I recently heard of this movement that ON PURPOSE avoids vaccination for either them or their kids and I was like "How are you still alive guys?"
Didn't know it was such a huge controversy, but apparently people really believe that diseases that ACTUALLY KILLED PEOPLE in the past are not a thing today anymore, only a lie to sell the vacs. Or their flagship argument "I never had this disease, my kids won't either so I don't have to vac them" and weeks later you hear about that freaking measles outbreak.
We were talking in the Skype conversation about this and it got me intrigued, so what do you think about the whole thing?
You can probably tell, but my opinion is highly biased towards saying that everybody who believes it is a good thing is stupid. If you want to die, your choice. But don't be a danger for society.
I also don't want this to turn into a flamewar of some sorts.
Hope I can get some insight on this, maybe you even know some people?
Vaccinations are important to making sure that terrible diseases like polio and smallpox remain as extremely rare cases. Ofc it's because the government gets involved that people naturally become suspicious, but these people also endanger the public by not taking vaccines and spreading the disease potentially.
The true victims are people who cannot receive certain vaccinations due to a medical complication/history that prevents them otherwise. They cannot be vaccinated and therefore are vulnerable, so when people who simply refuse be vaccinated by choice catch the disease and spread it....well, do I have to continue on that subject?
This subject does intrigue me, but likewise I also have a feeling it'll be heated, so I'll be keeping an eye on this for now. Otherwise, it's an interesting topic.
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"Dont fear failure. Not failure, but low aim, is the crime. In great attempts, it is glorious even to fail."
I think it's a pretty twisted form of ignorance and selfishness combined. First of all even if it was true that these vaccinations lead to autism in some cases- Autism is worse then polio? Autism is worse the smallpox? .....Wow what a message to send to families in your communities with autistic kids: you'd rather have your kid die young then live autistic.
Second of all, they don't lead to autism. These lies have been a scare tactic of companies that sell "home remedies" for autism for many years now.
I wouldn't care if they don't vaccinate themselves if it only meant that they are endangering themselves but sadly they are a danger to others as B3hr7 already mentioned and are endangering their kids because of sheer ignorance.
As far as I know you have to vaccinate your kid in france for them to be allowed to go to school which is the right thing to do if you ask me.
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"Don't judge a man by his normal games."
- xOnionx as he went 1/7/3 against a silver 1 bob.
Honestly I play like a hyperagressive shitheaded tryhard in normals...
Its an awkward situation when you consider the government only real purpose is to protect its citizens even if it means from themselves often times. Most people mistake that last part.
I hope something could be done to stop these movements since it seems to just include people with a lack of information or less educated individuals. How can you convince less educated people who are overly passionate about something. This situation is near impossible. This is exactly like why religion often times leads to so many wars. Overly passionate less educated individuals.
Disclaimer: I have nothing against religion or others beliefs. (Unless your beliefs lead you to believe its okay to hurt others then frankly fuck your beliefs)
Just realize that hurting others is possible then research how you can avoid such situations.
Notes: Regarding the strikethrough part, that should be saved for a different topic.
Getting vaccinated does have inherent risks, but not getting vaccinated comes with the risk of viral outbraks which is definitely more dangerous for a much larger demographic
anyone with a decent high school education should be aware of the importance of Vaccines, but ignorance is the disease to spread diseases...
well... dumb parents would probably raise dumb kids... if they go extinct with this generation, due to killing their own successors, i see better future for our children...
it may seem harsh from me, but if someone is as retarded as these people, they deserve darwin to dance on their dead bodies...
edit: nowadays even some chloride medical treamtent is becoming popular... people tryin to poison their children, bcs someone on internet said its healthy... well, while its inhuman, u cant lock all of those retards behind bars... i would shoot them, but there are laws against it as well... so i cant do anything to help them... just leave mother nature to get rid of weaker (dumb) ones as time goes by...
edit2: still leaves the problem of spreading those diseases among other children... french guys are doin good work when it comes to this... in our country, vaccinating is common and i dont see this new trend to grow soon... hopefully...
Its an awkward situation when you consider the government only real purpose is to protect its citizens even if it means from themselves often times. Most people mistake that last part.
I hope something could be done to stop these movements since it seems to just include people with a lack of information or less educated individuals. How can you convince less educated people who are overly passionate about something. This situation is near impossible. This is exactly like why religion often times leads to so many wars. Overly passionate less educated individuals.
Disclaimer: I have nothing against religion or others beliefs. (Unless your beliefs lead you to believe its okay to hurt others then frankly fuck your beliefs)
Just realize that hurting others is possible then research how you can avoid such situations.
I'll be offtopic for a short moment then return to the topic at hand. Regarding "religion starts wars," it's more appropriate to say "conflicting ideologies causes wars." Whether religious, political, based on some sort of feud regarding materialistic reasons, etc., many wars have started due to conflicting ideologies of different people/cultures. Case in point the Crusade wars. Also, keep in mind that forcing a new ideology on the masses also sparks huge problems, e.g. being when Communism was introduced to Russia. Not everyone liked the idea, but unfortunately for those people Stalin had a rather "easy" way to deal with them.
Returning to the topic, I agree about the poor information part leading to many people not seeking vaccinations. Information that is valid and legit is our most powerful weapon to educating the masses regarding things like vaccinations so that people don't scurry away from bad rumors like "vaccines cause autism."
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"Dont fear failure. Not failure, but low aim, is the crime. In great attempts, it is glorious even to fail."
I can honestly get mad over people failing to understand the importance. I don't care if you think you probably won't get the disease, if you spread it a lot of people can get very ill just because you failed to understand a simple risk. There is literally no reason not to vaccinate yourself. For god sake, why would you risk something so dangerous?
As said by others, it's often a shortage of knowledge about the subject. If you have a limited network of sources providing the information, and one of them says that Vaccines can cause autism you are prone to believe it. It's rather sad really.
If anyone is looking for more information, this is the journal article that originally made the link of vaccines to autism. Vaccines & autism
Long story short: Paper was partially retracted, then fully retracted, then Dr. Wakefield lost his medical license, Wakefield is in no small part responsible for the deaths of thousands (and more in the future) of people due to the spread of mis-information.
I loosely do research in the area of vaccines (specifically therapeutic - cancer vaccines). The biggest issue is that sometimes the additives or preservatives can cause (usually very minor) side effects. Vaccines are continually improved and when robust and peer-reveiwed research reveals an unforseen problem, it is fixed. For example, Pluserix and Immravax were removed because of a higher risk of side effects (not autism though) than other alternatives.
It's really sad to know that it took the deaths of innocent children to finally get these dumbass ANTI-VAC parents to re-evaluate their stance. I'm all for freedom (and by relation, the freedom to be stupid and not vaccinate your kids), but in that case, I'll exercise my freedom to tell them to keep the **** away from me.
EDIT - Polio was eradicated from India last year... like seriously... this is because vaccines exist! I wish ignorant people would just think logically sometimes.
In theory, as long as the environment of the non-vacc person is vaccinated, then the person who was not vaccinated actually took lower risk. The non-vacc person actually getting the disease from someone else is 0, since they are all vaccinated. Vaccinated people obviously have no risk of getting the disease. Vaccination inherently contain a risk, but this risk is lower than the disease's risk. So, basically the non-vacc person took 0 risk, while those who got vaccinated took the risk of the vaccination.
The problem begins when there are more non-vacc people together. Basically, not getting vaccinated is just very selfish, and it getting wide-spread can be dangerous.
I think that the way Australia wants to go about the anti-vaccination movement is great. Vaccination is mandatory if you want government benefits, and you can only opt out if you have legitimate health issues. No more *insert arbitrary belief or reason why vaccination is bad* bs. It's been proven to be good. It's been beaten into the ground as a fact, and if you don't believe it, well good luck disproving 200 years worth of scientific research.
Tho, it might be something good to sustain on the basis that it's natural selection. Also watching those sods dying of illnesses which are easily prevented. There is a certain amount of entertainment value, I concede
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Tho, it might be something good to sustain on the basis that it's natural selection. Also watching those sods dying of illnesses which are easily prevented. There is a certain amount of entertainment value, I concede
Sadly it also affects innocent children... That's also my main problem with it but I guess it takes something extreme like the deaths of children to change the mind of people.
The short answer is conspiracy theories. The slightly longer answer is people get worked up over potential side effects more than the disease and the drug companies aren't really doing anything to make them seem better.
Now there are some more complex issues such as giving the HPV shot to people under the age of consent without their parent's knowledge or permission, but that's not the typical case.
Hope I can get some insight on this, maybe you even know some people?
If I knew somebody that refuses to vaccinate himself, I'd stop knowing him / her. There was an incident that a 5-year old died due to some disease that he was carrying ALL THE TIME SINCE HIS BIRTH because parents refused to have a standard baby illness check and never brought him to the doctor. Educated people. We all are stupid in some way, but some forms of stupidity are just dangerous to the specie.
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I seriously hope this doesn't get spamfiltered.
I recently heard of this movement that ON PURPOSE avoids vaccination for either them or their kids and I was like "How are you still alive guys?"
Didn't know it was such a huge controversy, but apparently people really believe that diseases that ACTUALLY KILLED PEOPLE in the past are not a thing today anymore, only a lie to sell the vacs. Or their flagship argument "I never had this disease, my kids won't either so I don't have to vac them" and weeks later you hear about that freaking measles outbreak.
We were talking in the Skype conversation about this and it got me intrigued, so what do you think about the whole thing?
You can probably tell, but my opinion is highly biased towards saying that everybody who believes it is a good thing is stupid. If you want to die, your choice. But don't be a danger for society.
I also don't want this to turn into a flamewar of some sorts.
Hope I can get some insight on this, maybe you even know some people?
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GoldPeople actually believe vaccination gives their kids autism...
Right! I forgot that lol
?????
How did they even make the kids if they believe that. Doesn't kissing a girl make you gay?
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ModeratorVaccinations are important to making sure that terrible diseases like polio and smallpox remain as extremely rare cases. Ofc it's because the government gets involved that people naturally become suspicious, but these people also endanger the public by not taking vaccines and spreading the disease potentially.
The true victims are people who cannot receive certain vaccinations due to a medical complication/history that prevents them otherwise. They cannot be vaccinated and therefore are vulnerable, so when people who simply refuse be vaccinated by choice catch the disease and spread it....well, do I have to continue on that subject?
This subject does intrigue me, but likewise I also have a feeling it'll be heated, so I'll be keeping an eye on this for now. Otherwise, it's an interesting topic.
"Dont fear failure. Not failure, but low aim, is the crime. In great attempts, it is glorious even to fail."
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GoldI think it's a pretty twisted form of ignorance and selfishness combined. First of all even if it was true that these vaccinations lead to autism in some cases- Autism is worse then polio? Autism is worse the smallpox? .....Wow what a message to send to families in your communities with autistic kids: you'd rather have your kid die young then live autistic.
Second of all, they don't lead to autism. These lies have been a scare tactic of companies that sell "home remedies" for autism for many years now.
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DiamondLong-story-short: They are the ones that are retarded.
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PlatinumJust a small part of a college humor video.
I wouldn't care if they don't vaccinate themselves if it only meant that they are endangering themselves but sadly they are a danger to others as B3hr7 already mentioned and are endangering their kids because of sheer ignorance.
As far as I know you have to vaccinate your kid in france for them to be allowed to go to school which is the right thing to do if you ask me.
"Don't judge a man by his normal games."
- xOnionx as he went 1/7/3 against a silver 1 bob.
Honestly I play like a hyperagressive shitheaded tryhard in normals...
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GoldIts an awkward situation when you consider the government only real purpose is to protect its citizens even if it means from themselves often times. Most people mistake that last part.
I hope something could be done to stop these movements since it seems to just include people with a lack of information or less educated individuals. How can you convince less educated people who are overly passionate about something. This situation is near impossible.
This is exactly like why religion often times leads to so many wars. Overly passionate less educated individuals.Disclaimer: I have nothing against religion or others beliefs. (Unless your beliefs lead you to believe its okay to hurt others then frankly fuck your beliefs)Just realize that hurting others is possible then research how you can avoid such situations.
"Never play the Meta its boring"- League hipster
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PlatinumWell if people wouldn't die of diseases I guess they're supposed to die of retardation then. I don't know.
This reminds me that I need to renew some of my vaccinations.
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DiamondGetting vaccinated does have inherent risks, but not getting vaccinated comes with the risk of viral outbraks which is definitely more dangerous for a much larger demographic
anyone with a decent high school education should be aware of the importance of Vaccines, but ignorance is the disease to spread diseases...
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Platinumwell... dumb parents would probably raise dumb kids... if they go extinct with this generation, due to killing their own successors, i see better future for our children...
it may seem harsh from me, but if someone is as retarded as these people, they deserve darwin to dance on their dead bodies...
edit: nowadays even some chloride medical treamtent is becoming popular... people tryin to poison their children, bcs someone on internet said its healthy... well, while its inhuman, u cant lock all of those retards behind bars... i would shoot them, but there are laws against it as well... so i cant do anything to help them... just leave mother nature to get rid of weaker (dumb) ones as time goes by...
edit2: still leaves the problem of spreading those diseases among other children... french guys are doin good work when it comes to this... in our country, vaccinating is common and i dont see this new trend to grow soon... hopefully...
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ModeratorI'll be offtopic for a short moment then return to the topic at hand. Regarding "religion starts wars," it's more appropriate to say "conflicting ideologies causes wars." Whether religious, political, based on some sort of feud regarding materialistic reasons, etc., many wars have started due to conflicting ideologies of different people/cultures. Case in point the Crusade wars. Also, keep in mind that forcing a new ideology on the masses also sparks huge problems, e.g. being when Communism was introduced to Russia. Not everyone liked the idea, but unfortunately for those people Stalin had a rather "easy" way to deal with them.
Returning to the topic, I agree about the poor information part leading to many people not seeking vaccinations. Information that is valid and legit is our most powerful weapon to educating the masses regarding things like vaccinations so that people don't scurry away from bad rumors like "vaccines cause autism."
"Dont fear failure. Not failure, but low aim, is the crime. In great attempts, it is glorious even to fail."
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PlatinumI can honestly get mad over people failing to understand the importance. I don't care if you think you probably won't get the disease, if you spread it a lot of people can get very ill just because you failed to understand a simple risk. There is literally no reason not to vaccinate yourself. For god sake, why would you risk something so dangerous?
As said by others, it's often a shortage of knowledge about the subject. If you have a limited network of sources providing the information, and one of them says that Vaccines can cause autism you are prone to believe it. It's rather sad really.
If anyone is looking for more information, this is the journal article that originally made the link of vaccines to autism. Vaccines & autism
Long story short: Paper was partially retracted, then fully retracted, then Dr. Wakefield lost his medical license, Wakefield is in no small part responsible for the deaths of thousands (and more in the future) of people due to the spread of mis-information.
I loosely do research in the area of vaccines (specifically therapeutic - cancer vaccines). The biggest issue is that sometimes the additives or preservatives can cause (usually very minor) side effects. Vaccines are continually improved and when robust and peer-reveiwed research reveals an unforseen problem, it is fixed. For example, Pluserix and Immravax were removed because of a higher risk of side effects (not autism though) than other alternatives.
It's really sad to know that it took the deaths of innocent children to finally get these dumbass ANTI-VAC parents to re-evaluate their stance. I'm all for freedom (and by relation, the freedom to be stupid and not vaccinate your kids), but in that case, I'll exercise my freedom to tell them to keep the **** away from me.
EDIT - Polio was eradicated from India last year... like seriously... this is because vaccines exist! I wish ignorant people would just think logically sometimes.
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DiamondIn theory, as long as the environment of the non-vacc person is vaccinated, then the person who was not vaccinated actually took lower risk. The non-vacc person actually getting the disease from someone else is 0, since they are all vaccinated. Vaccinated people obviously have no risk of getting the disease. Vaccination inherently contain a risk, but this risk is lower than the disease's risk. So, basically the non-vacc person took 0 risk, while those who got vaccinated took the risk of the vaccination.
The problem begins when there are more non-vacc people together. Basically, not getting vaccinated is just very selfish, and it getting wide-spread can be dangerous.
I think that the way Australia wants to go about the anti-vaccination movement is great. Vaccination is mandatory if you want government benefits, and you can only opt out if you have legitimate health issues. No more *insert arbitrary belief or reason why vaccination is bad* bs. It's been proven to be good. It's been beaten into the ground as a fact, and if you don't believe it, well good luck disproving 200 years worth of scientific research.
Tho, it might be something good to sustain on the basis that it's natural selection. Also watching those sods dying of illnesses which are easily prevented. There is a certain amount of entertainment value, I concede
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ModeratorSadly it also affects innocent children... That's also my main problem with it but I guess it takes something extreme like the deaths of children to change the mind of people.
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Platinumim lazy as fuck to get mine, kay? but not lazy enough to post this.
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The short answer is conspiracy theories. The slightly longer answer is people get worked up over potential side effects more than the disease and the drug companies aren't really doing anything to make them seem better.
Now there are some more complex issues such as giving the HPV shot to people under the age of consent without their parent's knowledge or permission, but that's not the typical case.
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PlatinumIf I knew somebody that refuses to vaccinate himself, I'd stop knowing him / her. There was an incident that a 5-year old died due to some disease that he was carrying ALL THE TIME SINCE HIS BIRTH because parents refused to have a standard baby illness check and never brought him to the doctor. Educated people. We all are stupid in some way, but some forms of stupidity are just dangerous to the specie.