Rammus Support - Sleeper OP

  • #1

    I've been playing a lot of Rammus lately, but not in the jungle where, frankly, he just gets to beat up. I've been running his as a support and finding great success with this. I play support primarily and I'm all about looking for ways to make different champions more viable in a support role. Rammus however needs no thought. He's just a boss in the bottom lane.

    Currently I've been testing out AD carries with him and Miss Fortune fits with him very well. Let's break down his abilities.

    Passive: Gives bonus AD based on a percentage of his armor. While not being super effective because he is no auto attacker, the passive is still beneficial because armor is most likely what you will build first in the lane based on the fact that, in most cases, you will face another AD/Support combo.

    Q: An awesome MS/knockup/slow that's great for initiating, chasing, or fleeing if need be.

    W: An amazing shield that also damages attackers. Seriously the shield lasts for as long as Leona's WHEN she hits something after the initial 3 seconds and at max level it has a +50 armor/mr advantage on leonas shield.

    E: The best thing about him. A 3 second taunt is just perfect for getting your ADC fed in lane. Taunt the carry, W, then chill while your ADC just annihilates them.

    R: Perfect for pushing down structures and quite a high amount of damage in a decent AoE.

    Seriously Rammus kit is just superb. I know a lot of people QQ because his nerfs all but ejected him from the jungle which players tend to think is his only viable role, but we have had major success against all lane match ups so far. The only real counter I could see to this lane would be a Lulu or possibly a support Lux or Morgana even. He takes dumps on Blitzcrank as long as you play correctly and Rammus is just super strong in a support role. Not to mention once you win lane his roaming is just bar none one of the best in the game.

    So, what are everyone's thoughts?

  • #2

    No sustain and no poke. Maxing taunt means no dmg and that you can more or less be ignored (also clense). Also very weak early game (till you get all the skills and lvl up that taunt). Also you need to get very close in (making you very easy to gank).

    So counters would be lanes that can kill early, that can outpoke him, or that can outsutain him. That means almost every currently popular support. Seriously i take taric and you can't get anywhere near my carry (you ball i just run into you) you taunt me i can tank it and then just heal while you can't.

  • #3

    Rammus dies to EVERYONE before he hits level 3.  That's why he's a bad bot lane support. Everyone and their mother can just kill him before he even has a chance to gain levels.

    He can work with something like AD Sona, but that's more a statement as to how strong Sona's laning phase is.

    Last edited by A2ZOMG: 11/23/2012 1:19:28 PM
  • #4

    I've been playing Rammus for over 2 years now.  Out of all of the tanks he has one of the lowest base HPs.  Yes he has a great armor buff but it only lasts awhile then its back on a long CD.  He definitely can't solo lane unless your just dealing with low level accounts where you can tower taunt them to death.  I can see him possibly working as a support as a pure tank if the circumstances were just right.  To make him work you would have to be able to sit back and play very defensively until hes able to get 2 points in W and at least 1 in E and Q.  I just don't see that being that optimal.

    I still think it would work better to have him jungle or maybe even pair him with a counter-jungler or roamer for 3 solo lanes.  He would mainly work on farming until level 4 while the counter-jungler or roamer ganks then they both can start ganking all the lanes.

    @Anazagar:  So I'm powerballing towards your carry and your fix is to just stand in the way?  The best Rammus players have mastered the powerball + flash initiation.  I'll just flash right over you and still be able to get my taunt off unless you can time your stun just right.

  • #5

    These responses are exactly what I keep hearing but I don't see these problems in game. You might say you can go Taric and completely shut me out, but that just isn't always the case. If I manage to force your stun on a 14 second cooldown at level 1, since players only level it at level 1 and then never again until they have to, I can just wait out the small 1.5 second duration and then pull my tricks right after and you cannot stop me. When it comes to him dying before level 3 to everyone, I again do not have this problem. I take w at level 1, e at level 2, and q at level 3. I start tanky with the right runes and masteries, and I get my taunt early enough to counter dives. When it comes to being easy to gank, you assume that I'm just going to blindly initiate when I have no awareness of the enemy jungler/mid. I'm a smarter support player than that though (most of the time). Again, I did not say Rammus could take on everyone, I did however say he is very strong if you play him correctly. Am I saying I will beat you every time? Gosh no. Am I saying it's not going to be anywhere as easy as you think? Oh yes.

  • #6

    Quote from ViperiousTAW »

    I've been playing Rammus for over 2 years now.  Out of all of the tanks he has one of the lowest base HPs.  Yes he has a great armor buff but it only lasts awhile then its back on a long CD.  He definitely can't solo lane unless your just dealing with low level accounts where you can tower taunt them to death.  I can see him possibly working as a support as a pure tank if the circumstances were just right.  To make him work you would have to be able to sit back and play very defensively until hes able to get 2 points in W and at least 1 in E and Q.  I just don't see that being that optimal.

    I still think it would work better to have him jungle or maybe even pair him with a counter-jungler or roamer for 3 solo lanes.  He would mainly work on farming until level 4 while the counter-jungler or roamer ganks then they both can start ganking all the lanes.

    @Anazagar:  So I'm powerballing towards your carry and your fix is to just stand in the way?  The best Rammus players have mastered the powerball + flash initiation.  I'll just flash right over you and still be able to get my taunt off unless you can time your stun just right.


    This. I agree his w has a long cooldown and having to wait until level 3 or 4 might not be optimal but there are several champs who need to wait nearly as long just so they can perform the same. Leona is a great example. I love her. She is amazing, but to properly initiate without the fear of death she needs to wait until at least 3 or she risks to much.

  • #7

    @xcalibro:  Isn't that why she pairs up with characters like Corki or Caitlyn that tend to sit back more?

    Yes Corki can kill early but imo his strength is in his constant QR harass.  Actually I want to try a Corki/Rammus lane now.  Once the fight starts, Corki's E and Rammus' R are amazing AOE damage.  Rammus' taunt will keep the target in range of those AOEs as well as perfect placement for Corki's Q and R.

  • #8

    Why do you think Miss Fortune works so well with Rammus? Keeping people locked in her AoE all day. We have been debating trying out Corki/Rammus as well.

  • #9

    I wasn't denying her potenial with Rammus.  Her AOE slow allows for better initiations from rammus as well.  Actually I'm going to have to try that as well.  I'm always interested in playing non-traditional supports or team comps.

     

  • #10

    If you want to try it some time I'm always up for it. Add me in game. Xcalibro

  • #11

    @ViperiousTAW

    So you waste your flash and are out of position near my carry. All i have to do is to keep your carry in place with my stun  and you can't do squat solo. So in one fell swoop you've just wasted all your cooldowns, endangered yourself and have little means of escape. Come gank time you are dead.

    @xcalibro

    What tricks?? Rammus is a one trick pony. You go in, you taunt the carry, you tank the dmg. You literally can't do anything else. While i can easily outsustain you in lane with the heal.

     

  • #12

    @Amazagar

    I seriously think you are overestimating Taric my friend and you are getting WAY to heated over this. Not to mention with MF's impure shots on you if you try to heal off the damage you take, all you are going to do is use all of your mana for 50% healing. Have fun.

  • #13

    compare rammus to taric.

    taric offers the same amount of cc early in lane, just from range, while being tanky as fuck and giving ur ad free armor and heal.

    why would u prefer a squishy non tanky melee support, who has no good gap closer over others?

     

    taric >>> rammus

     

    also rammus cant initiate lategame.

    with no items u will die before reaching the enemy carries.

    a leona for example jumpst straight into the enemy team with full hp and after getting her full burst off shes still almost dead.

    rammus wont even get that close.

    he also only provides single target cc.

    there is no reason to pick rammus over sth else.

    Last edited by StacoOrikoro: 11/23/2012 3:13:10 PM
  • #14

    The same amount of CC as Rammus? HAHAHAHAHA. No where close buddy. Rammus a squishey non tanky support? HAHAHAHA Again, no where close.

    By the way are you saying it's completely up to the support to initiate EVERY single time no matter what? What about team comps? Did you just happen to forget that there are 4 other members on the team? Try again.

    Last edited by xcalibro: 11/23/2012 3:16:26 PM
  • #15

    Rammus' Powerball has a small range AOE knock up and slow attached to it.  Rammus can initiate very well but this requires flash.  Also with melee carries making a possible comeback his Defensive Ball Curl could turn out to be a great damage dealer to multiple targets.

  • #16

    @xcalibro

    50% healing >>>> no healing and no sustain. And I'm not overestimating taric.I know exactly what he can do. 

    Also low lvls taric does has same ammount of cc as rammus and its ranged. And is tankier. And has burst dmg . And has auras.

  • #17

    I have played Rammus a lot. A lot. He was my first favorite and I used to jungle him every game before he got hit in the nuts. I still play him from time to time. As a support? Not since before I started conforming to the Meta some years ago. The thing that makes him strong in lane, and that everyone has apparently overlooked is that his taunt also reduces armor. This is a big deal, especially in the bottom lane. He doesn't have any disadvantages that other primary supports do not also have, like low mobility and terrible defenses (Outside of his W).

    While I love Rammus, I cannot fathom why I would play him in lane when Leona (my new current favorite) has already got him beat with superior initiation and crowd control. What she might lack in damage in comparison to Rammus she makes up for with the ability to completely lock down an opponent. In a game where "safe" AD's are most played Rammus can have a hard time catching anyone without flash. I would suggest keeping Rammus in the jungle. He still performs amazing if you focus on ganking after your first clear and build wigglers or sunfire cape to help clear camps.

    I would greatly suggest teaming him with Corki to make them sit in his gatling gun and allowing him to keep his Valkyrie up to chase after they get untaunted. Corki also has his own special armor shred and true damage so the combo is much stronger than Ms. Fortune. CC carries work great too, like Ashe. She can either start with the arrow ultimate to set up for the taunt or the other way around to keep them pinned longer. 

    Corki is the man :P

  • #18

    We played Corki/Rammus. Corki went 13/2/17 and I (as Rammus) went 4/8/20 with a solid victory.

  • #20

    We get your point you really like Taric.  This is suppose to be a discussion about the viability of Rammus not "Why Taric is better for the current meta than Rammus as a Support"

  • #21

    Quote from ViperiousTAW »

    We get your point you really like Taric.  This is suppose to be a discussion about the viability of Rammus not "Why Taric is better for the current meta than Rammus as a Support"


    This.

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