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Help playing against Udyr

  • #1

    I've been playing against a lot of Udyr jungles lately, and he's hard to deal with. I'm not sure what's the best course of action, the best I can do is predict where he is going to gank and counter him, however that doesn't stop him. He normally will snowball all his lanes, or he will gain a plentiful amount of kills from doing so. Mid game he gets annoying, the only time I feel comfortable against him is in late game, but I'm looking for an early game counter. Do you have any idea what I could use to counter this?

  • #2

    Udyr has no gap closer outside of a short duration speed increase. He's countered by slows and being kited. Inform your team accordingly and hope for the best. Also he has no fancy mobility moves to allow him unique gank paths, so ward as well.

  • #3

    Counterjungle him. Make sure you CC lock him. He has burst in Phoenix and sustained dmg in Tiger (ok some burst too, but not much unless full AD). I suggest someone gets Shurelya's. AD NEEDS BotrK. He has to be kited. If hes making good ganks and you can't countergank, eat his jungle to punish him. Try stealing his blue or red so his ganks aren't as strong or he has to go b early.

     

    Im lower elo than you, but that's what Ive learned through the the last two SGU weeks.

     

     

  • #4

    Slows / kite. play ashe/blue ez. Ward, dont fight him one on one in melee range. 

  • #5

    I know how to play against Udyr as a team, however in solo queue it's not very easy to educate your team in five minutes. I was looking for jungle picks that are most favorable against him.

    Last edited by razorzxz: 7/23/2013 10:51:29 AM
  • #6

    Udyr isn't any better now than he was a few months ago when nobody played him.

    Just smack him around! But honestly it really depends on what role you're playing, if you had a chance to counter him, and if he's insanely fed.

    There's a big difference between dealing with him as an ADC and dealing with him as a jungler. DEPENDS DEPENDS DEPENDS.

    I need to know what role you play, who you usually play in that role, etc etc. There are GENERAL tips of course, but that's not really what you're looking for right? I mean yeah I could tell you that if you kite

    him he's useless, but you want something more I think.

    Last edited by DremoricDran: 7/23/2013 11:04:51 AM

    "To be forgotten is worse than death"

    Dremoric Dran - NA

  • #7

    Someone like maokai, who can gank hard, is your best best.  He also provides hard CC keeping him off your adc.  Since the new trend is blue- red - gank, maokai's level 3 gank is one of the strongest in the game.  If he is counter jungling you hard, this is your best bet.  J4 also has strong ganks, and his CC is very good at keeping udyr away from your carry.  What you need to be careful of his udyr comming to your red at level 2. This makes maokai strong as he can sapling check bushes easy.  Udyr really isnt that good of a champion. 

  • #8

    so I have been playing a ton of udyr in the jungle. 

    the top 2 things you can do as a jungler to counter udyr is:

    a) ward for your lanes and ping when you see him on the map. if you have vision of the enemy jungler (lanes, in his jungle, in your jg, etc.) you will have control over HIM. You can sit in a bush and gank him. You can counter gank. You can save a ally. Steal his jungle. Why is this difficult to do? Well, wards aren't fun to buy. BUY THEM! every back buy 1-2 green and 1 pink (you shouldnt be going back often, so this ratio is enough with the help of other teammates to counter and have vision).

    b) PUSH OTHER LANES! If you see udyr ganking top, go bot/mid and push and take the turret down asap - albeit this will be much more difficult with the  buffing of outer turrets in the first 8 minutes.

    why is udyr scary (it's that bear roar). HE IS FAST (especially if he is going utility MS udyr. he clears jungle quickly, ganks fast, and also has great objective control from this. Even though he is difficult to deal with, with effective wards and communication, you should be able to stop him. In SoloQ, this is tough. One gank bot giving up FB, negative attitude - the game is ruined. TELL YOUR LANES TO PLAY SAFELY (during the first 6-8 minutes of the game). If they don't listen and die, IT IS UP TO YOU TO CARRY. Either get fed or get your OTHER lanes fed (although bot is hard to deal with when fed). 

    Play hard engage/disengage champs. Champs that want lvl 6 asap. Sejuani (you will turn the game around at about 15 minute mark). Trundle - you can slow his engage, well, making him much less useful (as you can poke him down now). Lee sin, your early ganks are actually better than his, so by the time he comes in to gank, the lane is already won. 

    Run away early. A lot of people want to fight early on. Why? If you die you have a much lower chance of winning. Don't fight him early.

    Udyr is a common pick right now, but if you plan to kick his ass (or play him yourself), make sweet sweet love to his mother, and he can't say shittttt.

  • #9

    Udyr is extremely easy to kite. I've been counterpicking top lane udyr and trundle with Vayne for weeks. In one particular instance, the udyr got first blood and multiple kills off of my jungler and mid throughout his roaming and teamfights, and yet when he split pushed he did absolutely no damage to me while I destroyed him. I could 100 to 0 him without taking a single bear slap.

    It just comes down to mechanics and warding. If you ward properly and kite well, Udyr isn't a problem.

    Preparing for the climb is scary.

  • #10

    I know she is considered unviable but Karma easily can shutdown an udyr gank with all of her abilities, they stop and slow him and her E lets you speed up your team too. I really find her valuable vs must-kite enemy types like riven, singed, udyr, nasus, rumble, etc...but the above mentioned with kiting mechanics and wards is essential regardless of the champ!

  • #11

    Quote from Kiedisticelixer »

    Im lower elo than you, but that's what Ive learned through the the last two SGU weeks.

    Love that term. SGU weeks. Hopefully it wont be the same as PFE months.

    I really wish I would have seen the game where gambit ended in 20 mins with an udyr jungler, but I only caught the inhib break at 20 mins.

    Anyways, at least 3 people in this thread called udyr kiteable. I really dont get where this comes from. Its like if everyone thinks it, its true.

    Doesnt he have 15 MS passive? and 3 second speed buff on a 3.6 second cd when capped cdr? its like 80% uptime ghost, as he also ignores collision.

    I really believe this comes from some of the stronger champs in the meta, mostly ez being uncatchable and thresh being so freaking good, but other than that I dont understand this "Udyr is unplayable cause hes kiteable".

    Last edited by Elmanbeastio: 7/23/2013 8:19:36 PM
  • #12

    Quote from razorzxz »

    I know how to play against Udyr as a team, however in solo queue it's not very easy to educate your team in five minutes. I was looking for jungle picks that are most favorable against him.

    Best picks I can think off straight off the bat are Lee sin and Nunu. Nunu has 2 MS/AS slows and bloodboil for your team, probably the most anti udyr champ ever.

    Lee Sin can just kick him out of your team if hes an issue, and he has AS/MS slow on his E too.

    Both of these are strong early game junglers so dueling or counterjungling against udyr(mostly with trickery,  dont stand there trading inefficiently) are viable options.

  • #13

    I see some things I consider wrong, and others I consider right, and others I consider so so and iffy and awesome and BLARG.

    Remember, Tiger Udyr and Phoenix Udyr are entirely different beasts!  I'm going to assume you're facing a Utility Udyr, as those are not only all the rage, but solve tons of issues Udyr usually has like Mana problems and movement speed issues.

    First up, know that if he's that Utility Udyr with those CDR masteries, he's going to really want blue. With blue and those masteries, he'll be able to Spam one stance to keep up his passive instead of two, now why is this important?  He'll be Tiger/Phoenix procing more often, he'll shift Bear into Bear to move and chase faster, he'll chain Turtles to tank more, and he's spending far less mana overall!  That's just amazing!

    Another is how powerful a Jungler Udyr is, he clears fast. His Ganking is weak but his tower diving is hella strong.  Expect him to build a few tanky items and start diving you, playing safe is a limited option at best!  As they said Warding and Kiting are huge, I've had problems facing Vayne, Elise, Trundle, and at times Lee Sin if he knows what he's doing. However, tanky/CC Junglers don't faze Udyr. He's going to camp and dominate a Maokai, he'll out run a Hecarim, he'll smash down Caitlyn, he'll completely walk over Cho'gath, fight with Tryndamere, and duel with Xin Zhao.

    But Phoenix Udyr wouldn't quit if he doesn't get kills, he farms fast. Very fast. Very very fast! If you're Udyr's not top on CS, he's either top on kill's, or your ADC's getting every single minion in his lane.  This said, his early to mid game team fighting is extremely strong, he's not ultimate reliant. He's ALWAYS at max power. Did your Shen just ult bot? He's weaker, Sona's ult gone you lose Dragon, Zed, Malphite, Malzahar, Annie...they have important ultimates right?  Like a Diana, Udyr's always rearing to smash some faces in..more so than anybody else!  As long as Udyr has mana, he'll dive you, he has a Shield right? Why would he worry about his life? He out runs nearly everything, shields poke damage away!

    So yeah, lots of positives......

    But Udyr can be kited, he can't get past front lines. Udyr's initiation technique includes "CHAAAARGE" and hoping the CC and Damage burst doesn't kill him, if it doesn't he's free to win with his team behind him, his part complete.

    Champions that tend to limit Udyr's mobility, out duel him, or provide plenty of easy and spammable escapes have advantages over him.  Trundle will go even with Udyr early, having the slight advantage in Duels even against Tigers, Tiger Udyr nearly wins 113 out of 114 Match-ups, and that usual loss is Trundle! Eating AD and providing stronger steroids. Udyr loves resistances as it makes his shield hardier, Trundle likes to steal resistances...see a pattern here?  Trundle will beat Udyr with less items early, and the same items late.  Maokai's CC will just get him trapped in Udyr's Bear-stun madness, but Jarvan IV's CC will just hurt Udyr to no end. Jarvan jumps walls, creates walls, provides a slow shield, AND shreds Armor, that's just something Udyr doesn't like to face! Udyr will go even with Jarvan early or even beat him, but Jarvan IV is a solid safe pick against Udyr.

    To add in more points, Vayne is once again amazing at stopping Udyr.  She's got a decent chase mechanic for when he runs. Then you add the resistance piercing Bolts and Udyr's health drops FAST. Udyr doesn't like building health remember? That Turtle Shield is just too good to pass up beefing it up.

     Udyr's amazing at fighting Baron, but horrible at contesting it. He wants to just walk into Brush and tank his foes, but they're not always that stupid right? He also lacks a big game-changing ultimate, either Udyr's making the impact, or he's not making any impact. If he gets behind he's got nothing special to fall back on.

    To finish it, Udyr's the greediest Buff taker in the game, he wants his Blue's, his Red's, your blues and reds. He will FIGHT for them, and if he doesn't take advantage. If Udyr can't secure his buff's you're on the way to win the game. 

    Lots of typing.

    Last edited by Misticaltom: 7/23/2013 8:29:48 PM
  • #14

    Best jungle picks I can think of off the top of my head are Zac, Trundle, Nunu, and surprisingly Dr. Mundo. All of these champions have strong slows, fast clears, high mobility and high sustain (except Dr. Mundo pre 6).

    Zac is the best team fighter and initiator of these picks with his long range jump and ultimate, and of course his passive is badass.

    Trundle can literally stop any champion without a blink gap closer with his pillar and in some cases completely trap them out of a fight or away from their team, and his ultimate will essentially render any tank useless.

    Nunu of course is Satan, with his Blood Boil and snowballs he can continually kite or chase any champion without a blink gap closer while assisting his allies.

    Dr. Mundo is a more selfish version of Nunu with infinite long-range cleavers and of course goes where he pleases.

    Each one of them has some way of dealing with Udyr and when combined with proper warding and counter-ganks it can be much easier to shut him down, and which one you choose depends on what kind of jungler you need that game; hard initiation? Zac. Strong counter-initiation? Trundle. Utility and support? Satan. Murder power and godlike tankiness? Dr. Mundo.

  • #15

    Quote from Falseshadow »

    Best jungle picks I can think of off the top of my head are Zac, Trundle, Nunu, and surprisingly Dr. Mundo. All of these champions have strong slows, fast clears, high mobility and high sustain (except Dr. Mundo pre 6).

    Zac is the best team fighter and initiator of these picks with his long range jump and ultimate, and of course his passive is badass.

    Trundle can literally stop any champion without a blink gap closer with his pillar and in some cases completely trap them out of a fight or away from their team, and his ultimate will essentially render any tank useless.

    Nunu of course is Satan, with his Blood Boil and snowballs he can continually kite or chase any champion without a blink gap closer while assisting his allies.

    Dr. Mundo is a more selfish version of Nunu with infinite long-range cleavers and of course goes where he pleases.

    Each one of them has some way of dealing with Udyr and when combined with proper warding and counter-ganks it can be much easier to shut him down, and which one you choose depends on what kind of jungler you need that game; hard initiation? Zac. Strong counter-initiation? Trundle. Utility and support? Satan. Murder power and godlike tankiness? Dr. Mundo.


    I believe the best korean jungler in osl recently stated in an interview that he feels the two best junglers to be elise and lee sin (he did mention a 3rd but it escapes my memory).  Just thought I'd mention it because they offer drastically different things than the junglers you mentioned above.

  • #16

    J4 is a good choice since udyr runs ghost and not flash.  Just ult Udyr, flag pull out of the ult and let your team rape the other team.

    However, I find Vi is a good person, simply because she engages APC or ADC and knocks everyone else to the side, opening up for more engages.

    But the best anti Udyr is Mundo.  If you know how to skill shot, Udyr does nothing to you as mundo's Q is based on Health % until the base damage is more than the health %.

    Season 4 Road to Challenger: AoE team with CC, welcome to League of AoEC.

  • #17

    I've had really good success with Mundo when countering Udyr. Here is why Mundo is a good match up: He has faster clear times if you put priority on Burning Agony and Masochism, taking Masochism first will make dueling Udyr at lv2 a non issue, with Burning Agony and some tenacity you can just brush Udyr's stuns off very quickly and only lasting .(35sec at max level), you can kite Udyr like crazy with Infected Cleaver, Infected Cleaver is awesome for taking dragon at early levels as the damage scales with enemy health. Udyr can be an unstoppable SOB, but Mundo is much more overwhelming with higher damage auto attacks when ganking.

  • #18

    Quote from tuestresfat »

    Quote from Falseshadow »

    Best jungle picks I can think of off the top of my head are Zac, Trundle, Nunu, and surprisingly Dr. Mundo. All of these champions have strong slows, fast clears, high mobility and high sustain (except Dr. Mundo pre 6).

    Zac is the best team fighter and initiator of these picks with his long range jump and ultimate, and of course his passive is badass.

    Trundle can literally stop any champion without a blink gap closer with his pillar and in some cases completely trap them out of a fight or away from their team, and his ultimate will essentially render any tank useless.

    Nunu of course is Satan, with his Blood Boil and snowballs he can continually kite or chase any champion without a blink gap closer while assisting his allies.

    Dr. Mundo is a more selfish version of Nunu with infinite long-range cleavers and of course goes where he pleases.

    Each one of them has some way of dealing with Udyr and when combined with proper warding and counter-ganks it can be much easier to shut him down, and which one you choose depends on what kind of jungler you need that game; hard initiation? Zac. Strong counter-initiation? Trundle. Utility and support? Satan. Murder power and godlike tankiness? Dr. Mundo.


    I believe the best korean jungler in osl recently stated in an interview that he feels the two best junglers to be elise and lee sin (he did mention a 3rd but it escapes my memory).  Just thought I'd mention it because they offer drastically different things than the junglers you mentioned above.


    Biggest problem I have with Lee Sin and Elise is that most people can't play them well in the jungle if at all. I can't count the number of Elise players I've crushed because of their poor champion knowledge. Also, this is about countering Udyr, so Elise is low on my list. She's extremely mana and cooldown reliant, she's super squishy early on, she's a poor duelist and is easily invaded. The best Elise can hope for is to Cocoon and Rappel out of Udyr's way, but that still leaves her jungle open for Udyr to take everything. Lee Sin fares better, but Udyr can still out duel him in terms of raw damage, especially in the early game. If the Lee Sin player doesn't have the knowledge to take advantage of unique jungle pathing, escaping and juking then he will die fairly quickly.

    Therefore I'm posting junglers who are far more resilient in terms of team fighting potential, raw dueling power, and ease of use. I mean really, how much skill do you need to press Nunu's Q and run in a circle compared to Lee Sin and Elise?

  • #19

    Honestly, with the incoming of Doran's blade start for duelist junglers, I don't think that Mundo or Zac could be a safe choice against Udyr, especially Tiger Udyr (negative sustain simply doesn't work well during early trades, and especially Zac is not a great duelist). Also, junglers with negative sustains have a really fragile early game and if Udyr manages to set you behind, your chances to come back are mostly like zero.

    Definitely I'm not a pro, but I'm practicing Udyr a lot (since I seen Diamond playing him in week 4 against MYM) and in the last week I reached a nice 60% win rate with a 3.04 KDA (not bad at all for me, since I totally suck as jungler).

    People often states he's easily kitable,  but if you don't have some serious cc in your team, pray God for having an ADC with a god-like positioning, otherwise when teamfights start he'll be gone in a blink.

    Hard CC and warding are things that works great with Udyr, since his mobility comes from running fast across the map. As most people stated, Nunu could probably be the best choice: he has an exhaust on-demand, ms/as buff and consume + ignite for some sneaky buff stealing. Lee Sin could be also a solid pick, because he can easily disengage if Udyr tries to go in on your carry, but he requires more mechanics.

    Best!

  • #20

    Udyr has such weaknesses that you don't have to counter him. He usually gets countered by just proper positioning and kiting.

    As a jungler I'd say just avoid him. If you want to fight him do it guerrilla style and abuse the top-tier: Lee Sin, Elise or Nunu. They can easily outmanouver Udyr. In teamfights especially Lee Sin (R him out of the fight, E) and Nunu (E, R) work against Udyrs kit. Jarvan and Nasus are good at this too, but they can't deal with early game Udyr - but who can they deal with 1v1 early anyways?

    Really need to go face to face him? Trundle was mentioned but Shyvana will do good as well. Shyvana atm is arguably the strongest bruiser in a simple fistfight. She would contest with Udyr for this spot but I think she'll win. Plus she outfarms him so hard. Oh, and there's Volibear, who doesn't care about turtle, is faster early game, can stack tank while still maintaining a high damage output and has a displacement that totally wrecks Udyr in all stages of the game.

    IMO, Tiger doran is supbar to Phoenix - which is more gold efficient, clears faster and lasts way longer through the game in terms of usefulness just by building tank. Phoenix can stack tankitems and still do respectable damage. Tiger has to come up with some offensive stuff in order to stay of use.

     

    So there's there you have it. About all top-tier champions wreck tiger udyr in more than one ways:

    Lee sin, Elise, Nunu, Jarvan, Nasus, Volibear, Shyvana

    Udyr is kitable like hell .. extra edit

    People still don't seem to understand , Extra % MS will add less when you get slowed. (the passive isn't enough when it really matters and costs loads of mana). Moreso: MS takes a long way to make a difference. Sustainable slows (mundo, trundle, nunu) totally wreck champions like Udyr who rely on MS multipliers while displacements and stuns just make him laughing stock.

    Take Vi and Jarvan, while they may be way slower they have more than one way to get back to you, jump over walls, dive through your team. Udyr has no option like this. This is also why you take flash>ghost.

    Don't get me wrong I love udyr. Because of this huge ass weakness they made him hit like a truck and tank like a freighttrain. He's a true beast but for him to show his ferile manliness he has to be able to stand toe to toe with you, which is hard.

    Last edited by new_utero: 7/24/2013 4:07:59 AM

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