Let's talk Sivir

  • #1

    Sivir used to be one of my favorite champs when I was still leveling my account, but I totally dropped using her just because her shorter range isn't compensated enough by her kit in my opinion.

    The Visual Upgrade has already been shown, Riot also mentioned earlier that she won't be getting any major changes to her skills, the only changes are supposed to be "quality of life" changes.

    So, do you think Sivir's popularity will rise once the VU is out?

    Signature by Somecallmetoast :)

  • #2

    Her popularity will go up. If they dont fix her kit, she will just be picked for a week and then forgotten again.

    Look at soraka's visual remake. How many soraka's do you see? 

    Which is saddening, I love soraka and sivir. And Sivir is looking amazing.

  • #3

    I pretty much agree with the above. She does look good though.

  • #4

    Not sure how much her popularity will rise in all honesty, her kit is so weak in comparison to newer ADCs she's honestly painful to play (in my opinion).

  • #5

    If they remove the cast time on her ult and give her 25 more range or something, she can actually fuction at bot lane while still bringing the low-range thingy much like Graves and Quinn.

    -So much more to see...-

  • #6

    Actually, her kit is quite good. Q is good early game harrasing skill and mid-late game pushing ability, e is overall good skill, R is great team buff (Imagine teamcomp like this: sivir adc, kayle mid, ww jungle and irelia top :D).
    The meh things is her w, what doesn't really puts anything into her kit, and her passive, which imho could be moved into w or e, while freeing space for another, more useful passive.
    The terrible thing is her range, which HAVE to be buffed if smb was to play her.
    If riot would buff her range into 525 or even 550, give her a dash/escape on w and remove cast time from R, she would be a very good pick

    Last edited by Chromablues: 9/1/2013 11:34:41 AM
  • #7

    I think she needs more than that, her kit just offers nothing to compensate for her very low range. Her ult is a very average steroid, Ricochet offers weak aoe, and Boomerang is pretty slow moving skillshot. Her spell shield is interesting, but difficult to use effectively in teamfights.

    Graves and Quinn both have strong steroids + strong duelling kits, Sivir just doesn't.

    EDIT: Her ult bringing team utility isn't really what an ADC is about, they want the deeps, not to help the team.

    Last edited by KingDempz: 9/1/2013 11:36:43 AM
  • #8

    Well imo the biggest problem with Sivir is her AA range and huge mana costs. Her kit actually isn't too bad. If they add a bonus effect other than mana on her spell shield (sorta like Nocturne), lower the mana cost of Q by a bit or buff her base mana, and buff her AA range by about 75 (yes, make her AA range 575, Graves and Quinn have low AA ranges because they both are pretty much half bruiser and both have escapes and cc. Sivir however is a pokey pusher, her ult barely counts as an escape, and she's squishy as hell). Oh, and buff her base damage and scaling, seriously 49 + 2.9 AD is pretty bad.

    Video games, where anybody worse than you is a noob, anybody better than you has no life.

  • #9
    525 range would help her alot, her short range is made worse by her reliance on a very frequent attack reset. a tiny bit more damage on W wouldnt hurt either. they are talking about removing the cast time on her ult, IMO no speed boost should have a cast time as its just counter productive. (im looking at you raise morale.)

    (if i had my way id buff W damage alot but increase the cooldown to keep it balanced this would allow stronger trades and more lenient positioning. W very short cooldown forces sivir to stay in range to pull respectable damage which is very dangerous.)
    Last edited by Gameguy301: 9/1/2013 11:45:49 AM
  • #10

    You know, there are diffrent kinds of adc. Varus was a very strong competitive pick (fall out probably becasue of botrk nerfs), and Ashe is becoming more and more popular.
    Both are adc with tons of utility.
    On the other hand there are adc like Lucian or Corki, that brings only damage.
    It all depends on teamcomp. If you are running smth like orianna mid+nautilus jungle and you'd pick ashe or varus you may lack damage.
    BUT if you pick smth like master yi jungle and zed mid, adcs with utility really helps out the team.

  • #11

    Compare Sivir to Varus + Ashe. Not as strong in the utility category.

    Compare her to Lucian or Corki. Not as much damage.

    Compare her to Cait or Ez. Not as strong poke.

    She doesn't do anything better than other ADCs. My comment I suppose was poorly worded, when I say utility, I meant utility in the form of what is essentially an aura, and a pretty weak one at that. 

  • #12

    KK :D
    But in one thing you are right - now her abilities are rather weak.
    That's why she is being reworked.
    But imo her kit has potential, but has to be tweaked.

     

  • #13

    I think Riot need to think about what they want her to be. Because she is old, she doesn't have much direction to her kit, whereas newer ADCs clearly do.

    She needs to be geared towards something, e.g. poke, or pure damage, or dueling etc.

  • #14

     Oh, and buff her base damage and scaling, seriously 49 + 2.9 AD is pretty bad.

    I think her lower base damage is good simply because she her skills actually scale really well in comparison to many other ad carries, and they have high base damages, I think. I just did a quick check on this, comparing her Q to Graves for example, the maximum dmg that she can put out is both higher base-damage-wise, AND has better scaling. I haven't done any serious mathcrafting, but I definitely know the feeling of being bursted by Sivirs q and w. (I might be super wrong with this though since I actually didnt do any real, ambitious math behind it)

    Also, the range on those things is scary. It could maybe be enough to make up for her terrible autoattack range.

    That also would make her bring something more unique to the table as a marksman, since she is not just out to autoattack but her skills have more value damage wise than normally and you have to use them carefully in trades.

     Don't be a jerk

  • #15

    Theres just so many things that can buff Sivir. Im not sure why shes gotten one all right buff in the last year~.

    Im almost entirely convinced that if she had 550 range and NO other buffs, shed probably be VERY viable, maybe not top tier but, I wouldnt feel bad in ALL aspects ADC.

    The thing that made me definitively hate playing Sivir is the fact that, at least cait/ez/corki can ALWAYS choose to not die by simply blinking away. AND if theyre only slightly ahead, they can ALWAYS choose to pursue me while all I have is "right click and pray".

    I tried to "accept" her as a split push ADC, because she does clear waves very fast and can ult to kill towers, but Quinn IMO took that spot(and tbh all adcs are pretty strong tower pushers if they have the ward cover for it).

    Another buff, I think would make sivir good is, a flat E cooldown. Say, 12 seconds at all lvls. I know this "stomps" on mid lane and thats probably why it doesnt get buffed but for bot lane, Its just way too long.

    Also, making E lower mana cost, but less mana refund on spellblock, might be better. Say, 25 mana to block, return 50-75, instead of 75/150. It would mean she doesnt have 2 spells that cost big mana(Q is like 110), and its not so ridiculously punishing for missing a spell block. Ive literally gotten oom because a Sona mispositioned for her Q and it hit 2 minions, making me not spellblock and go oom(I was literally trying to walk to her to eat it). And there goes the lane flow, you are now OOM.

    The number of spammable spells really overwhelms her E too much(Ez Q, corki missile, kog barrage, all the spells a support could be throwing).

    Another thing, I would love to see, is make a portion of the stats on Sivir's Ult passive. Say. 4/8/12% MS and 10-20-30% AS passive, then the active is the team aura with less stats(they got transferred to passive) on sivir but the same on the team. Im ok with sivir's passive, and her MS superiority at times, but honestly everyone else has better pursue mechanics and better range AND cc.

    If sivir is gonna be low range no CC "up front" marksman, give her superiority in that aspect. Hell, for all her drawbacks, she doesnt even hyper carry or scale into late game with range, AS steroid, hp% damage, utility OR movement.

     

  • #16

    Let's chase them but stop short first.

    Sivir was the first champion I picked up and I'd love to see her buffed with her VU.

    Last edited by Ebp90: 9/1/2013 12:25:09 PM




  • #17

    Quote from Yuuria »

     Oh, and buff her base damage and scaling, seriously 49 + 2.9 AD is pretty bad.

    I think her lower base damage is good simply because she her skills actually scale really well in comparison to many other ad carries, and they have high base damages, I think. I just did a quick check on this, comparing her Q to Graves for example, the maximum dmg that she can put out is both higher base-damage-wise, AND has better scaling. I haven't done any serious mathcrafting, but I definitely know the feeling of being bursted by Sivirs q and w. (I might be super wrong with this though since I actually didnt do any real, ambitious math behind it)

    Also, the range on those things is scary. It could maybe be enough to make up for her terrible autoattack range.

    That also would make her bring something more unique to the table as a marksman, since she is not just out to autoattack but her skills have more value damage wise than normally and you have to use them carefully in trades.

    Im pretty sure you are correct. Her potential is ridiculous, in actuality it isnt. 

    If she gets close to you, with her no tools to do so, into 500 range, and she AA+W+Q, and Q hits on the way back as well, she will do ridiculous damage.

    What is more likely to happen is, she goes to you, and you stutterstep shoot her for free, and if she throws boomerang, it scales down by 20%~ per minion blocking it, and you might use your dodge move to avoid half or all of the Q damage.

    I know Im ragging on someone that I supposedly like, but, she went from an iconic champ who got me started in this game around exactly the time I hit 30, to someone who I felt punished for picking and has been ignored for 2~ years by Riot.

  • #18

     

    If sivir is gonna be low range no CC "up front" marksman, give her superiority in that aspect. Hell, for all her drawbacks, she doesnt even hyper carry or scale into late game with range, AS steroid, hp% damage, utility OR movement.

     

    This essentially, they need to target their buffs, rather than just randomly buff her up. Decide what she does, buff her so she does it better.

  • #19

    I'm guessing that the reason sivir doesn't have the increase on her aa range is her potentional to close the gap of aa range between carries with the long range snipes on her q giving her 50 ms. Though she does need some sort of buff to make her more viable, or just a support that really synergises well with her.

  • #20

    yeah darxcrix, Agreed, but that buff was one of the few buffs in 2 years that didnt really fix her. I would prefer so many things to that "bandaid". 

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