Talk Dirty to Me: Figuring out Where the Line is for Trash Talking

League of Legends continues to grow and develop into a juggernaut of a video game, and a big part of that growth is due to e-Sports. With that growth however, comes more attention. Certain things won't fly anymore and Riot made that extremely clear when they announced IWillDominate's accounts were permanently banned and that he was suspended from competitive LoL for 1 year. Doublelift recently caught flak from the community for derogatory comments he made about Fnatic's AD Carry Rekkles during an interview at IPL 5.

Doublelift has been known to playfully trash talk his peers on a number of occasions, but the community pitchforked around him thinking he was serious this time. Trash talk isn't always a bad thing, in fact the hype and rivalries it creates are the types of things that make games more interesting across any sport. Let's face it, games between teams that flat don't like each other (or at least act like it) are more fun to watch because there seems to be more at stake. It's true in any sport from Football to Basketball, to yes even League of Legends. Let's take a look at just where the line is.

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Dominate left Riot with no choice, and he was clearly over the line

First off, Riot had every right to suspend Dominate because he was a representative of their company and they are trying to project a certain image. His trash talking was happening in game and was offensive enough to land him in the Tribunal 9 times. In the NBA, during games if a player crosses the line with his trash talking, he will be given a technical foul which eventually results in suspension. The same thing happened here, and more so the use of racial, homophobic, and other slurs result in immediate fines in other sports. There's no place for that kind of talk anywhere and no one should be exposed to that kind of harassment.

Dominate was warned, and not only did not heed the warnings, he got worse and so they punished him harshly to dissuade anyone else to take the same kind of line. His 1 year suspension from competitive LoL was extremely severe, and likely ends his competitive gaming career, but he shouldn't have let himself be the example to the rest of the community that no one is immune from punishment. For the record, I believe that his penalties were too harsh, but I understand why Riot did what they did. The community has to know that no one is above the law, even the competitive players we so often put up on a pedestal.

People will argue the old Jack Sparrow argument of sticks and stones love, and that people shouldn't care what someone anonymously says over the internet to them. To a degree that is true, but it doesn't give anyone carte blanche to say whatever they want to them. They could have simply ignored him sure, but he would have already committed the offenses and his team would also be unable to communicate with him for the rest of the game. We are all guilty of raging and trash talk at some point or another I'm sure, but if it becomes a pattern of behavior and you become toxic to the community at large you should be punished. Make no mistake, Riot has every right to suspend players who abuse the in game chat with racial, homophobic, or whatever other crazy curse-filled insults normally reserved for only Xbox live.

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So what's "good" trash talk?

Trash talking your teammates will never do you any good and should always be avoided at all costs, but your opponents should be fair game. Trash talk and mind games can be a powerful motivator and can get into someone's head very easily. In Sun Tzu's The Art of War one of his famous lines in describing how to defeat opponents is, "If your opponent is of choleric temper, seek to irritate him." In my opinion, as long as you don't curse or use slurs, calling someone bad is fair game. If you are a tank, or someone who isn't worth anything it can be extremely advantageous to get someone to attack you and not your Kog'Maw for example.

Looking at trash talk as it pertains to e-Sports is another story. Everyone in the community doesn't have to be best friends, and people don't always have to do or say the PR friendly thing. When Doublelift comes out and playfully jabs at his opponents or calls someone bad or not as good as him, it isn't hurting anyone and it's outside the game. He has to live with consequences if he doesn't live up to the talk and catch the heat from the community, but it's refreshing to not always hear the same answers. Some people like stirring the pot and it shouldn't be discouraged because it makes for more exciting games.

Again, this doesn't mean everyone should come out and start pounding their chests and saying they are going to dumpster on everyone else because they are trash. It means that when players are asked what they think of their opponents, they don't always to have to say, "he's a great player and I have a lot of respect for him."Players have personalities outside of the game and should try to stay true to those. If they don't, we will end up in a world where every interview is the same and we are essentially watching faceless drones play and talk about the games. It's fun to hear what people really think from time to time and it's not something we should outlaw.

Calling someone bad, or saying they have poor decision making, or whatever isn't NEARLY the same thing as saying something terrible someone's mother or calling them something racist. If a player is excessively and continuously making terrible comments to others that needs to be looked at, but the community has seemingly developed some very thin-skin and is reporting for the most minor of offenses lately. Does it really hurt you that much if someone says you are bad, or you can't hit skill shots during a game?

There is little doubt the community has a lot of growth to do to be a more enjoyable place for everyone to play. We need to eliminate the Xbox live stuff, and just make more fun playful banter if we want. If someone is playing Sona tell them they are so bad they couldn't even write songs for Nickelback. If someone is playing Jarvan, Darius, or Yi and can't manage to get any kills, tell them they have less dunks than the WNBA.

But in all seriousness, the game needs to cut down on the trash talking, but it does have its place just like it does in any other sport or competition across the globe. It shouldn't be something that is necessarily applauded or something everyone should do particularly towards their own team, but it's not the end of the world and can be plenty useful in the right hands. What do you think RoG'ers? Where is the line when it comes to trash talk and does it have a place in League of Legends competitively and in solo queue?


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Comments

  • #92 Cerbereth

    Riot for some reason refuses to clarify what the line is on trash talking. This leads to confusion to the point that the majority of the tribunal forums feels that "gg noobs" is an auto punish, while others are pardoning horrible trolls on the grounds that the person had a good score.

    Why won't Riot define the line?

  • #93 MerryLane

    The line is :

    "If you are trashtalking whatever the line is, you'll get a certain amount of reports, and then we'll decide to choose a random percentage of people that will be banned amongst those that have the most reports".

  • #94 GentlemanGustaf

    People who are looking for defined lines are typically doing so so they can find loopholes and ways to cross the line while still avoiding looking like they're crossing the line. They're not trying to establish a bunch of rules that people have to follow, they're trying to create a good community.

  • #95 Cerbereth

    That's like saying we shouldn't have laws, because someone will just find a loophole anway. Don't you think our lawmakers are trying to create a good community? Good communities need laws and rules not a anarchic gray area.

  • #99 GentlemanGustaf

    I'm not saying that hard lines aren't good, but in some circumstances, hard lines aren't actually available. Context is everything, and people should be able to tell the difference between being a dick and joking around. It's pretty simple.

  • #100 sgtcolon

    Quote from GentlemanGustaf »

    I'm not saying that hard lines aren't good, but in some circumstances, hard lines aren't actually available. Context is everything, and people should be able to tell the difference between being a dick and joking around. It's pretty simple.


    This is so true. 90% of people should easily be able to work out what is right and what is wrong. Anything you are not sure about, just assume it is wrong to be on the safe side. Simple. Playing LoL shouldn't feel like you are constantly dealing with people with ASPD or borderline sociopaths. That is what Riot are trying to improve.

  • #101 bagmangood
    They're trying to have the community as a whole define the lines as to what is acceptable and what is not.
    If you have a problem with tribunal rulings, then vote in them frequently, and get like-minded players to do the same.
  • #102 Cerbereth

    I can kind of see that, and I think people should have freedom to report what they want, but when it comes to judging player conduct the line is anything but simple. The heated arguments on the tribunal forum are proof of that.

     

  • #103 Aquamadur

    I just love what merrylane said. I mean its not that random people can only punish you. They dont have any power to bann someone. They bann-power lies at some randon riot worker. And to be clear, our lawmaker gave us hundred of grey area laws. Not everything is clear defined.

  • #105 MerryLane

    Quote from GentlemanGustaf »

    http://na.leagueoflegends.com/articles/The_Summoners_Code


    Since I received a ban for negative attitude and no judgment from the tribunal going with it, I think there is no real line that can be found in the summoners code.

    You could say to your ap carry "omg dude, you should rush athene then rabadon then voidstaff, instead of going for catalyst then archangel then lichbane, it does 0 dmg", and get reported by the mid and his duoq jungler for "negative attitude" because you "ruined his desilusion".

    Same about loads of things that happen in the tribunal. When you are reported, that's often because you were in a loosing team, so everyone was probably feeding at this time.
    When you see a guy that "in reality tryharded untill the end" but ends up with a poor 2/10, you NEVER have a positive vision of his actions throughout the game simply by seeing his stats.
    The average "judge" that sees three games in a row with 2/10ish results often selects guilty.

    Same about so much things. In every ranked game I do, I can't stop telling my mates to keep their mouth, to stop trashtalking, that we will win because better lategame, that we ...
    Long story short, that the game isn't over and that we d better cheer ourselves up and try carrying them.
    Don't you think I'm EVEN MORE reported than if I just ignored them instead of saving the situation?

    I'm pretty sure the only solution to this masquarade, is to delete totally this tribunal. It's only making true lol players more punished than the average troll.
    Riot should instead give a little percentage of players an "admin right", and these players should really get "involved into their job". This "right" wouldn't be seeable in anytime by the players.
    When they meet a team where some start raging, they would immediately ask them politely to shut it up or talk constructively. They would just be normal players, but that would try at any time, to carry their team and improve the communication.
    And when they meet some really hard troll, they would just "report it" to the system, that would make sure this troll gets another admin in his team for the next few games.
    After a few reports, this player would get a little punishment, such as 1H ban, and some sort of letter that would explain him how his behaviour was wrong, and that he will be watched the next games.

    On the contrary, some admins could give some credits to good players that might in the end lead them in an admin promotion.
    Ofc, admins could still be punished if they forget their role, by other admins.

    Something like that would make 100x more sense than this tribunal joke, because only players that are in your team and that try and be "positive" can judge if a player goes too far or is only a bit tensed and can't stop expressing himself when a conflict is already burning the team.

    Last edited by MerryLane 12/10/2012 8:14:11 AM
  • #106 GentlemanGustaf

    How about just saying “have you tried X instead of Y?” or “X is better than Y, you get more damage”. The way you’re phrasing it is what makes your attitude seem negative. Where do you get your data on average judges? I read every case, and unless the report says ‘intentional feeding’, I don’t even look at the score. And I’ve seen scores of 0-55-1, so if somebody’s 2-10, I’m not going to report them for intentional feeding unless there’s some in-chat reason to believe that. There are no good rewards for doing tribunal, so I doubt anybody’s there for any reason but an interest in serving the community.

    I can’t imagine you’re getting reported for saying “hey guys, we can win this, just stop yelling at each other and go for X objective”. On the other hand, if you’re saying “STFU dumbasses you’re acting like idiots and we can win this game if we just fucking group”, and then die because somebody’s not there, and say “Yi, youre an idiot, we need you to fucking group”, well, then you might. But I’d be pretty surprised if anybody would vote guilty for the former.

    So you’re afraid of being judged by the community at large, but not a few players? The system you’re describing is the current system, except everybody is an admin, and the worse people are at being admins (the more their reports are inaccurate), the less their voice is worse.

    Conflict ‘already burning the team’ isn’t a license for further dickery.

  • #90 exacerberus

    If someone is playing Sona tell them they are so bad they couldn't even write songs for Nickelback.

    How can this be less insulting than implying my mother may enjoy sex with non-consenting animals!?? I mean, I couldn't care less about how an idiot may call me, my family or whatever, people should just stop being over-sensitive emos and grow some ballz, or thicker skin or whatever you want to call that, but come on!: bringing Nickelback into the equation is under any aspect crossing that lane.

  • #91 bagmangood

    Yes
    Last edited by bagmangood 12/7/2012 11:06:21 PM
  • #82 BuddyBoombox

    Is talking yourself up considered trash talking?  I occasional will taunt the enemy team if I'm playing a tank or support, saying things like "Taric OP" or "Mundo goes where he pleases!" after they miss a kill on me.  I rarely insult the enemy team, but sometimes a tiny taunt can make the entire enemy team come after you, to their own loss.  Anyone else have a similar experience?  I've never seen the tribunal for banter like that, but I have no idea if anyone is reporting me.

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