Want to hear a good joke? Jungle diversity!
This article comes in after Riot decided to make changing between smites cost you gold. Now I totally understand and actually agree that it is stupid that you could have done that in the first place. It completely negated the idea of decision making and risk reward that Riot wanted to promote with these machete upgrades. If you purchased Ranger's Trailblazer you should have better clearing but worse ganks than if you had purchased Skirmisher's Saber or Stalker's Blade. However, even though I agree with the change, I do believe it is beyond stupid and unfair to push it out.
This change was made to "nerf" the ability for junglers to sustain their early clears with Ranger's Trailblazer and then switch to the strongest smite for the rest of the game. It was made to nerf the strongest of junglers currently dominating the meta. The thing is that this barely affects them, if at all. Those junglers could clear without much issue if they take Stalker's Blade first or didn't even need Stalker's Blade for their ganks to be effective in the first place. The change hurts weaker junglers and off-meta junglers much more especially because Riot had made some really negative changes the month before.
As I said, I agree that you should not be able to swap between smites at will but it was currently necessary for a lot of champions. The weaker junglers who get destroyed by the jungle currently rely heavily on Ranger's Trailblazer to sustain themselves through it. They often do not want the item but are forced to take it because they'd get hindered heavily otherwise. Weak junglers would purchase Ranger's Trailblazer, clear once or twice with it and then exchange it for the actual item they wanted.
It is sad because this could have also been avoided if Riot had not nerfed the three camp clear plus fountain pathing some junglers were taking. Weaker junglers could clear three camps, go home and buy the machete upgrade plus two potions and then sustain themselves perfectly for the next vital clears. After those next clears most junglers would have no problem at all. The weak junglers would actually have a choice between which smite they wanted thanks to those two potions but Riot decided to increase the cost of the upgrade and thus nerf their ability to do this sort of path. They did it because the potential for a jungler to snowball early which, again, I feel is stupid. They made a change to prevent something that may or may not happen in a game but a change that would most surely nerf some champions immensely.
Since the beginning of Season 5, the number of junglers that could be played effectively has been dwindling. Some nerfs were justified such as the Devourer nerf while others, like the machete upgrade gold increase, were uncalled for. Also, while some can argue that every season also had a sort of handful of champions that were competitive while the rest were largely ignored, it could be said that the difference in power between the junglers in previous seasons was not as disturbing as it is now.
Understandably, it is very hard to fix this problem because any buffs you make to the jungle run the risk of just making the top tier junglers even more powerful. One clever player had the idea of giving the jungle items scaling that is not attractive to bruisers. It was suggested that machete gain health and/or AP scaling that would increase the power of its sustain and damage. Bruisers tend to rune for attack damage so they would not be able to utilize these bonuses unless they runed for health but that would just be stupid and redundant. While it may force tank junglers to rune for health instead of something like penetration or attack speed, it would make up for that loss by boosting their clearing speed and health. The same would go for AP champions but they usually equip themselves with AP runes anyways.
Anyhow, as already stated, Riot's latest change is baffling. I can understand that they are planning on rolling out some tank changes soon but, until then, weaker junglers just got mega shafted. I cannot lie, jungling feels very unfulfilling right now and not very fun. I hope Riot comes up with a fix soon enough.
I don't really have a problem with 'new jungle,' though I don't jungle too often, so I guess my opinion doesn't carry much weight. :) As long as the jungler ganks bot lane once in a while, I'm good.
I hope people know that the jungle has never had "Variety"
i wonder what is the problem with new jungle,people is like "the fucking worst,i gonna avoid jungle this season" but past seasons were about lee sin /elise wich is like the same more or less in the worst case. diversity is still higher than before.
Elise and Lee Sin were only dominant at the beginning of the season. We had many changes with Spirit Stone, Quill Coat or Feral Flare. The viability of jungle champions in SoloQ was really high, because the gold and experience income was okay and the sustain was good.
It's impossible to make something like Karthus jungle happen this season, because he can't even handle the jungle. Even Evelynn, a champion that can only be picked as a jungler, gets butthurt in the new jungle. There are only a few junglers left, that scale well with current item and smite options, can handle the jungle properly and are still impactful with less experience and gold income.
But we got Fizz and Nidalee as viable junglers at the moment. Two champions that should never be able to do that, especially Fizz. Nidalee is plain stupid, if she gets a lead at the moment, she oneshot every squishy with plain stupid range and mobility.
I think we arrived at a stage where neither item or smite changes can address the superiority of jungle bruisers because they will just adapt and and still be unbalanced.
Riot needs to either nerf all jungle bruisers (low chance of that happening because people like their OP shit) or buff all tank junglers (very low chance of that happening because too much work).
Or go back to spirit stone (will never happen because Riot cant be honest that they fucked up)
Or they really need to jump the gun and make strong items that AD jungler cant benefit off or even buy. I cant see why that is such a big thing as its already there with Hydra and Ruaan.
As always it doesn't seem like Riot knows what the fuck to do with the jungle. They are literally at the end of their rope idea wise and are tieing it around the neck of every jungler.
It's not "brusiers" it's "Initiation&Escape"
For example, Udyr and Xin Zhao are not good picks. Udyr can't enter a fight while Xin Zhao can't escape a fight. Ergo, they're bad picks right now DESPITE being strong bruisers in their own right.
Ihope for some changes to bring back the ap-tank/bruiser junglers, they have no real sustain in jungle, ghoststoneeffect on the tank and ap jungleitem would be nice.
Ap-junglers would bring back some ad mid and toplane champs into the meta.
I don't understand how people think there aren't lots of viable junglers lol
You don't understand jungling
it seems you dont also, people tends to think lcs picks are just "coz they re overall stronger" when they re just about pick up 1 frag,then rotate for objectives as a team and endless cicles of pressure.
that happens only in lcs thats like 0,000000000000000000000000000001 of the games in LoL(totally random number ofc )
meta junglers are not stronger outside of those games,in the world where we live,if people spam the meta junglers is BECAUSE they dont undestand jungling.
Viable and competitively viable are not the same thing.
Sejuani is an excellent solo queue hero, but she won't do you any favors in professional games where her weaker safety and speed in clears and weaker early ganks are so exploitable.
Diamond made it work couple of times.
I am about to quit jungling this season. It's really onesided and i don't dare not to pick a top tier jungler anymore, because there's literally nothing you can do, when you clear your bottom side of the jungle, port back and when you get top side, your buff is stolen and this Lee Sin is still waiting in the brush with full health.
I like to play aggressive junglers, but if Riot decides to further nerf current strong junglers instead of making the other junglers viable, there's no reason anymore to pick jungler in SoloQ. The new supports have more influence (yeah, Bard...) than most current non-meta junglers.
There's an important thing that a lot of people are forgetting however.
People call Chilling Smite 'The Strongest' because it helps with ganks; yet they are forgetting one critical thing:
The junglers who need Trailblazer have a lot more C.C generally than the junglers who need Chilling Smite. Jarvan can clear fine because he builds loads of AD; yes; but compare the strength of his ganks to a Maokai or a Nautilus and there isn't even much of a comparison.Jarvan's ganks fall apart at the sightest notion of mobility, especially if one dodges the flag; but Chilling Smite allows him to catch up after someone dashes out of his EQ or his R. Maokai doesn't need this.
Lee Sin has no hard C.C at all until Lv 6. Nidalee has no C.C full stop. Shaco's only reliable c.c is a slow. This is why these champions take chilling smite; and why; because these champions dominate the jungle atm; people equate chilling smite to being the strongest smite. [When the problem is actually clear ability].
Not to say that there are not champions screwed by this. Hecarim comes to mind; especially since an MS steal from Chilling effectively acts as an AD steroid for him; and he has little C.C outside of his ultimate. But saying that champions such as Maokai; Sejuani and Nautilus need Chilling Smite is just wrong. They don't need it.
The biggest issue with the jungle right now is that AD junglers can clear thanks to Warrior [And AP thanks to Magus. And even Devourer helps autoattackers]; while Juggernaught does nothing to help tanks clear [Unless they are named Sejuani]. Juggernaught needs to have something which helps tank junglers clear. Be it the return of a Quill-Coat style effect; or some form of HP scaleing on autoattacks ON MONSTERS ONLY.
That's what I thought. Any jungle champ I'd buy trailblazer on already has some sort of move-speed enhancement or at least one form of CC. And it's not like it is totally gone, you have to just be a bit closer. At max range, it was hard to catch up to enemies you hit with it, anyway.
Problem is - meta junglers don't need trailblazer cause they clear fast and don't lose too much hp (reksai, j4, lee, vi), so they take chilling smite to make their already pretty strong ganks every stronger. Tanks need trailblazer to clear, as they get their asses kicked by camps and usually lack sustain. Its not like any tank couldn't make his ganking better with a chilling smite. Slower enemies - easier to land a skillshot or catch up to running target. I bet if tanks had no problems clearing the jungle they'd use chilling smite all the time. I think rito will have to do something with jungle tanks in next couple of patches, all you see is 4-5 champs jungling everywhere, half of the bans are usually jungle bans. It was fine before the upgrade cost increased, they could've just reduced the range on smite and let people make their choices with upgrades. I don't really understand why they did that to be honest.
Item changes are probably the best fix. The AP/Health scaling on machete would be a great start, that would solely effect clearing without too much spill over effects on the rest of the game other than promoting diversity
well... i am not happy about warrior path of machette either... they nerf it bcs vi, j4 and lee abuse it... so now we cant have any other AD jungler, bcs these 3 are bullshit?
riot live balance team was always retarded... even when people ask, if he is full of retarded bronzies, best argument GC ever used was, that in S2 (!) two of the members were challenger... what this mean? that 3 years ago 2 people could play this game, and there is no achievement ever since...
so yeah this is how it looks, when u leave ignorant assholes that have no idea about a game in charge of changes...
Riot was trying to make people have to choose between ganking and farming, instead of everyone being able to clear the jungle effectively and still have a major impact on lanes by ganking them. The problem is that they overshot, and most junglers have either no effect on the early game (farming) or a highly risky, snowbally impact (ganking). Either way its not satisfying and games feel out of your control.
Meanwhile the top junglers can still do both. They still feel satisfying and impactful and skill-based, playing almost like a normal jungler in S4. If I play Vi, clearing the jungle is no problem and I can still attempt ganks. I'm never stuck in the hopeless situation of being too low level to gank. They play like junglers should play - if Riot simply nerfs them, jungle as a whole is going to be almost pointless. Just choose between a 4th stream of subpar EXP or an extra roaming support.
I don't know why people aren't just demanding a return to the S2 jungle with Oracles remove and Gromp added.
S2 have very little diversity when it came to jungle strategy because Oracles was the strongest item in the game for junglers, by far, and it provided no combat stats. Plus you could buy infintite wards, making junglers even poorer. That was the main S2 complaint. But you could execute that strategy with 10, 15, 20 junglers at the Pro Level, and many more at lower levels of play.
The other main jungle complaint was mid taking wraiths (still do) and it resulted in the introduction of jungle items which have been a balance nightmare since their introduction in S3. Better fix: put in some new jungle camps like Gromp and another on Red Side (plus the meta has made mid more dangerous so its harder to do wraiths anyways with wild Ahris and Zeds around).