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Ranked seems flawed...

  • #1

    Does anyone else seem to think that your "elo" isn't a true reflection of your own ability but more a reflection on the other four people you get stuck with?

    Also seems the lower you fall, the easier it is to fall lower (lower elo seems to bring less people that care, more trolls, more ragers, more afkers) causing you to fall lower and lower.

    Does anyone agree?

  • #2

    http://www.reignofgaming.net/blogs/a-different-view/vvinrar/22769-is-the-elo-rating-system-accurate#c88

    Is a great article on this subject o3o

  • #3

    NO. People should stop thinking that they are better than other players. If you play at 800 elo and get fed, does this mean that you shall be 1500? NO, you're just owning bad players, and if you are really fed and still can't carry against that bad players, you don't deserve any more elo than you have.

    Let's set that your real level is actually way over your elo:
    -You have 4 bad players as teammates who are diffcult to carry.
    BUT
    -You play against 5 bad players as bad as your teammates.

    Then, if you're 1 good and 4 bad versus 5 bad... ARE YOU REALLY THAT GOOD?

    To sum up, your ego is always above your elo, and this HAS to change if you really want to learn stuff.

    Finally, remember that the only common factor in your all your defeats, the only guy who played in all your lost games, was YOU.

  • #4

    Just ask yourself why there are ppl on 2,2k elo with 5 accounts who never ever talked about getting stucked at any elo for even 1 second.. and improve.

    Check my stream

    Climbing Diamond divisions atm :3 (or not ._.)

    http://de.twitch.tv/gr33n3eu

  • #5

    My point is its an uphill battle with 4 people on your shoulders. (Sometimes it's only 3 cause of afkers) sometimes even harder cause someone has troll picked.

    I just don't understand how 1 person can make up for the mistakes of 4.

  • #6

    Quote from Arannan »

    NO. People should stop thinking that they are better than other players. If you play at 800 elo and get fed, does this mean that you shall be 1500? NO, you're just owning bad players, and if you are really fed and still can't carry against that bad players, you don't deserve any more elo than you have.

    Let's set that your real level is actually way over your elo:
    -You have 4 bad players as teammates who are diffcult to carry.
    BUT
    -You play against 5 bad players as bad as your teammates.

    Then, if you're 1 good and 4 bad versus 5 bad... ARE YOU REALLY THAT GOOD?

    To sum up, your ego is always above your elo, and this HAS to change if you really want to learn stuff.

    Finally, remember that the only common factor in your all your defeats, the only guy who played in all your lost games, was YOU.

    buddy, I can't say that this made any sense.  You basically said that he should be a higher elo than he is if he can carry against 5 players with 4 on his own team.

  • #7

    Quote from Crayonsnacha »

    Quote from Arannan »

    NO. People should stop thinking that they are better than other players. If you play at 800 elo and get fed, does this mean that you shall be 1500? NO, you're just owning bad players, and if you are really fed and still can't carry against that bad players, you don't deserve any more elo than you have.

    Let's set that your real level is actually way over your elo:
    -You have 4 bad players as teammates who are diffcult to carry.
    BUT
    -You play against 5 bad players as bad as your teammates.

    Then, if you're 1 good and 4 bad versus 5 bad... ARE YOU REALLY THAT GOOD?

    To sum up, your ego is always above your elo, and this HAS to change if you really want to learn stuff.

    Finally, remember that the only common factor in your all your defeats, the only guy who played in all your lost games, was YOU.

    buddy, I can't say that this made any sense.  You basically said that he should be a higher elo than he is if he can carry against 5 players with 4 on his own team.


    And you are reading what you want into what he is sayng.  Elo Hell is when you Ego eexcedes you skills.  Starting wondering why you won games instead of why you lost them.

    A sig I guess.

  • #8

    If someone can tell me how one person can make up for the mistakes of four people I think I could cope better with this. It just doesn't seem possible.

  • #9

    Alright, ready for an oversimplification?

    Assume everyone on both teams, except you, makes 10 errors per game.  and you, in all your godly pwningness, make none.  your team makes 40 erros, and their team makes 50.  You should win this game, unless you don't capitalize on the 10 extra mistakes they made, in which case you did make the mistake of not capitalizing on those mistakes.

    Granted you can't capitalize on every mistake because you are one person, but even making a huge play after 1 mistake can swing the game.  But I told you it was an oversimplification.

    A sig I guess.

  • #10

    Quote from Ultraviolenceuk »

    My point is its an uphill battle with 4 people on your shoulders. (Sometimes it's only 3 cause of afkers) sometimes even harder cause someone has troll picked.

    I just don't understand how 1 person can make up for the mistakes of 4.

    becouse as they already said you'll always have 4 "bad" players in your team and 5 in the enemy team, i you're better you'll eventually get a higher elo rating simply becouse you'll always have a good %win ratio(since you'd be the good one with the 9 baddies)

    more bad players=easier to carry, it's not even complicated

    and if you suppose there's a leaver than it's just a personal gain in terms of elo:for every 4 leavers on your team there will be 5 leavers in the enemy team(basically a free win every 9 total leavers if we consider a 5vs4 a free win)

    I really don't manage to understand how the lol community can still believe such a retarded thing as elo hell, yeah there are high fluctuation of elo(even a +-200 is likely to happen)but the more you fall down the more you're likely to raise

    there are thousands of high elo players that made smurfs after smurfs and didn't have problems climbing back, also a nice empiric example was given by some players that got placed at the start of season 3 at 0 elo and were occasionally posting their stats on reddit where you could     
    see their retarded winratios(until they approached an elo similar to their level, where they would eventually stop)

    i think it's a fun fact that in the lol community about 90% of the playerbase think to deserve an higher rating compared to the one they have

  • #11

    Quote from Ultraviolenceuk »

    If someone can tell me how one person can make up for the mistakes of four people I think I could cope better with this. It just doesn't seem possible.

    I'm no pro, but pro shit doesn't work at 1200 elo, it doesn't even work always at 1500 elo. 

    PUNISH mistakes.  Don't just say, we made mistakes they made mistakes.  See the mistake, and destroy the opponent for it. 
    -They take top tower with 4?  ignore it, ping inner turret for your teammates to defend, solo dragon.  Then if they haven't responded, take bot turret to.  rub it in.
    -One person the enemy team is fed?  ward, catch them out of position with you and your duo partner.  get on skype with them.
    -pay close attention to your comp and their comp during team select.  Games are won and lost in team select.  picking last is the best thing -you can do climb elo, granted its luck, but its the attitude shift from, I want to pick first cause then I get mid, to "I want to pick last to fill in the holes in my team comp or counter pick a particular character that ouwl otherwise be an issue."
    -If your team won't follow you, pick the ally with the best(albeit bad, but less bad) play patterns.  Stick with them, amplify them.  a spear head is only good if it has a sturdy grip.

     

    A sig I guess.

  • #12

    Quote from Ultraviolenceuk »

    If someone can tell me how one person can make up for the mistakes of four people I think I could cope better with this. It just doesn't seem possible.

    You don't have to make up for the mistakes of four people. This is the incorrect mentality to have and it's why so many people are stagnant at their elo. You are in an elo where you get matched with nine players of similar elo. You know what that means? You have four bad players on your team and they have five on theirs. This means that you don't *have* to make up for the mistakes; the enemy team will statistically be making more.

    If the enemy team doesn't make more mistakes than your team, it either means they are better than your team and deserve to win, or....*much more likely,*....you're making just as many mistakes as everyone else.

    If you actually make no mistakes in your games, or play at a much higher level than your elo, you will obviously rise as you will punish mistakes and make better calls.

  • #13

    well there are single games where you just cant win because the 4 teammates are really bad / leaver / afk / trolls. that is true. but if you play more games you should notice this:

    assuming you are really better than the elo you are at , there are 4 people on you team that can be bad / troll / leaver afk and stuff, while on the other team there are 5 people who can be troll / leave / bad /afk.  which means that if you are really better than your elo you WILL win more games than you will lose due to this kind of players. the chance that these player are on the other team ( or more on the other team than on your team) is higher.

    simple maths.

    most people only see the losses caused by bad players on their team but do forget they win because the other team has these guys. another thing is that you need to abuse the bad people on the enemy team. the fed enemy singed abused your top laner ( a baddie ) while you maybe in mid did not abuse the enemy mid as hard. but that is your fault then.

    just to put it simple again : the enemy team has X% chance to get baddies in the team , while your team only has 4/5 X% chance to get baddies on the team ( since you are no baddie)

    if you are not able to win more games on the long run you might happen to belong to the elo you are at. maybe thats the first step to improve. a good tip is to never ever search the fault in your teammates...always ask yourself : what could I have done to save this player? i got ganked by the enemy jungle and died? that is no luck or your junglers fault . ask yourself : why was it possible to gank me? what can i do to prevent this next game and waste the enemy junglers time so that he will fall behind and be not as usefull later.
     teh enemy top lane got fed and is unkillable? thats not your top laners fault...why have you not been able to either help top lane and prevent this or get so fed yourself that it doesnt matter?

  • #14

    Again, I direct you to http://www.reignofgaming.net/blogs/a-different-view/vvinrar/22769-is-the-elo-rating-system-accurate#c88

    It's a very well-written article and has some good insight about the ranked system.

  • #15

    See signature.

    My definition of ELO Hell:-

    "Any point at which ego is greater than ELO."

  • #16

    I do not agree.

    Let's take my main account as example for season 2 (i queue dodged my way to 400 because i was bored).

    Before

    After

    And as for season 3

    Once in a while, i go back into old replays of S2 and mutter to myself  "gosh i was so bad". Now, don't get me wrong. I still think i am pretty bad for a LoL player but at least i have no illusions of my skill level and do not try to shift the blame to the people that solo queue matches me with. In the long run it all evens out.

    Last edited by FirionDarklight: 1/30/2013 7:46:34 PM

    EUW : Firion EUN : Teemo ate my pen

  • #17

    Quote from Bystekhilcar »

    See signature.

    So to get out of ELO Hell I must keep my ego constant while raising ELO. Once my ELO has passed my ego I can then raise both of them at constant rates! 

    ^ How to LoL

    Quote from Ultraviolenceuk »

    Does anyone else seem to think that your "elo" isn't a true reflection of your own ability but more a reflection on the other four people you get stuck with?

    Also seems the lower you fall, the easier it is to fall lower (lower elo seems to bring less people that care, more trolls, more ragers, more afkers) causing you to fall lower and lower.

    Does anyone agree?

    Also if 4 people are a reflection of your team vs 5 other players. That means you aren't making a positive impact on the game? ELO Hell is when you are not able to impact the game in your favor

  • #18

    Firion, had you just hit that ELO again after 200 games? Just out of curiosity.

    Preparing for the climb is scary.

  • #19

    If this "elo hell" really does exist, then it is not hard to get out of it if you truly do not belong in that elo. Yes you will have to carry your teammates, but why is it easy? Because the OTHER TEAM will at the skill level of your team as well. Numerous mistakes will be made on both sides. And if you truly are at the skill of 1500 stuck in 500 or something, then you should for the majority of the time be playing against 500s.

  • #20

    Common mistakes at low ELO (Things TO NOT do)

    #1) Chasing enemy into unwarded territory because "he is so low on health" - dying because of it.

    #2) Not capitalizing on gains: Example - you just killed mid and jungler for a double kill. Your options are:

    -Go back to buy new stuff with new gold YAY (wrong - this is a common thing here)

    -Take mid tower (Good option)

    -Go help bot(Preferably after Option 2)

    -Counter jungle enemy because their jungler is DEAD (hopefully you had their blue/red timed)

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