thing was basically worthless so good riddance. They replaced it with a pretty bad passive too. It gives her slow reduction and 10 armor that scales per level. I see the 10 armor as an obvious nudge to help her early game but 10 armor isn't that impacting and quickly negligible early in the game when she jungles. The slow thing also isn't that significant. I would say it's better than her old passive but still relatively weak for jungling. It eventually becomes helpful for team fights at least.

Her Q got an interesting but welcome change. They lowered it's range, upped its late game cost and it no longer applies frost. Instead it now has a lower cooldown at earlier ranks, it deals % health damage and knocks enemies up into the air. This is a big change. Now she effectively can ram into the front line and chunk a few targets (at least better than before) and cc people. She can peel and initiate just by slamming people. She basically gained some reliable crowd control and her Q, which tends to be her one point wonder, became more usable. More crowd control is always welcome along with good damage.

Her W also became a lot more usable. Her new W makes her next attack deal bonus magic damage to her main target and others near it. After that she starts twirling it around and it functions as her old ability. However the damage was simply upped all around including the scaling it has from ability power and her health. It lasts less too though. Her old ability used to do crap by itself unless the targets were frosted. If her targets were frosted her W would deal tons of damage otherwise it wouldn't. Now they buffed it up so that it doesn't gain any bonus damage with frost but it's already powerful by itself. This means Sejuani doesn't have to rely on having the perfect situation to have good damage.

Her E was buffed in the strength of the slow in the early levels and nerfed in the duration of the slow in the early levels. It still only functions against frosted targets. However her E also obtained a version of her old passive as a passive of its own. Now any of her abilities or basic attacks will apply frost. This just makes it much easier for her to have frost on targets. Basically anything she does with her kit will apply it and make E usable.

Her ultimate wasn't changed very much in how it functions. It now freezes all targets for the same amount of time regardless of who was the one hit by the ability. They did lower the duration of it in the first ranks to make it fair but it's much stronger late game. It also slows if it whiffs.

Overall her changes greatly increased her functionality and will make her a lot less situational of a use. She still doesn't have as much survivability as she should and has bad early clears but at least her team fighting has become less reliant on things going perfect. I don't have much opinion on her though. I really want to test her out in more games. I do think she'll need her passive buffed up with more armor though earlier though before her jungling becomes safer. At the very least her pre-game builds have gained more flexibility as she no longer needs to invest into cooldown reduction in order to amplify her jungle strength. She can take standard tank runes now thanks to her cooldowns and abilities being fixed up with proper numbers.

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Comments

  • #34 tachikoman

    What do you think of Trundle's Ulti not castable on no champion?

    http://www.reignofgaming.net/news/23809-unofficial-pbe-patch-notes-for-4-4-2013

    And they change it to 4 second apparently.

    Last edited by tachikoman: 4/7/2013 3:33:37 AM
  • #31 EYEtriforc3

    I realy hope any of these two will be good, beable to compete with jarvan and co cause im so bored with the jungle game atm, Jarv Xin Nasus Vi and Hec is just way to good compared to all the others, but they are freaking boring to play.

  • #28 Gameguy301
    could use a bit of editing. saying that they removed the ability for Q to apply frost, and then two paragraphs down saying that frost applies from everything which of course includes Q is a bit confusing.

    between udyr, sejuani, and trundle i can only hope atleast one of them gets to hang with the big boys, i hope its sejuani or udyr, i have experience with them. never been a trundle fan, but my gripe has always been sluggish play destroying animations which from the sounds of things was the biggest tweak.
    Last edited by Gameguy301: 4/6/2013 10:37:03 PM
  • #25 Selutu

    I have to agree that the Trundle changes were very good.  However in Sejuani's case, I actually prefer her old skill-set more (par the ultimate change). Despite the 10% slow being minimal, it was actually better for her to use in early ganks than slow reduction and extra armor. The duration of perma-frost didn't help that either... Also her W change means that her first clear would still be slow despite everything since she would have little to no bonus health for it to scale on anyways.

  • #22 registermyaccount

    I think the BIGGEST problem with Sejauni in the past, other than her early clear, was the fact that she had no continuous damage. Yes, Permafrost was really good cc- but she ults, charges in, applying her passive to like 2-3 people, then permafrosts. Then she's done for the fight. Her Northern Winds were really really bad in terms of damage, and was only good if you Frosted somebody. Now here's the problem: you only have 1 way to AoE frost their team, which was you Charge, on a retardedly long cooldown. And after her first round of abilities, she can pretty much only permafrost 1 person at a time from then on: she's not an adc, she's not gonna be autoattacking every single enemy, so in the end you'll probably only get a couple of AAs off on 1 guy with your awful attack speed and animation. So to sum up, unlike most tanks who offer tons of aoe/continuous cc and constant damage (Think Amumu, Nautilus, Maokai), old Sejuani only offered aoe cc in the first 3 seconds of a teamfight, then she does nothing, no aoe dps, no more aoe cc.

    The changes really solved it imo, making her incredibly strong. The biggest two weaknesses to old Sej was what I mentioned above, and early clear. Riot somewhat solved the early clear, but that'll remain her weakness, after all, no champ can be perfect. In solving this late game issue though, she now becomes a source of continuous damage, continuous cc through her abilities granting slow, and constant aoe cc through her abilities applying frost, then permafrost. I think that these changes will just let her build full tank, sit in the middle of the enemy team, slow everybody she touches while doing constant damage, in addition to her great initiation power. If she's AP, building a Rylai's will make her like a slightly stronger version of Amumu. This single change might even bring traditional tanks (Malphite, Nautilus, etc, not bruiser mid, bruiser top, and bruiser support) back to the meta again once people realize how strong she is.

  • #19 jhawkjayhawk

    i used cdr 10% cdr masteries and 5% in blues i dont no if thats a good thing but it is hard to gank after clearing with sej and it feels like ur better off rushing 6 and basing(this is probably cuz of the runes i use seeing as her lvl one abilites have massive cd even with 35% cuz of blue) but if u get spirit stone she farms pretty well mid and late game 

  • #17 StonewallRoG

    I edited somethings to make my points come across better.

  • #14 Basinator

    @Stonewall: Might be just me, but I find it a bit hard to follow when you are just saying "E", "W" and "ultimate". Couldnt you include a short desc to each skill?

  • #21 PartyMagier

    if you play the character, that means the change will be interesting to you, you will know the skills by heart

    otherwise there is a patchpreview for you good sir!

  • #48 Basinator

    Yeah, because I play all 105+ champs all the time.

    And just cause of patch preview I will be able to memorize all positions (on keyboard) of all skills of all champs.

  • #12 Arcane_Azmadi

    You definitely understate the significance of the Sejuani changes. One of the real problems with old Sej is that she wanted to max all 3 of her abilities first (but obviously couldn't). Well not REALLY her Q because that thing sucked, but putting ranks in it at least reduced that RETARDED cooldown. If you didn't max her W first, she jungled like shit and did no damage in fights. If you didn't max her E first her ganks sucked because a 30% slow was weaksauce. Now she can leave E as a 1-point wonder for a 50% slow (even with the reduced duration) and max W first. Also, having a knockup added to her Q is MASSIVE. One of her biggest failings before was that she had NO hard CC or interrupts other than her ult. Now she can actually interrupt channelled abilities. Also, the cooldown has been SLASHED, which is fantastic, because it was just embarrasingly long before.

    You also neglected to mention one small nerf they made to her ult- if you whiff it and it doesn't actually hit anyone, the explosion only slows all nearby enemies rather than stunning them. I think that's a worthwhile trade considering a hit now AoE stuns them all for longer.

  • #13 StonewallRoG

    I am not understating the significance of her changes...

  • #16 snysly

    rammus has a similar problem with his e and w when it comes to jungling.  Personally i think that it opens up different play styles and forces the person to choose to farm or gank, rather than be amazing at all things.
    .

     

  • #23 Dessagius

    Quote from Arcane_Azmadi »

    Also, having a knockup added to her Q is MASSIVE. One of her biggest failings before was that she had NO hard CC or interrupts other than her ult. Now she can actually interrupt channelled abilities.

    Her Q always had a mini knockup attached to it. They just decided to mention it now just to make her look better.

  • #24 Arcane_Azmadi

    It didn't. Really, it didn't. It bumped minions aside, but when a ton of rampaging pork with a flail-swinging warrior-woman on top of it impacted on an enemy champion, they just stopped dead. Oh and applied Frost.

    Trust me, Qing into an ulting Miss Fortune to absolutely NO effect was one of the most irritating problems I had with Sejuani.

     

  • #26 natemiddleman2

    I know right. As a Sej main, this was one of the most inconsistent things in the game. It knocked back minions and monsters at the end of the charge but ... not champions. And the cooldown was ridiculous. As the one "low" cd spell that applied frost, it had a ridiculous cd.

  • #37 Wiltsee

    Q: "her q...sucked...retarded cooldown....knockup added to her q is massive."

    Stonewall: "interesting...welcome change...now has a lower cooldown...% health damage and knocks enemies up...this is a big change."

    W: "if you didn't max w first she jungled like shit and did no damage."

    Stonewall: "Her W also became a lot more usable."

    E: "30% slow was weaksauce"

    Stonewall: "Her E was buffed in the strength of the slow."

    R: "You neglected to mention nerf...if you whiff...explosion only slows"

    Stonewall: "It also slows if it whiffs."

    you literally said the same things he did. i dunno what else you wanted him to say. maybe if he said weaksauce?

  • #10 Dunal
    +25 Armor and +25% slow resistance is a solid passive. She also gained 180 health at level 18.

    In general, I think you overstate Sejuani's "squishiness" way way too much. Her base stats are solid and even more so with these changes. Compared to say, Amumu -- she's perfectly fine. It's just that Amumu had more disruption and consistancy. Which is now gone (her weakness, that is).

    In any case I'm not sure how anyone could even look at the Sejuani changes and not feel that they are quite literally overkill in some cases. Her Q went from an average gapcloser to one of the best in the game. E is now a one-point wonder and W got buffed for jungling considering it's now an AA refresh. Ult got straight buffed too at max rank (still 2 seconds -- now applies that to everyone). To top it all off -- her Frost debuff now can't be removed by CC removal or tenacity.

    She'll be a top ban.
    Last edited by Dunal: 4/6/2013 6:01:40 PM
  • #11 vitocapo2

    Quote from Dunal »

    +25 Armor and +25% slow resistance is a solid passive. She also gained 180 health at level 18.

    In general, I think you overstate Sejuani's "squishiness" way way too much. Her base stats are solid and even more so with these changes. Compared to say, Amumu -- she's perfectly fine. It's just that Amumu had more disruption and consistancy. Which is now gone (her weakness, that is).

    In any case I'm not sure how anyone could even look at the Sejuani changes and not feel that they are quite literally overkill in some cases. Her Q went from an average gapcloser to one of the best in the game. E is now a one-point wonder and W got buffed for jungling considering it's now an AA refresh. Ult got straight buffed too at max rank (still 2 seconds -- now applies that to everyone). To top it all off -- her Frost debuff now can't be removed by CC removal or tenacity.

    She'll be a top ban.

    exactly this. She will be nerfed for sure. She deals a lot of damage and is so so tanky. But the most Overpowered thing is her ultimate. Stonewall says her ultimate wasn't changed that much... but 2 seconds to everyone, larger splash radius, faster projectile travel and a slow splash if it doesn't hit anyone is a huge change. In my opinion is currently the best spell in the game and a gamechanging tool that can make a far behind loosing team get ahead.

  • #15 Dunal
    Thing is, innate tankiness doesn't mean jack when a champion can build full tank items and --

    A) Deal a high amount of damage.
    B) Offer tons of utility.

    Sejuani's early game still won't be -amazing-, but her mid/late game will be nuts. And if she falls behind she won't care as much anymore. Her Q damage scales with the enemy and her ult is actually better. Eh.

    Falling behind? Max Q first and be a disruption bot who shreds health. Ahead? Max W and faceroll like she could before -- she could always snowball well. E now being a one-point-wonder is massive, as you can now rank Q early and have more mobility and disruption... and even damage now.

    Also, with W being an AA resetter and having a lower cooldown -- Iceborn Gauntlet is going to be massive on her. Which gives her mana sustain, CDR and durability too.
    Last edited by Dunal: 4/6/2013 6:29:51 PM
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