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Ad Carry Tier list Season 3 discussion

  • #22

    i dont think sivirs winrate is so high because of the reasons explained before.we could more or less say that at platinum level ppl has experience on the carry they pick,wheter its ez,mf or sivir. if we look at winrates for platinum then,sivirs winrate is actually higher. i play sivir,and i dont think shes bad,but i also dont feel like she could be top tier or have such a high winrate when i play her

  • #23

    Seriously, some of the post in this thread gave me cancer.

    Anyway generally Ezreal, Caitlyn and Miss Fortune are in great shape atm. Mind that "generally" is the key word here. Some ADCs (especially those with no dash escapes, like Kog and Twitch) rely a lot on a though front-line and a kickass CCer/peeler to carebear them (usually but not necessarily the support); also many hypercarries need a lot of farm, and this can be difficult to achieve against lane bullies and/or when already behind. This doesn't mean they are inherently bad/unsafe picks or weak, but is generally better to duoqueue with said champions (for instance Vayne can be bullied early, and she works better with some specific supports -Taric, Nunu, Alistar, Sona- and something similar applies to Tristana, who has a good early game, a terrific lategame when full-build and a crappy midgame transition, especially when behind in farm, so she needs to snowball from the lane if possible).

    There are a lot of ADCs in good shape lately, the problem is that when it comes to soloqueue -and, to a way lesser degree, in duoqueue- picking the safest choices is usually a sound idea, simply because you're gonna play with many random people whose brain may already be rotten and infested by worms and parasites having lifelong rave parties.

    Mongol General: Conan! What is best in life?

    Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women.

    Mongol General: That is good! That is good.

    - Conan the Barbarian -

  • #24

    I totally agree with you there. It just seems so difficult these days to get into a SoloQ game and have people actually put together a team that makes sense. SoloQ = Player preference mostly and that makes it waaaaaay more rough. Especially for ADC. I played a game the other day as Cait. The game was probably the worst in m life because the other team had Leona, Xin, and Irelia. It was like .....k what do I do here in this situation. Look at my team and figure out what is going on and why I have no peel to help me. Of course Singed is running after the tanky jungle and so on and so forth. That is the brilliance of SoloQ. So the tier list( we shall call it) is so hard to determine.

  • #25

    Kog is my favorite ADC by far, and I will never touch him in solo q, and hardly even in blind pick. At least in blind he can play with an aggressive support, in solo he needs a babysitter. Give him Nunu, give him (sometimes) Thresh; otherwise, a ranked game will see him massacred.

    P.S.   Anyone try Corki with Muramana? It is pretty solid in my experience, solves many issues and adds big damage. May not be optimal, but when it first maxes out the toggle spikes your damage beyond belief.

  • #26

    Quote from Lezaleas »

    im basing this on soloq and soloq winrates http://www.lolking.net/champions/

    4th tier:Kog(im confused here he had a much higher win rate on s2 and now his w is even better)

    Like it wasn't enough to have Irelia/Nocturne/Olaf/Jax/whatever divers, now Riot added like 5 extra divers that literally oneshot. If you can attack them with Kog, they can jump on you and oneshot. I really don't understand how the hell Riot designs the game if i have easier time playing first 5 games on Caitlyn in ranked than playing my main ADC Kog  in ranked after i played like 120 games or so with him...

    Quote from CaptMo7 »

    Look at my team and figure out what is going on and why I have no peel to help me. Of course Singed is running after the tanky jungle and so on and so forth. That is the brilliance of SoloQ. So the tier list( we shall call it) is so hard to determine.

     Yeah, that too. People just don't understand that if they dive and enemy team dives, Kog in their team is guaranteed to die faster than Cait/EZ in enemy team. But if they focus a bruiser first then Kog survives and helps to kill enemies much faster than that EZ/Cait kills my team.

    Last edited by Ellestar: 1/31/2013 6:22:52 AM
  • #27

    "AD carry tier list" is a huge oversimplification of the role. AD carries can be made or broken by their supports or their opponents. I feel like it'd be more useful to rate matchups rather than attempt to objectively sort AD carries into tiers.

  • #28

    For me Cait, MF and Ez are the top tier ADCs in most situations for solo/duo queue - mainly since they are a pretty much always at least a decent choice even if you'd have to pick early the adc before you know what awaits you on the enemy team / you can be sure of your support.
    E.g. if you know you'll face a Blitz Sivir is a very strong choice usually imho - rendering Blitz much less useful and allowing your support to play a much more dominant role. Even better add an annoying ult like Karth to the enemy team and have some jungler or toplane in your team that would greatly benefit from the attack speed and movement bonus of her ultimate - but she really is situational. Maybe that is among the reason her win rate is so high, since she tends to get picked more often on purpose as a counter.

    A good ADC player for me is proficient with some of those 'almost always' good ADC (Cait, MF, Ez, Corki, Graves) champions and knows as well a few situational ADCs - if he knows these well and the conditions for these champs are met he will be extremtly strong.

    The good part for me about lol is the fact that it is a team game and you cannot properly value a champion on its own.

  • #29

    Quote from KesslerCOIL »

     Twitch: while he has potential, he is easily ganked and has an unreliable attack speed steroid, reliant on poison stacks to deal equal damage to other carries. His Ult is nice though.

    Not sure why you think of twitch this way... his AS steroid is 100% reliable, it always happens when he unstealths. That combined with 850 range piercing AA's he's a teamfighting monster unless enemies spread out and even then just having 850 range is HUGE. As for ganks, you can stealth. The moment a jungler shows up you disappear and waddle back to the tower. Enemy team has unsuccessful gank or they need to bring pinks and even then you have a ranged AoE slow to help escape or at least get out of pink range.  

    Quote from raikaria »

    Draven: I liken Draven to Le Blanc. Horribly strong damage in lane. However, if you survive, he becomes completely useless. Even if he gets fed, he's arguably the worst ADC lategame, because he has to constantly stop attacking and reposition to keep Spinning Axes up, and without them he's an escapeless, short ranged, low damage, no steroid ADC.

    How does he become useless and how does he have no Steroid? At the very least if you NEVER use spinning axes he still has a 40% AS steroid and as for his axes you need to consider for a second what is more damage catching an axe or letting it go.In most cases maintaining 1 axe is more worthwhile then letting it fall if for nothing else to keep your AS up. You throw in AoE hard CC and AoE high damage ultimate and he does very well. He's like the Anivia of ADCs, not very popular but insanely strong all the same.

    Last edited by Drekor: 1/31/2013 2:40:15 PM
  • #30

    Draven might not be the worst late, more the hardest. But because some may fail to execute properly hes the worst for them. Worst overall is really hard to tell, because every carry is good lategame ;)

  • #31

    1: mundow, sona, tarci

    2: wratihs

  • #32

    Tier 1: Draven

    Tier 2: Draven

    Tier 3: Draven

    Draven does it all.

  • #33

    I just love how there is zero mention of Quinn... it's because no one validates her as a legitimate ADC. However! I assure you she's upcoming top-tier/FoTM given her upcoming series of Buffs.

  • #34

    Aka ignore all non-diamond players opinions. Lol

     

  • #35

    Quote from Goodspeed »

    I just love how there is zero mention of Quinn... it's because no one validates her as a legitimate ADC. However! I assure you she's upcoming top-tier/FoTM given her upcoming series of Buffs.


    Not really.

    Sight stun on Vault? OK, that is a buff, but beforehand, using it would make Quinn automatically LOSE any trade because she just gets AA'ed while in transit.

    Some extra flat MS from Hightened Senses? OK, but that'll be 20 MS for most of the game, and only when Harrier is procced. Sivir gets 50 MS for hitting someone at any time. Is Sivir good? In ult the MS is meaningless due to easily surpassing MS caps anyway, and by the time you're actually leveling Hightened Senses, using your ultimate is suicidal anyway.

     

    She'll still be garbage. Quinn is an outright flawed concept. Riot know melee ADC's don't work, yet they make a ranged ADC who's ult makes them a melee ADC, with worse steroids than the existing melee carries [Highlander, Double Strike + Wuju Style, Bloodlust, Passive Crit and Undying Rage, and Fiora's Riposte and 120% steroid makes Quinn's 80% look like a joke.] The only way Quinn will be viable is if she gets utterly broken numbers on QWE, or she gets reworked. The concept itself is broken.

     

    Anywho:

    God Teir: MF - Top 3 early, Goddess of Midgame, Strong lategame still. If shut out only needs flat AD and a LW to be useful. Winrates speak for themselves.

    Teir 1: Caitlyn, Varus, Graves

    Caitlyn is dominant in lane, and safe [Although weak and low damage] lategame.

    Varus is decent at all stages of the game, but brings his Ultimate

    Graves is still strong. He's just... a weaker Miss Fortune

    Teir 2: Ezreal, Draven, Ashe, Twitch, Tristana, Kog'Maw, Vayne

    Draven has earlygame locked down, but the rest... not so hot unless he gets fed

    Ezreal is decent at all stages of the game, flexible and safe.

    Ashe has Enchanted Crystal Arrow and infinite kite

    The four hypercarries are the four hypercarries, and honestly all have pros and cons which make them about equal.

    Teir 3: Corki

    Corki is just bad right now in general, although the Muramana changes make him a bit better.

    Teir 4: Sivir

    Sivir is in an even worse spot than Corki. Her ult is lacklustre, her damage is bad past Lv 3, she got kicked in the teeth with Shiv taking her pushing niche, and she loses to pretty much everyone. There is currently no reason to pick Sivir

    Teir Garbage: Quinn

    Quinn is outright flawed in concept.

    Not even an ADC: Urgot.

  • #36

    Hardly but okay :) I consistently go 20+/5ish/10+ in blind and 15+/5ish/10+ in Gold III.

    In Gold III I have a KDA of 6:1... people just don't know how to play her properly still.

  • #37

    Wow what's with everyone hating on Sivir, it's like some people said already, she's got a high rate, yet low usage of play, which means the people who play her are pretty good with her, just like how Rumble was.

    Ever since the introduction of Thresh, we've seen the rise of usage of AD Carries such as Varus since they complement one another as Thresh adds CC and helps provide a means of Escape.

    We can agree that MF is 'God' Tier right now, but she's only used for good early game & being an Ulti bot later in the game (Stacking AD & a BC) and other sources of AoE with the team comp.

    Ezreal's win rate fell simply because of a slew of nerfs and him being way too overused (to the point I couldn't play him anymore), but he's still a very safe pick, always safe throughout the game (but not optimal for damage). Caitlyn as well, good early, safe throughout the game, but lacklaster late game & also when Nunu got nerfed (Blood Boil & Harassing Combo), she also fell in win rates because of it.

    Corki is in an Interesting spot now that he reduced buffs shorten his ultimate cast time & charges for his 'Big' One and Muramana's physical damage change but I'd say give it more time till we see him again (perhaps maybe how Kha'zix was like when he came out in S2 & but S3 he made his debut).

    Tristana, Vayne & Kog'maw suffer right now in this meta simply because it's focused on early game agression and dive-based & AoE comps are still strong, but Vayne has seen more usage thank's to mana buffs & base attack speed buffs, and the same with Tristana since she received a base attack speed buff, but because of the meta, they need an ADC that is good at all stages of the game and Tristana having a reasonable bad mid game can be the reason.

    Draven, Twitch & Graves are great snowballers but they suffer from pros & cons, and most of the time people prefer to pick MF, Caitlyn & Ezreal than other ADC's.

    Ashe is a niche pick, but risky to use compared to other ADC's, Urgot though he isn't an ADC (but an Anti-Carry), he isn't used anymore due to nerfs of CD's and also his Q range from 1500 to 1200. Quinn just sucks right now compared to other carries (even though she's fun to play), and the latest buffs won't really help her.

  • #38

    So I've been playing ashe and ez a bit when I have to adc. Wow just checked and Ezreals play rate is SO much higher then his win  rate. He's fun to play and I'm  a bit surprised by his win rate being so low. Sivir has a high win rate sorry to break it to you all who love to hate on her. Clearly there is SOME way to use her effectively people haven't caught on yet. I love ashe ult and Ez ult a lot but I feel like I should pick up MF or Varus or Draven if anyone since they seem to be so strong and they do more early damage. 

    Really hate seeing so much MF now though because even as someone who rarely goes adc she's just so easy to do well with. Just don't spam your mana too much and have good warding in case of ganks and you auto-win every trade. Whenever I support MF I know trades are in our favor-but really she's a low skill cap champion and I wish she was less rewarding as such. 

  • #39

    IMO the reason MF is so strong in soloq right now is that the mechanics required to play her are incredibly low. Draven is a very similar champion that's probably stronger when played to full potential, but the mechanics required to play him are through the roof.
    While during teamfights Draven has to micro his axes and kite with his blood rush MS buff, MF just finds a place to sit and presses R. Also, in soloq a lot of people sit in MF ultimates.

    Last edited by sushimkr: 4/26/2013 8:13:54 PM

    I can't draw, but I tried

     

  • #40

    I agree with most of the stuff here, mf is great, quinn sux etc. However I disagree with the high placement of Graves and Caitlyn.

    Graves have had a steady stream of nerfs since he came out. That hurt him a lot, and the meta hurt him further. Graves' burst isn't up to snuff anymore, especially with the popularity of AD assassins. Pen stacking is back in, weakening his passive. His dash can sometimes be useful, but his range is small enough where he needs to get within gap-closer range to attack properly anymore.

    Cait, is more that I don't like her, and she's harder to play than people give her credit for. She's safe, but her damage and utility are low enough that you need to be doing damage pretty much all the time in teamfights to justify the pick, which kind of defeats the purpose of playing safe. Unless your support can boost your damage, she's not fun or particularly useful in a teamfight, especially if the enemy peelers/frontline are good. All of that makes her a situational pick, imo.

  • #41

    On the topic of Quinn: Forget the ulti. Just think of her passive steroid and her W proc on it. Throw in a blind, and a protect comp can make something of her. The blind stops AD assassins long enough for her to be peeled, and E has a decent peel in and of itself. Now, consider the ult less as a damage steroid. Use it to pick a straggler at the end of a fight or roam and annihilate a careless mid laner or even the dragon. Split push turrets for 20 seconds and fly away laughing. I know everyone hates Quinn, but if you get past her range issue she is a terror. Paired with an aggressive support (ie Volibear) she can bully Draven out of lane and be totally safe whilst doing it thanks to W. Ult just to trade or to play an assassin, she can shut down hypercarries with it. You have heard this before, I get it. But Quinn is arguably the best skirmisher of the ADC's (vayne), and has pretty incredible steroids in a teamfight IF PROTECTED (soloq hates her), more so with the mechanics repaired on her passive.

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