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The weight is too heavy.

  • #1

    So I'm just casually chillin' down here in bronze 4 (I don't know how it happened but it's happening) and I simply can not see a way out.

    Everyone hits the first guy they see, usually the tank, stray kills are too important, everyone scatters, half the people don't speak the same language, no one knows what dragon is for and no one wards. I just don't see how you can carry this? 

    I know everyone QQs about ELO hell but this is literally too much, I don't feel like I belong here but I can't get myself out. I'd literally need to be able to be in every lane, solo every dragon, never die, solo baron and get large enough to 5v1 constantly. This just doesn't seem doable.

     

    Anyone who's made it out please, tell me how you did?

  • #2

    It would help if we knew where you are.

     

    I'm at Gold V and I have Lee Sins who are still 0-2-0 at 25 mins, and Sonas who fire their ults backwards, and Garens that think when you're playing a lategame comp and your whole team is telling you to stall for Vayne late with an Aniva, diving towers 4v1 is smart.

    Last edited by raikaria: 2/23/2013 4:30:54 PM
  • #3

    I said in the first line, I'm bronze 4...

  • #4

    Quote from Ultraviolenceuk »

    I said in the first line, I'm bronze 4...


    My apologies, I must have missed that.

     

    Well, I was Bronze for a period in Season 2/Preseason 3, and carried myself from 1,000 to 1,575, basically playing only jungle. At Bronze/Silver there seem to be very few good junglers, and people quickly get motivated/demotivated by kills, which junglers cause most of. The junglers that are there all seem to play Lee Sin, and, as expected of low ELO players playing Lee Sin, they are pretty awful.

     

    Personally, I basically spammed Maokai games, with Amumu and Malphite when they were not banned. All three of them having ganks that even the most braindead lanes can take advanatge of. A lot of players in Bronze/Silver are OK when given an advantage, especially over other people of the same rank. To put into prespective, I had a 100% jungler winrate when I started jungleing seriously at ~1000 in the preseason, until I hit the 1575 mark. [About 8 Maokai games, 3 Amumu, 2 Malphite and 2 Nocturne, of course with wins and losses in other roles.]

     

    So, yeah, I just spammed tank junglers and let the derps do the heavy lifting after I gave them 2 or 3 kills.

     

    Of course, now I've run into a different issue, and my performance in non-jungle roles lacks a bit at Gold level, and the meta has shifted from junglers like Maokai to junglers like Jarvan and Vi, who I do not even own.

    Last edited by raikaria: 2/23/2013 4:41:02 PM
  • #5

    Seems like a reasonable plan, I'd been playing mostly nocturne, hecarim, vi and xin zhao in the jungle.

    It starts off ok, get my blue buff, start path then I look and my team is 0 for 10 before I'm level 4. Not every game, granted but it's definitely more often than not.

     

    Do I need to be like blue buff > Gank > Wraiths > Gank > Red Buff > Gank? 

  • #6

    I found myself also in 800 elo, which I think is pretty close to Bronze IV or something.

    The best way I found was playing a well-mastered, rather unseen AP mid champion. In that level people often wouldn't even know your kit or your ways of countering, and you should be able to get fed early and win the game quickly. 

    In 100 games I brought myself from 800 to 1200 elo maining Viktor.

  • #7

    I NEVER had problems getting to ELO that represents my skill. If you're getting streaks of terrible players and you really are better, just play a bit more - luck will balance out across a higher sample of games and you'll get where you belong. You cannot improve your teammates, but you can improve yourself - do everything that will help you to win - playing the strongest champions, maintaining team morale, playing ranked only when you're "fully charged" , etc. Duoing with someone can probably help as well. 

    In that ELO, the biggest problem is usually people not having focus on objectives and roaming pointlessly around the map. If that's the case, be the leader, mark objectives and lead your team into getting them. Junglers usually have a huge impact on games like that because early dominance and control of early objectives are really important.

  • #8

    Quote from Ultraviolenceuk »

    Seems like a reasonable plan, I'd been playing mostly nocturne, hecarim, vi and xin zhao in the jungle.

    It starts off ok, get my blue buff, start path then I look and my team is 0 for 10 before I'm level 4. Not every game, granted but it's definitely more often than not.

     

    Do I need to be like blue buff > Gank > Wraiths > Gank > Red Buff > Gank? 

    No.
    Blue Buff is not where you start.

    Wolves spawn at 1:40. Blue spawns at 1:55. Why waste 15 seconds doing nothing, especially when you can get help at Wolves as well?

    The best route right now is Wolves -> Smiteless Blue [Team needs to help] -> Red -> Lv 3 gank

    Of course, in Bronze, the odds people will stay around to take blue to, say, 250 HP, is slim to none, so you go:

    Wolves -> Blue [Smite] -> Wraiths -> Golems/Wolves [Golems for single targets or clears too fast for Wolves to spawn without wasting a few seconds, Wolves for more AoE based junglers] -> Red [Smite] -> Wraiths/Golems for Lv 4

     

    The biggest mistake junglers at Bronze/Silver do is to waste those 15 seconds. If you go Blue -> Wolves, and I go Wolves -> Blue, I have more HP [Due to being helped at Wolves and tanking them less], more EXP, and about a 10~15 second headstart on you, which I can use to gank first and get FB, or invade and steal your red.

     

    EDIT: As for your jungler pool, it's good, although you might not want to play Hecarim and Nocturne at low levels, since they have little/no hard C.C. A lot of people at low levels pick laners with low C.C [I'm thinking stuff like Katarina, Garen, Riven maybe, Morderkaiser, Darius counts as low C.C too.], and junglers with low C.C + Low C.C lanes = no ganks will work usually.

     

    It's why junglers like Maokai are so powerful at low ELO's as well, because no-one else will provide the C.C, but even a moron can attack a rooted target.

    Last edited by raikaria: 2/23/2013 5:08:01 PM
  • #9

    I always do wolves > blue, I'm not that dumb haha

     

    But yeah seems the path I'm doing is correct then. I have no clue what I'm doing wrong then...

     

    I think the biggest problem I have is "NONONONONONO ME JUNGLE ME BEST ME PRO INSTALOCK OR TROLL NOOB" every lobby, I usually end up having to take support or something cause everyone is so clearly better than me then I have next to no carry potential and have to sit back while my team fails.

    Last edited by Ultraviolenceuk: 2/23/2013 5:08:14 PM
  • #10

    Looking at your LOLKing stats, I see a few things:

    Firstly, Junglers are on a budget. As nice as Fratmogs is on Volibear, you should probobly be looking at a Locket or Ageis instead. [Although you were rather fed]. Boots of Swiftness is only good on Vi because it reduces her self-slow, Mercs or Mobilty are better on most junglers. For Bear I'd have said go Mobilty, especially with Golem Spirit. [For that matter Volibear should be going Razors, because he's an autoattacker, and even has a passive AS Steroid]

     

    Also, your farming seems pretty bad. Although they were wins, you should be getting a lot more than 113 CS, 102 CS and 88 CS in games that are above 35 mins. If you look at my LOLKing : http://www.lolking.net/summoner/euw/29039054#history, you will notice that in games where I play farming roles, I have almost double your CS. 

    39 Mins Tristana: 210 CS

    40 mins Rumble: 223 CS

    40 Mins Renekton: 204 CS

     Taking that Elise game that went 38 mins, I would have almost a full item advantage on your Elise from farm alone with Rumble. And I didn't get fed, in fact, I had a somewhat bad lane, and just got assists in teamfights. In fact, despite me being 0/6/7, and you being 5/11/12, I ended the game with 300 more gold. The CS difference is ~2.5k worth of gold.

    I cannot overstate how much of a difference that CS makes. You could have a whole complete item more at 35 mins if you improved your farming, which in turn would get you more kills, which in turn would be even more gold...

    I'm almost doubling your CS scores in games only ~5 mins longer. A great way to improve your laning skills is simply to get better at lasthitting.

    Last edited by raikaria: 2/23/2013 5:21:33 PM
  • #11

    I've been picking up some "Duo-comp" games with a buddy of mine after a series of horrible horrible games.

    Right now, a solid Hecarim-Oriana team is carrying us up and through.   Ain't nothing as hardy as a strong team composition.   No mater the skill, if you're able to consistantly counter the majority of there team, OR synergies with your own very well, you don't need to worry about failing the ganks, as it would take two failures instead of one!

    Oriana has CC, as you are in the know, and strong Area damage, Hecarim has the speed to initiate, and the amazing Hecarim Ult into Oriana ults I've seen can be astounding.

    Another favorite of mine, the Ryze+Lee Sin team.  They've got solid kits, a Rune Prison into Sonic Wave is always a nice touch, but they both deal damage rather instantly, with decent staying power.  Lee Sin can go in, use his moves and escape, Ryze does the same.  Ryze has a range thats awfully close to Lee's Shielding range, so you got backup if they're hitting, unlike say, a Xerath WAAAAY back out there.   The two champions have amazing Synergy, and playing with one you can just feel it, it really adds teamwork.

    However, on the opposite end we have the most hated combo of all (as far as I know) Ezreal Olaf.   Those two can't be allowed in the same team in the same game, they just don't work.  Olaf's just ain't got no defending ability for Ezreal, and Ezreals range means Olaf's rarely going to get cherry picks or even assists when coming in to assist a gank, either Ezreal kills it, dies, or Olaf kills it, or dies.  with lack of CC on both ends, and a major want to stay in combat that they can't force, the two of them run around like idiots as the enemy team gets the hell out.  Don't team these two up ever!

     

    And being a good junlger doesn't stop at the picks.  If you're a jungler, it doesn't mater what role you're playing. Top, Support, Mid, Carry- you're a jungler. You know the respawn timers, where the enemy junlger is, what's best to ward, how they gank, what weaknesses they have, if they require blue or red buff's or just use them, if they can push towers easily, if they're strong duelists or can't stick to targets.  You know what champions on your team need flash, that Olaf's and Hecarims take ghost, that a Lee Sin with Exhaust will win fights, but with Flash will catch runners and gank harder.  You just got to know these things when you're jungling! Thats why people suggest learning how to jungle, you're not going 1v1, you're going 1v1v1v1v1v1 at all times, you have to know who you can gank or how you gank them.  Olaf is never going to touch a Caitlyn+Nunu bot lane without solid help from his Bot lane, so don't even ask for them ganks if you can't hold the target down.   A good Xin Zhao will kill anything his E touches, but will NEVER just escape, he has to flash or he shouldn't have gone in.

    So much to know, so much to learn. Learn it.

  • #12

    Well the only advince i can give, is to persevere and get better. My journey from 400 ( i queue dodged my way there because i was bored) to 1300 pretty much taught me this. Consistency is the key. You play ranked gamed to become better not for the freaking elo. If you become better you will get elo. And in the end at bronze people are plain stupid. Period. I mean take a look at this shit from S2 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixLhYRGRFpw&feature=BFa&list=PL7332967828D01AE0 . I was bad, my support was awful, i missed all my skillshots and yet the enemy bot was even worse. If you cannot get out of that elo rating then you might be me in season 2 whose gameplay had gone stale and just didn't notice. And then after deciding to punish himself by dodging to 400 elo and tons of games later he just started improving again and ended the season in 1300.

    PS1. S3 seemed like a piece of cake and i was at gold elo for a while before the change to the league system.

    PS2. Screenshots, just to prove that i was indeed low, are below

    SEASON 2

    SEASON 3

    My point is, man up and try to become better. Elo/league advancement will come on its own. Good luck and have fun in solo queue. :)

    EUW : Firion EUN : Teemo ate my pen

  • #13

    Quote from raikaria »

    I'm almost doubling your CS scores in games only ~5 mins longer. A great way to improve your laning skills is simply to get better at lasthitting.

     

    Most solid advice I've been offered, thank you.

    I have one last question, how do you know when you should be on lane farming and when you should be team fighting? I seem to get this wrong most of the time. I either try to farm up for items and get "omg noob no team play no help report" spammed at me or be in team fights constantly and fall behind on CS.

    Is there a happy medium?

  • #14

    Quote from Ultraviolenceuk »

    Quote from raikaria »

    I'm almost doubling your CS scores in games only ~5 mins longer. A great way to improve your laning skills is simply to get better at lasthitting.

     

    Most solid advice I've been offered, thank you.

    I have one last question, how do you know when you should be on lane farming and when you should be team fighting? I seem to get this wrong most of the time. I either try to farm up for items and get "omg noob no team play no help report" spammed at me or be in team fights constantly and fall behind on CS.

    Is there a happy medium?

    You only farm during the laning phase. If there are teamfights happening, you should always be in them. When you're the ADC, you should be leaving the lane at around 20 minutes with at least 150 CS in an average game. From then, you're with your team pushing, defending and contesting objectives. Never go bot when nashor is up after 25 minutes and the enemy team isn't bot. It is okay to split push a bit and get a few extra CS if it is safe and a fight isn't imminent.

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