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Is ADR Nami viable like Lulu?

  • #21

    Going any unorthodox ad is pretty dumb most of the time.

    BUT, what is fun and viable to some degree is bruiser/on-hit lulu, this is not the same as AD.

    Getting things like a trinity, wit's end and more tanky/hybrid items like that will really both put yourself in a bully role as toplaner as lulu, and because lulu have SO MUCH UTILITY, she holds a strong presence in teamfights. By kiting around with Q and W at right times will both do plenty of damage on them, they will also be really annoyed by the slows/ulti/shields/etc that she puts out, if you play it right, it's plenty viable.

  • #22

    Quote from Licorice »

    Going any unorthodox ad is pretty dumb most of the time.

    BUT, what is fun and viable to some degree is bruiser/on-hit lulu, this is not the same as AD.

    Getting things like a trinity, wit's end and more tanky/hybrid items like that will really both put yourself in a bully role as toplaner as lulu, and because lulu have SO MUCH UTILITY, she holds a strong presence in teamfights. By kiting around with Q and W at right times will both do plenty of damage on them, they will also be really annoyed by the slows/ulti/shields/etc that she puts out, if you play it right, it's plenty viable.

    Yeah top lane Lulu it's still viable because played top lane she's a Teemo (dear lord forgive me for calling Lulu a Teemo!) that yet also packs a lot CC and utility for teamfights, plus she has a lot of very favourable match-ups. I'm not sure if sending Lulu top is better than other high utility options such as Malphite, Shen, Jayce, Olaf, etc, but definitely top lane is the only other lane where playing Lulu makes sense atm aside from bottom lane support spot.

    Mongol General: Conan! What is best in life?

    Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women.

    Mongol General: That is good! That is good.

    - Conan the Barbarian -

  • #23

    Quote from exacerberus »

    Quote from raikaria »

    [Stuff I won't even bother reading to know it's meaningless]

    Do you know how much gold does cost even the cheapest AS-hybrid-On-hit build for Lulu? Let's see: Stinger (1250 gold) Rageblade (2600), Malady (2035) or Wit's End (2200)... So are you stealing CS from your ADC to get such items? Does on-hit Lulu scale better than Crit ADC builds? Better than Urgot? How can you compare CS stealing support Lulu to AP Janna? AP Janna doesn't have a single positive matchup, a single negative matchup/counter, she's super-annyoing to deal with and strong in teamfights (because of her broken AoE CC barrage), but she's played mid, because she needs tons of farm to get stuff like Raba + Void + DFG + Lichbane + GA, you can't play AP Janna support, you will never get that much farmed. Even assuming you were effectively talking about mid Lulu and not support Lulu, then raw AP Lulu is not that viable any more since her ratios were harshly nerfed because at release she was destroying almost anyone in any position (jungle included); AS-on-hit-hybrid Lulu falls off lategame; AD Lulu is garbage.

    In short (sorry I'm trying to watch IEM Katowice): playing AS-on-hit lane bully Lulu may give you the upper hand earlygame in the laning phase, but lategame  and in teamfights you can't even compete with the enemy Carry + Support combo because their support got auras and actives to help his/her very farmed ADC, who incidentally wasn't denied CS by a dumb selfish support stealing gold to get some garbage than falls off very hard lategame.

    Who said I'm playing botlane Lulu when I go on-hit? I specifically compare her to Teemo for a reason...

    Toplane. Not bot. Very few toplaners can fight with Lulu, due to her constant ranged harass, escape potential, and gank supplements. Not to mention Lulu is pretty much ungankable.

    Where did I say you'd play On-Hit Lulu botlane? Don't fabricate something I never said to invalidate what I say please. Toplane Lulu still has all the potential of support Lulu when it comes to her teamfighting, and then brings extra damage. AP Janna is the same, except bigger sheilds and heal on ult. Same with AP Raka.

    When I'm talking about actual AD Lulu, I mean ADC Lulu, with her own support, which is why I talk about a Lulu/Nunu combo. I then say since Lulu's hard C.C isn't a slow skillshot, there is no point in playing ADC Nami over ADC Lulu.

    And sorry, but if AD Lulu is garbage, so is Ashe, Caitlyn, Varus and Corki. As I stated before, AD Lulu can kite as well as Ashe, is as much of a lane bully as Caitlyn [Glitterlance spam, and her auto attack poke hits harder than anyone but Draven or a Tumbled Vayne], and like Varus/Corki/Cait/Ashe, lacks a [reliable] steroid, outside of a little extra damage.

    Not to mention on top of being a lane bully on par with Cait her kill potential is massive due to her slows and C.C, and dueling her is pretty much impossible.

    Last edited by raikaria: 1/20/2013 9:08:25 AM
  • #24

    Quote from raikaria »

    Quote from exacerberus »

    Quote from raikaria »

    [Stuff I won't even bother reading to know it's meaningless]

    Do you know how much gold does cost even the cheapest AS-hybrid-On-hit build for Lulu? Let's see: Stinger (1250 gold) Rageblade (2600), Malady (2035) or Wit's End (2200)... So are you stealing CS from your ADC to get such items? Does on-hit Lulu scale better than Crit ADC builds? Better than Urgot? How can you compare CS stealing support Lulu to AP Janna? AP Janna doesn't have a single positive matchup, a single negative matchup/counter, she's super-annyoing to deal with and strong in teamfights (because of her broken AoE CC barrage), but she's played mid, because she needs tons of farm to get stuff like Raba + Void + DFG + Lichbane + GA, you can't play AP Janna support, you will never get that much farmed. Even assuming you were effectively talking about mid Lulu and not support Lulu, then raw AP Lulu is not that viable any more since her ratios were harshly nerfed because at release she was destroying almost anyone in any position (jungle included); AS-on-hit-hybrid Lulu falls off lategame; AD Lulu is garbage.

    In short (sorry I'm trying to watch IEM Katowice): playing AS-on-hit lane bully Lulu may give you the upper hand earlygame in the laning phase, but lategame  and in teamfights you can't even compete with the enemy Carry + Support combo because their support got auras and actives to help his/her very farmed ADC, who incidentally wasn't denied CS by a dumb selfish support stealing gold to get some garbage than falls off very hard lategame.

    Who said I'm playing botlane Lulu when I go on-hit?

    Toplane. Not bot. Very few toplaners can fight with Lulu, due to her constant ranged harass, escape potential, and gank supplements. Not to mention Lulu is pretty much ungankable.

    Where did I say you'd play On-Hit Lulu botlane? Don't fabricate something I never said to invalidate what I say please. Toplane Lulu still has all the potential of support Lulu when it comes to her teamfighting, and then brings extra damage. AP Janna is the same, except bigger sheilds and heal on ult. Same with AP Raka.

    When I'm talking about actual AD Lulu, I mean ADC Lulu, with her own support, which is why I talk about a Lulu/Nunu combo. I then say since Lulu's hard C.C isn't a slow skillshot, there is no point in playing ADC Nami over ADC Lulu.

    Sorry for the misunderstanding. Let me rephrase that: ADC Lulu is garbage. Top lane squishy AS-on-hit Lulu is garbage as well. Tanky Top lane tanky Lulu to with Wit's End or Zephyr is viable. In short, what I already said, except I'm not gonna repeat all that stuff once again.

    I do understand that Lulu's AA and Glitterance poke with Nunu's Blood Boil is super-strong in early laning phase, yet my granny with her cane together with Nunu's Blood Boil is strong as well. Have fun coping with hypercarries like Kog or Vayne lategame with you OP ADC Lulu build... but as long as your teammates are fine with that, that's not a problem.

    Mongol General: Conan! What is best in life?

    Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women.

    Mongol General: That is good! That is good.

    - Conan the Barbarian -

  • #25

    Quote from raikaria »

    And sorry, but if AD Lulu is garbage, so is Ashe, Caitlyn, Varus and Corki. As I stated before, AD Lulu can kite as well as Ashe, is as much of a lane bully as Caitlyn Draven or a Tumbled Vayne], and like Varus/Corki/Cait/Ashe, lacks a [reliable] steroid, outside of a little extra damage.

    Not to mention on top of being a lane bully on par with Cait her kill potential is massive due to her slows and C.C, and dueling her is pretty much impossible.

     

    I've been pretty tolerant of the ideas in this thread in general, but this statement is beyond foolish.

    AD Lulu cannot kite as well as Ashe. No. A 2 second slow (AT MAX RANK) on a 7 second cooldown, coupled with an even longer cooldown single-target CC, does not equal a 35% persistent slow. Especially one that can be applied more easily (Volley > Glitterlance for ease of application). Bearing in mind that I'm only reluctantly including Polymorph in this, since it seems unfair to mention Polymorph without Enchanted Crystal Arrow being considered as well.

    AD Lulu also does not bully as hard as Caitlyn. Once again, we're talking about RANGE here - THAT is what makes Caitlyn such a bully, and Lulu has equal range to your bog standard 550 ADC. If a strong hit equalled lane bully in bot lane then Vayne would be kicking Caitlyn out of lane.

    As for Varus or Corki, I can't believe you're even trying to draw those comparisons. It's not a 'little' extra damage - it's 10% extra TRUE damage AND huge armour shred, or a full 15% max health in magic damage as added burst alongside your AoE teamfight root.

    There is not an argument, no breathing space, no judgement call required here. Lulu is not an ADC on par with standard ADCs. No.

    My definition of ELO Hell:-

    "Any point at which ego is greater than ELO."

  • #26

    Quote from jgcvaleroso »

    how about ap-as kass with muramana? i heard somewhere that muramana double procs with nether blade. 

    if what i heard was right, wouldnt it be the same as nami's blessing?

    muramana on kass is really only for proving grounds when ya troll building sure the active works with w and q but watch how quick your mana goes bye bye and you have to buy defence items aswel so you can actually get your auto attacks off without dying ( a standard ryze tank build) plus the time to charge it up weakening your early game and theres nowhere you could really add attack speed to the build and SE would add more damage to all of your spells rather than a muramana probably at best giving you an extra 200 damage which goes down with every auto attack id rather just get lichbane

    if the other team was all ap i maybe see you getting away with it

  • #27

    ad/ap lulu is for TOP LANE WINNING(she wins pretty much every single match-up). you don't play it in bot lane unless you're trolling.

    Last edited by DARKWING: 1/20/2013 10:28:16 AM
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