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Where do I go from here?

  • #1

    Hello, I am currently a lowish ELO player (1050 atm) 

    I am able to play any role with success, in order of skill I can play Support best. However, support can't do enough on its own (compared to the other roles) 

    But complaining isn't going to help me for anything.

    What I want to know is what can I do to improve myself. I don't have interest in 5's teams at the time, soloqueue is simply too inconsistent for improvement, and normals are usually jokes. I am decent at last hitting, which I have been practicing with. What can I do to better myself?

    Last edited by MEOW1337KITTEH: 11/6/2012 9:53:32 AM
  • #2

    Pick a champion or two, and practice them until you become really good. Pick something that can control the game - champions like Amumu, Galio, Shen or Anivia. Even supports can single-handedly turn the game around. I've had games where one good Blitzcrank pull enabled my team (or the enemy team :<) to quickly burst down one of the carries, resulting in turrets or even Baron. I've had games where a good Sona or Leona ult turned an important teamfight completely around - again, giving us the chance to push the advantage or get back up from a bad start.

    If you can learn a champion like this real well, your ELO should rise after some games. But you must remain persistent. There will be games, sometimes a few in a row, in which you get 4 feeders and can't carry on your own. Sometimes even if you get one person who can't play that good, you will still be able to win the game.

    Edit: also, if support is your best role, try finding a good ADC and team up with them. Use some sort of voice communication and practice until you get to know each other well. Enough practice in an ADC/Support setting may allow to completely dominate your lane in solo queue. You can also try teaming up with a good, gank oriented jungler. Together with one of my friends, we won quite a few consecutive games in solo queue just because we kept feeding our ADC kills. A high CC support plus a Maokai jungler often results in a kill. Up till around 1.5k ELO, all you need is a pink ward bot.

    Last edited by Firalus: 11/6/2012 10:09:21 AM
  • #3

    Where can I practice with them? I don't want to learn in ranked, but I don't learn anything in normals because of the lack of anyone caring. 

    In terms of general gameplay mechanics, what should I be starting to practice towards? What is the most important aspect to be proficient at that can turn a game around (or prevent a turnaround from happening to begin with)

  • #4

    While I am not a high ELO player and I may be wrong, I would say that positioning and team communication are important aspects when it comes to turning games around. The simplest method would probably be to set up traps. A good trap with Sona's ultimate can be devastating for the enemy team.

    Depending on a champion, there are many ways. When it comes to forementioned Anivia, you have to master the proper uses of your wall - as an initiation tool, a disengagement tool or probably the most obvious use of splitting the enemy team in a teamfight.

    Preventing turnarounds is a more complex thing I would say, as it requires your team to cooperate, which rarely happens on solo queue. You must avoid getting trapped or ganked. As a support you may try to place many wards around the map, but it requires you to spend a great deal of gold on wards. You may also get killed when you place wards. While it may seem that a support doesn't have so much of an impact in a game, in low-medium ELO solo queue there would rarely be other people ready to peel the enemies off your AD carry, which makes a lot of difference in teamfights, especially for ADCs like Kog'maw.

    As for practice - there is no other place than ranked or normals. Dominion can prove useful for learning certain champion mechanics, but it will not make you improve your knowledge of general SR mechanics. You can try improving by casually playing different roles. Improving yourself in one role often leads to improvement in other roles. I, for example, greatly improved (yes, I overuse that word) my map awareness when playing almost exclusively mid lane, which in turn led to being better as a jungler. Practicing AD carries led to some improvement in farming up and controlling the flow of my lane. Playing top lane allowed me to learn certain counter mechanics which can apply on some mid champions. It also allowed me to adapt a more aggressive playstyle, with more emphasis on outtrading my opponent than most mid players that I encounter. Playing all types of champions also helped me better understand my role in teamfights.

  • #5

    You can raise elo if you are support if you just keep track of a lot of things like baron dragon and buff timers. Also, of you make a good call for baron for example you can win the game that way. And wards they are SO important, if you can catch the enemy ad carry off guard then you can push a lot of turrets or get baron. If you get pink wards or an oracles you can get baron control and lure the enemies. Ofcourse this gets more difficult if you raise elo but it should be fine until like 1400 elo. Just be your teams brain and you win.

    Clunse art OP

  • #6

    Ranked 3s are where its at I think..... less soloqueue drama and you can usually find two friends.

    Of course thats just me.  You might find the transition difficult.  I definitely did, on SR I play squishy mids or supps, and theres not a deal of call for either of those in the treeline.  

  • #7

    If you want to master support, you can try to practice in a few things: 

    1. Warding: When and Where

    Warding should depend on where the opponent's jungler begins, on the side you're on and on the opponent bot lane: 
    Ex. You're on Blue Side, against Mao Jungle, Blitz Graves bot lane
    - Blue buff is close to bot lane, so generally, you'll want to watch out for an early gank. You shouldnt need a ward for that though, just play "living ward" near dragon after the first wave and if you see mao coming out of the pit, you run. Besides that, there's the possibility of a lane gank, so probably ward the opponents brush.
    -It's a Blitzcrank, so you want to ward their brush. Watch his items, did he start Boots+2 wards or Faerie Charm + 3 sights + 2 pots, Faerie Charm + Vision + 2 Sight, and keep watching the amount of wards.
    -Try to confirm whether your lane is gonna push or not so you know in which brush you should ward. 
    - Starting Vision Wards may ruin strategies for the opponent, so that's also an option.
    - Know where to ward into midlane - Dragon and Baron Vision Warded and the rest can be sighted
    - Know when to buy Oracles

    2. Adjusting Playstyle to lane: 

    When choosing a support champ, you'd like to synergize with your ADC (And the rest of the team, but first this).
    Here's a link for guidelines: http://i.imgur.com/boqQE.jpg

    You can also counterpick their support/ADC -> No Sustain? -- Play a poke support, like Sona

    Same game: 

    -Watch their items and Summoner Spells - Blitz no pots? Poke him out of the lane. 
    -When one person is poked out of the lane, zone the other champ.

    3. Map Awareness:

    - If you're bored, you can just try to trace the opponents jungle and tell your team about your thoughts. 7.20 with mid MIA? Getting blue buff, Saw the jungler walk away from top to mid? Tell your mid. 

    4. Game Control: 

    - Know when to take Dragon, Baron.
    - If you think it's safe, you can ward the opponents red/blue buff (depending on the side you're on).

    That's all for now, but I bet that there are a lot of things you can always improve. One of the most important things is paying attention for the rest of the team to "carry" as a support 

  • #8

    Supports are just as important in team fights as other characters. Sona ult timing? Leona's abilities? Taric's stun? Your ammu can mess up his ult and you can still win the team fight if do a good job.

  • #9

    Well, I know that support is important, and raising my elo is obviously a goal, but what I really need is something to consciously improve on. 

    As in what sets the gap between a 1400 elo and a 1000 elo player? (Not only support though) I feel like I am stuck against a wall, and I don't know how to get through or over it. I feel like all I need is the first foothold and then I will be able to pull myself up. 

  • #10

    The gap is in a lot of things. Some basic ideas to practice are farming, positioning, and timing.

    Pick a mid or jungle champ. They have the most effect on games without being fed, so they're your best bet for solo carrying yourself to higher elo.

    I play mid, because I'm a terrible jungler, so I'll talk from that perspective. Find a champion you enjoy, who is also someone who can carry. I like AP Nidalee, but she's hard to carry a game with, so I play more Veigar/Evelynn. Now, practice farming in a bot match. Consistently get 60+ CS by ten minutes. Then work for 80. 

    Work on knowing when things are going to happen. When the jungler will gank your lane, when the jungler will gank other lane, when your jungler will gank your lane, when your jungler will gank other lanes. Coordinate with all of these events. If their jungler is going to be in your lane soon, don't push, play safe. Waste his time. If your jungler is coming to gank your opponent, bait them into pushing or diving you. Assist your jungler in ganks on bot. This gets your whole team assists and kills.

    In team fights, know when to engage. In solo queue, if your top laner decides to engage at a bad time (like when the enemy is ten kills up and has baron), and the rest of your team follows, assist from a safe distance and let them die, because you can still turtle a turret if you're alive, and you won't do anything dead. If the enemy is pushing mid, and you're caught out by dragon, do not try to rush right in front of them to the safety of the turret. Recall or go the long way around. 

    Wards are amazing, especially for assassins and burst champions like Eve and Veigar. I had a game as Veigar recently where I was the only one with more kills than deaths, and we still won. I got my team to help me ward the enemy jungle, and I would walk around in it killing them while they farmed and got buffs. We were still behind by about 10 kills, but it didn't matter, because they couldn't leave their base without dying and they knew it. My team farmed, we got baron, we came back and won the game. 

    Check guides like those on Lolpro. They may not always be the best, but in general they are stronger than just buying what you think might work. 

    Your laning phase can be incredibly influential to the game. Roam. Get your other lanes fed. That's the secret to carrying games, don't be the only one with gold. But at the same time, if you are the only one with gold, GA is your pagan idol. Offer blood sacrifices to it. Appease it. Worship it. Its OP.

    Playing safe is the number one key to carrying games. I can't recall which pro said exactly what, but it was something to the effect of, "The game isn't about who has the most kills. Its about who has the fewest deaths." If you can go an entire game without dying, you're in good shape. Champions with great escapes or who can just obliterate ganks are great. 

    Mechanical skills come with practice. Learn in normals. Normals are like playing 1v9. You have to beat everyone, and its hard. Practice winning your lane first. Then win the other lanes. Its one of my favorite jokes to shout in /all. "I win ALL TEH LANEZ!" Because that's how you win a team game. Even if you don't necessarily have all the kills, if everyone on your team has a 2k gold advantage, its hard to lose.

    So in other words, try to get your team fed, and when they screw it up, carry them because your champ is OP.

    Long post is long.

    Last edited by Mockstar: 12/5/2012 12:18:44 PM

    Preparing for the climb is scary.

  • #11

    Playing safe is the number one key to carrying games. I can't recall which pro said exactly what, but it was something to the effect of, "The game isn't about who has the most kills. Its about who has the fewest deaths." If you can go an entire game without dying, you're in good shape. Champions with great escapes or who can just obliterate ganks are great.

    Why that actually? I read that sentences a few times already...

     

    I would assume it isn't 1 death vs 1 kill but rahter that kills aren't always secured but you put yourself at a risk when going for them, thus you might killed in the process, maybe even without getting a kill while staying outside of the fight would have saved you one death FOR SURE.

     

  • #12

    Quote from MEOW1337KITTEH »

    Hello, I am currently a lowish ELO player (1050 atm) 

    I am able to play any role with success, in order of skill I can play Support best. However, support can't do enough on its own (compared to the other roles) 

    But complaining isn't going to help me for anything.

    What I want to know is what can I do to improve myself. I don't have interest in 5's teams at the time, soloqueue is simply too inconsistent for improvement, and normals are usually jokes. I am decent at last hitting, which I have been practicing with. What can I do to better myself?


    In this case, if support is your main, I can suggest learning Zyra.

     

    Zyra, aside from being a support with both protection and offense potential, has the option, if she's doing well, of actually transitioning into an AP build, and Zyra's AP damage is very high with a couple of AP items, especially as most of her damage is AoE, and her plant's damage scales with AP as well. Zyra can enable your lane to win easily, especiall;y with characters like Miss Fortune and Draven's high damage output. If they're too bad to carry themselves, you'll be fed enough off assists, and maybe kills, to get some AP and do it yourself.

     

    Not to mention you can actually play Zyra AP, making her a good early pick, as she can multitask.

     

    Zyra I find most effective when you reach the stage with her where you can smartcast her whole kit, it allows you to put down seeds as your skills travel, which makes it a lot harder to forsee it coming.

    Last edited by raikaria: 1/25/2013 8:40:51 AM
  • #13

    Quote from Basinator »

    Playing safe is the number one key to carrying games. I can't recall which pro said exactly what, but it was something to the effect of, "The game isn't about who has the most kills. Its about who has the fewest deaths." If you can go an entire game without dying, you're in good shape. Champions with great escapes or who can just obliterate ganks are great.

    Why that actually? I read that sentences a few times already...

     

    I would assume it isn't 1 death vs 1 kill but rahter that kills aren't always secured but you put yourself at a risk when going for them, thus you might killed in the process, maybe even without getting a kill while staying outside of the fight would have saved you one death FOR SURE.

     

    The reason (or one of the main reasons in my opinion) is that even if you trade 1v1, by dieing you prevent yourself from farming on, in effect losing out on gold and xp. While the kill trade might help you win your lane because he loses more than you did maybe, IT DOES SET YOU BACK when looking at both teams at a whole. If you die top while their bot lane is farming, their bot lane is gaining more gold/xp than you are most likely. Thus you will have a harder time carrying later.

  • #14

    Wait what? This doesn't make sense to me.

     

    If I die and my enemy does the same..ok, it puts me back - but it puts him back as well? 0 = 0 is the same as -1 = -1...

  • #15

    well, yes, but if YOU want to carry, you do not only have to be better than your lane opponent but you better than the whole team.. you dont fight 1v1 all game, you have to be overpowering in teamfights as well which is less likely if you died alot.

    Last edited by ScM_5argan: 1/25/2013 10:15:15 AM
  • #16

    Quote from Basinator »

    Playing safe is the number one key to carrying games. I can't recall which pro said exactly what, but it was something to the effect of, "The game isn't about who has the most kills. Its about who has the fewest deaths." If you can go an entire game without dying, you're in good shape. Champions with great escapes or who can just obliterate ganks are great.

    Wait what? This doesn't make sense to me.

     

    If I die and my enemy does the same..ok, it puts me back - but it puts him back as well? 0 = 0 is the same as -1 = -1...


     

     Well, what if you are winning in farm? Say you have 20 creep up, that's like 200 gold. Now that 200 gold makes you go from 1200 to 1400 so you can get your brutilizer or whatever and than you do that "even" trade, the extra gold isn't going to get you over the threshold for your item and it WILL make him get over the threshold. As well as, in this case you are clearly bullying him and farming better so if you are both out of lane you are hurting yourself more. Now same argument, if you are losing in creep than a 1v1 even trade is worth it.

    Last edited by numn_nutts: 1/25/2013 10:28:30 AM
  • #17

    Quote from numn_nutts »

    Quote from Basinator »

    Playing safe is the number one key to carrying games. I can't recall which pro said exactly what, but it was something to the effect of, "The game isn't about who has the most kills. Its about who has the fewest deaths." If you can go an entire game without dying, you're in good shape. Champions with great escapes or who can just obliterate ganks are great.

    Wait what? This doesn't make sense to me.

     

    If I die and my enemy does the same..ok, it puts me back - but it puts him back as well? 0 = 0 is the same as -1 = -1...


     

     Well, what if you are winning in farm? Say you have 20 creep up, that's like 200 gold. Now that 200 gold makes you go from 1200 to 1400 so you can get your brutilizer or whatever and than you do that "even" trade, the extra gold isn't going to get you over the threshold for your item and it WILL make him get over the threshold. As well as, in this case you are clearly bullying him and farming better so if you are both out of lane you are hurting yourself more. Now same argument, if you are losing in creep than a 1v1 even trade is worth it.


    Yeah that was kinda the point I was trying to make :D thanks for putting it into (probably) better understandable words

  • #18

    Still disagreeing here. Originially it was a very, very general statement but you make it soooo situational in your scenarios because the whole situation could be reversed easily when you are the one who would enter the threshold. This puts me to the conclusion it is mostlikely not about the results but about the mentality instead so you don't get too greedy and dieing in the process.

  • #19

    Quote from Basinator »

    Still disagreeing here. Originially it was a very, very general statement but you make it soooo situational in your scenarios because the whole situation could be reversed easily when you are the one who would enter the threshold. This puts me to the conclusion it is mostlikely not about the results but about the mentality instead so you don't get too greedy and dieing in the process.

    This game is all about situational analysis. If you buy the same items every game no matter what your opponent is doing or who you're up against, that's why a decent guide tells you about all types of enemies. And in my post I was originally saying that there are times it is better for you to trade and times its worse and proceeded to cite some examples. I feel like disregarding the advice trading is NEVER good just because there are times and situations that make it a good idea seems about as radical as the word NEVER. *see what I did there :)

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