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Why ban Vayne in solo q?

  • #21

    Quote from Stammer6 »

    Truth be told, Vayne doesn't need nerfs.

    I don't agree, counterplay is an important part of the game, but there is no counterplay against %hp true damage. It should be changed to flat true dmg.

    Last edited by Melkonka: 8/16/2013 11:22:37 AM
  • #22

    Quote from Melkonka »

    Quote from Stammer6 »

    Truth be told, Vayne doesn't need nerfs.

    I don't agree, counterplay is an important part of the game, but there is no counterplay against %hp true damage. It should be changed to flat true dmg.

    I agree - 60 flat and 8% is just too much. Perhaps even if it just scaled a bit less -  5% at max rank, but with stronger flat true damage. It would make health less of a liability. 

  • #23

    Hit the cooldown on her tumble, the movement speed on her passive + ult and maybe tone down the true damage by a % or two.  It's bullshit that you can't run from her so your only option is to fight her and the fact that she can reposition herself so frequently makes hitting targeted shots difficult at crucial times.

  • #24
    Quote from Melkonka

    Quote from Stammer6 ยป

    Truth be told, Vayne doesn't need nerfs.

    I don't agree, counterplay is an important part of the game, but there is no counterplay against %hp true damage. It should be changed to flat true dmg.

    this is a mistake I see everywhere, armor doesn't block true damage, Hp doesn't block % Hp true damage. However with the gold you can buy damage and burst vayne down with it. When defense fails you offense is the obvious choice. On top of that attack speed slows ala randuins and frozen heart are VERY effective against somone who's first 3 items are + attack speed. Remember attack speed increase are a % of base AS. Attack speed slows apply to your TOTAL attack speed. If your running double tanks against vayne you got out picked if your running double assassins against vayne she got out picked.

    That being said I do ban vayne in solo que, she is an incredible duelist and BoRK + ult makes her neigh unescapable if she engages a 1v1.
    Last edited by Gameguy301: 8/16/2013 5:29:07 PM
  • #25

    Quote from Stammer6 »

    The Blade of the Ruined King is what needs nerfs. But until then, the combination of Vayne with BotRK will probably just keep getting banned over and over.

    Imo, pretty much this. 

    Before botrk existed, you could either rush Damage (IE), Lifesteal/Damage (BT), or Attack Speed (PD). If she could hit hard and with crit, she had no lifesteal or attackspeed, if she had damage and lifesteal, no crit, and with crit and attackspeed, no damage.

    But with botrk she has a bit of everything. Damage(%hp), lifesteal, attack speed AND as bonus, the active. Plus barrier.

    Burn through your fears and reforge the blade.

  • #26

    I tend to view Vaynes strengths in how often you want her on your team, or against your team.

    Vayne is among the most self-sufficent of ADC's, able to escape, chase, and duel if her support takes a nose-dive early on. With a Tumble/Stealth escape, a targeted Stun/escape with her condem, and that massive damage steroids she holds dear.

    A number of soft engage Junglers hate facing her.  Trundle, Olaf, Udyr...anybody without multiple engagements.  Then you have Jarvan IV who can still gank, but Vayne is still a hard target to reach.  In team fight's she's also extremely easy to defend, pop a Xin Zhao or Alistar near her, and she's untouchable.

    Don't you hate it when you're unable to initiate on her? I have to play my Xin Zhao if I want to show Vayne a hard time, he's the only one fast enough to catch her in my eyes.  Your Shens, Volibears, and Sejuani's will have problems just touching Vayne, and she will SHRED them regardless.

    Vayne doesn't win the laning  game, she wins the team game by being a great team player. With great engagement, disengagement, powerful chasing tools to enter the fight if she's too far away, and a stealth tumble to escape a risky situation, she's a tough customer.  You don't want to face Kassadin and his binary port in and out game play ,but you're willing to face Vayne? She's a solid ban target!  When Draven was OP you saw a lot of him, but you didn't get annoyed with him stealth-rolling over your Jarvan walls, with him knocking you back or stunning you into the wall, eating your Rammus armor with that True damage. He just hurt your Kha'zix all AD's....yeah

    I prefer OP Daraven to OP Vayne.

  • #27

    Because you are a vampire and Vayne clearly counters you

  • #28

    I don't ban Vayne in solo queue. I ban her in teams where she has a 53% win rate. Yeah...

  • #29

    I have handed bottom lane on a silver platter to my team before, the enemy vayne being 0/2 - 0/4 and multiple games. Multiple, my team underestimates her only to find because she was still csing she has fangs. And soloq has no idea how to push objectives half the time so if the other team can drag it out even a little she'll tear through yours like nothing else. Frequently under estimated nightmare.

    And heaven forbid she get fed. Most teams have no idea how to deal with a fed vayne in soloq and low leagues.

  • #30

    There's two things that are strangely said which are pretty wrong about vayne :

    1/ YES armor counters vayne, it's not because her 3rd attack does %hpBruts that the 2 firsts aren't worth to mitigate / take into account.

    2/ Range supports (Zyra / Janna are good examples) wouldn't do great against Vayne, a good Vayne is untouchable by such slow CCs and once you miss your root with Zyra you are virtually dead (if not effectively). I would advice to play Leona vs Vayne, for two reasons : If you miss (or are stopped during) your zenith blade it's not a systematic death sentence, it cost nothing (I guess at early lvls you get your mana back with the CD) and you still have plenty of tools to stop her. The damages that Leona pulls are pretty good if your ADC isn't sleepy. Vayne needs time to do damages since she relies almost only on her AA.

  • #31

    They either need to de-emphasize the hypercarry aspect of Vayne or de-emphasize the duelist aspect. Her early game is not nearly as weak as it used to be, as many strong early-game ADCs have been nerfed, she's received some buffs, and she makes use of BotRK probably better than any other champion in the game. Her power spike at 6 is such that she overpowers pretty much any other ADC at that point, and with BotRK she can out-duel most  other champions. That leaves an awfully small window to shut her down before she reaches her godly lategame. 

    I'd say she needs a hit to her ult, or a hit to her W. 

  • #32

    IMHO vayne is op because her early game isn't that weak to compensate for her mid/late game.

    In the first 15/20 minutes all u have to do is farm, build a botrk and wait for a gank..sounds pretty op, comparing that to other adc with great powers and great weakness like trist or kog for example.

    Lvl 5 tumble cd is like 3 sec with no cdr at all.. and the ultimate is something like 60.. silver bullets is flat + % true dmg (and this is pretty crazy).. thats too strong bro. 

    Last edited by viappio: 8/17/2013 2:12:49 AM
  • #33

    All ADC's with self-peel and mobility are annoying but Vayne also has the best DPS in all the land to go with that. If Jax was ranged, this is what it would feel like playing against him. 

    BIT BY BIT

  • #34

    It's because people don't know how to play. You have to shut vayne down early. 

  • #35

    'Cause she is very strong and people really don't know how to shut her down probably.
    If she is fx. 0/10 with 300 farm in 20 minutes, she is still very strong.

    I've always wanted to become a walrus!MVGame

  • #36

    Very strong duelist, and is nowhere near as weak early as others make out. Very few can beat her Lv 6. BotRK makes her 'weak' earlygame even less promiment. As it stands right now, Vayne's only weal weak period is 1~5, which isn't enough to shut her down, due to the immense power she gains upon hitting 6, which would either happen first if you went back to buy to use the advantage you gained before, or happen when you haven't spent your advantage, making her crush you either way.

    Hard to pin down in teamfights due to constant stealth.

    Takes over the game if she gets so much as a couple of kills

    Due to a lack of co-ordination in SoloQ, games tend to drag on. Games dragging on makes Vayne rub her hands in glee.

     

    Between BotRK, Barrier, and various changes to both Vayne and other champions, her 'weak earlygame' is more like 'weak very earlygame' and her 'unstoppable hypercarry endgame' is an 'unstoppable hypercarry midgame onwards'.

     

    Oh, and idk why people are saying Caitlyn counters Vayne. Maybe Lv... 1~5? Then Vayne hits 6, with Silver Bolts, Tumble and R, and Caitlyn will automatically lose any fight against Vayne, god help her if Vayne has an aggressive support that can force the fight, like a Blitzcrank, Thresh, Taric, Nami, Sona, Leona, ect. Not to mention it dosen't really matter how hard Caitlyn shuts Vayne down, Caitlyn is the 2nd worst scaling ADC in the game, Vayne is the best. The difference between lategame Vayne and lategame Caitlyn is massive. I'd call Graves more of a counter due to his AoE Burst and the fact he can actualy fight her somewhat with his passive and Quickdraw steroid.

    Last edited by raikaria: 8/17/2013 5:22:12 AM
  • #37

    Quote from xmanors »

    It's because people don't know how to play. You have to shut vayne down early. 

    This isnt that easy. Her early game isnt downright terrible (compare her to nasus or poppy for example). Barrier, lifesteal quints, dorans, support babysitting, possible jungler babysit, lifesteal first buy from pretty much all vaynes while on the way to BotRK, all make shutting her down hard.

    You literally have at worst 6 lvls, at best 11, to completely crush her. Then you have to take that lead and end the game in the swiftest manner possible.

    Tbh, the more realistic window before you cant fight her anymore is lvl 9, maxed tumble and 2 second cd for stealthing. She will also likely have a BotRK near finished and thats ALL she needs.

    Saying people dont know how to play against her is pretty random. She is constantly picked in tournaments in all regions. And Shes even stronger in Solo Q.

  • #38

    Reason I ban her is because of Murphy`s law. For few weeks already, I had vayne in about 70% of games I played. From all of those games, I remember only ONE vayne out of all of them being in my team did any good actually. I also remember only maybe 2 vayne players from enemy team doing badly. So... vayne stays banned in games where I decide until they remove that fuking true dmg.
    I also like to ban Ahri, because if she is not banned 99%, she will be picked, mostly by my enemies.
    3rd ban is usually Yi... Notice the similarities? All got spammable true dmg.

  • #39

    Quote from KajzzeR »

    Reason I ban her is because of Murphy`s law. For few weeks already, I had vayne in about 70% of games I played. From all of those games, I remember only ONE vayne out of all of them being in my team did any good actually. I also remember only maybe 2 vayne players from enemy team doing badly. So... vayne stays banned in games where I decide until they remove that fuking true dmg.
    I also like to ban Ahri, because if she is not banned 99%, she will be picked, mostly by my enemies.
    3rd ban is usually Yi... Notice the similarities? All got spammable true dmg.

    What's the big deal with true dmg? Get some HP. And in case of Vayne, FH or Randuins'.

  • #40

    Quote from KajzzeR »

    Reason I ban her is because of Murphy`s law. For few weeks already, I had vayne in about 70% of games I played. From all of those games, I remember only ONE vayne out of all of them being in my team did any good actually. I also remember only maybe 2 vayne players from enemy team doing badly. So... vayne stays banned in games where I decide until they remove that fuking true dmg.
    I also like to ban Ahri, because if she is not banned 99%, she will be picked, mostly by my enemies.
    3rd ban is usually Yi... Notice the similarities? All got spammable true dmg.

    Theyre not gonna remove Vaynes true damage. Riot (and a lot of people) believe that A) Vayne requires a MIND BOGGLING amounts of skill to play and that B) MIND BOGGLING amounts of skill should have MIND BOGGLING amounts of power.

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