This thread was Locked by Dankaw.

Early Tower or Dragon?

  • #1

    When I'm playing jungle and a gank bot lane results in a double kill, I often find myself wondering, "should we take tower or dragon"?

    The answer varies from game to game, but I was hoping to access the wisdom of the community to accumulate a collection of "questions to ask yourself" when deciding between taking an early tower or dragon (you can safely do one, but you don't have time to do both).

    Ready? Go!

  • #2

    I'd take Drake. Taking an early bot turret is really a questionable call; it becomes harder for your bot lane to CS in lower elos without overextending. Also, the earlier you take dragon, the sooner it respawns. Although, taking dragon early is often a very dangerous play. If you're low from the kills bot, it can be very easy for their jungle or mid to come contest, especially if they are early game powerhouses and would be able to 1v3 without much trouble (Darius, Cassiopeia, etc). Hope this helps!

  • #3

    I would have to agree.  In almost all cases taking Drake helps out your team more then the tower.  However, the one case were a tower would be helpful is if you took both kills bot and you think they will still lose the lane.  Taking the tower prevents someone like cait from bullying the lane.  Also as Camarena said you have to make sure you can take drag without dying.  Best time to go is if your mid can push the lane and you see their jungle top.  However, if you have no wards to see them coming it and you know they have it warded its often best to do neither.  I usually don't like taking and early bot tower because it doesn't allow your bot lane to pick up additional kills or deny them cs.

  • #4

    It depends.

    Taking a tower early is acceptable if your team can take advantage of it, meaning the fed lane roams and pressures other lanes. This has the benefit of gaining map control as well. It's a disadvantage when your team doesn't take advantage of it, such as they push deep into enemy territory and get ganked, or just wander about aimlessly not doing much with their gold advantage. Also, if the tower happens to be mid, I would take mid rather than dragon just because the map control lost from mid is substantial.

    Contrasting with dragon, taking dragon has the advantage that it is a shared objective. When one team takes dragon the other team obviously cannot, meaning it's a permanent gold increase. Compared to towers, if you take bot tower but their top takes the top tower, the gold remains the same (relatively speaking).

    Ultimately, it's a just a judgement call. Typically dragon is taken directly after a turret because enough people are killed where the enemy team can't contest it. However, there are situations where dragon can be taken safely due to the enemy jungler being in top lane or their team is too spread out to contest it. An example scenario would be top is being ganked, their mid recalled, and their bot was pushed to the turret, thus allowing for a dragon kill rather than pushing bot lane to no possible avail -- especially if they can wave clear easily.

    EDIT: I forgot to add one more point.

    In cases where your team is behind and you manage to ace the enemy team or force them so low they have to recall or can't safely defend, taking turrets is generally better due to increase in map presence. In addition, it may be possible to take multiple towers, thus allowing for a much greater gold and XP difference that dragon wouldn't match. The only time I would take dragon over towers in this example is if the lanes were too pushed in the enemy's favor and your team would be unable to push them quickly enough to take a tower.

    Last edited by McJix: 1/3/2013 12:10:34 AM
  • #5

    When you win a fight you ALWAYS need to take advantage of an objective, whether it is early or late game. Dragon is a major objective early game and is much better than the turret. When the enemy team has a poor chance of contesting dragon then you must do it. The turret will ALWAYS be there and will ALWAYS take the same amount of damage to kill, so as the game progresses the turret will fall anyway from increased damage output. Dragon is usually an objective you are fighting for constantly, and think, in your scenario, if you go and do dragon, then your whole team will have more gold and more advantage and will be more likely to take down more turrets in the future anyway.

  • #6

    I say kill the dragon as many times as you can (so in your situation, kill it instead of the tower) as you are only going to kill that tower once in the entire game. Dragon yields more gold during the course of the game than the tower.

  • #7
    This is a difficult question, so I'll answer it in a simple way:
    If you are Asian, you take the tower
    if you are from other regions you take the dragon.

    Anyways, jokes aside, from a gold's perspective, taking a tower gives everyone on your team 150g, or a total of 750g for the team, taking the dragon gives everyone on your team 190g plus another 25g for the person that got it, and maybe another 10 gold for the sake of smiting it, that's 985g.

    However, why do Asian teams prefer taking towers? a major thing about towers is the map control they offer, if you take the mid tower, you can start invading the enemy jungle and steal their monsters and buffs, making life difficult for the enemy jungler. if you take the bot tower you can push their bot lane back so your AD carry can, in turn, go mid and push the mid turret, and slowly snowball the game, or be in a more advantageous position for the next dragon. Plus, remember the purpose of the game is to push down the enemy nexus and only towers and inhibitors stand in your way, killing dragon isn't actually necessary to win the game, but killing towers is.

    Many Asian teams prefer a fast push strategy(which never seems to be exercised by any other region except team Fnatic) and pushing a tower suits that strategy, and other regions prefer taking the dragon, and if there's one thing recent LoL tournaments tell us, it's about how Asians proceed to win (Added at the request of Waaargh).

    One thing though, if you do decide to go for the tower, don't just go back to your lane to farm, go to another lane and help them push their tower down, visit the enemy jungle often to clear out their jungle monsters, or coordinate with your team and start ganking other lanes. Either way, don't just sit there.

    TL:DR: Take tower, but again, why not both? Push the tower down and then go for the dragon!
    Last edited by FrozenXZeus: 1/4/2013 2:59:06 AM
  • #8

    I don't have a huge amount of jungling experience... However, from an AD carries perspective:It depends on a huge amount of factors...

    1. Where is your jungler? If he is busy dealing with top lane, Dragon may not be a safe call... Even if he is currently Mid or Bot, is he better off going top to help him out in the next 20 seconds?
    2. Where is their jungler? If he is in an unknown location it could effect your ability to take Dragon safely, or to push the turret... In other words, he could easily show up and defend the turret for a few waves (Depending on the champion and how good he is at wave clearing)
    3. Where is your Mid? If he is able to push the lane and then zone their Mid, Dragon is a safer objective...
    4. Where is their Mid? Can he force your Mid away? Can you take Dragon without your Mid's help?
    5. How close was the fight, did you dominate them? If so, you might want to keep the turret up regardless, in order to exploit them more in the laning phase...
    6. Are you low HP, is Dragon risky? Global presense on the other team... (Global Ultimate or Teleport?)
    7. Is your jungler a fast objective taker... EG: Sejuani won't be able to take down Dragon as fast as Nunu...
    8. Which other turrets are down? If they've already lost Mid, taking Bot will have additional benefits...
    9. Which AD carry are you playing and do you have access to AS steroids which will result in easy turrets later on in the game? EG: If playing Caitlyn/Nunu you can threaten their turret at any time, so you may want to wait, take Dragon now, then take their turret within 5min regardless...
    10. Vision... Pink ward? Oracles? Sight wards on approaching paths? Even the CD on your next Trap could be a huge factor...
    11. How comfortable is your jungler going to be in the enemy jungle? If your jungler is a great duelist, or good at controlling buffs, or even good at escaping bad situations, the turret may be more important EG: taking turret means he'll now have much greater access to the enemy wolves and Blue...
    12. How comfortable is your support with over-extending, do they have good MS/escapes? If so, maybe over-extending won't be so bad...
    13. How well does your Mid laner communicate? Also, how good is your map awareness? If they rarely call MIA's and you have bad awareness, over-extending might not be wise...
    14. Is your top laner struggling or winning their lane? Sometimes gaining that extra 40 gold and the global experience from the Dragon kill will benefit them more... Sometimes they'll be better off if you go for the turret, then send your support to top lane or switch in some other way...
    15. How fast can you actually kill Dragon? If it's early in the game, you might not be able to kill Dragon, then recall to heal in time without losing a huge amount of CS or lane dominance... Are you low on Mana? This could cause issues with finishing the objective as soon as possible...
    16. Which enemy buffs are up? If you start Dragon and they have vision, you should be able to draw in Junglers and mids on both teams, leading to an opportunity for your top lane to steal their Red... However, if you went for Turret instead, their Mid probably wouldn't come all the way down to Bot to defend, thus making the Red steal riskier...

    There are probably plenty more... But anyway, these are some of the things you have to take into consideration... You can't always consider every possible outcome in time... If you think for too long, you end up wasting time and getting no objectives at all... You can't always make the right call, it depends on a lot of factors which will change over the course of the game... Try to make the best decision possible, but at the end of the day, getting an objective is better than getting no objective, so if you're unsure whether or not you can actually safely take Dragon, just put some damage on the turret, take it as low as you can, force the enemy to lose CS, you can always re-group soon and force a different objective...

     

  • #9

    TreeBurrow lists so many factors there. XD It's true that all of them are important to some extent, but this can all be summed up in fewer points, really.

    1) Which teams have vision on Dragon and paths to Dragon/between lanes? If the enemies spot you early they'll have a chance to react.

    2) How much of your team can you assemble for Dragon? This will mostly be jungler, AD carry and support, maybe mid, top lane if they went to roam or have Teleport on hand (or it's Shen). The more people you can gather to take Dragon, the better.

    3) Do you know the positions of the enemies? This is tied to vision above - if they recalled or are low on HP and Mana, you don't have to count on their interference, if you haven't seen them for a while, they might show up to challenge you.

    4) How much damage output your assembled team packs? This is related to your chances of winning if the enemy team contests dragon, and how quickly you'll take the objective.

    Now, whether to take Dragon or Tower when given the opportunity, depends on your playstyle and your team's overall strategy (if there is one). But as FrozenXZeus said "if you're Asian, you take tower" - if you're unsure of the strategy the default choice is Dragon, the tower can wait until you eventually bring it down. But if you have a team formed around early dominance and quick pushing, THEN you take tower, and if the enemies were slow, go Dragon right after while they handle the pushed lane.

  • #10

    Quote from FrozenXZeus »

    This is a difficult question, so I'll answer it in a simple way:
    If you are Asian, you take the tower
    if you are from other regions you take the dragon.

    However, why do Asian teams prefer taking towers? a major thing about towers is the map control they offer, if you take the mid tower, you can start invading the enemy jungle and steal their monsters and buffs, making life difficult for the enemy jungler. if you take the bot tower you can push their bot lane back so your AD carry can, in turn, go mid and push the mid turret, and slowly snowball the game, or be in a more advantageous position for the next dragon. Plus, remember the purpose of the game is to push down the enemy nexus and only towers and inhibitors stand in your way, killing dragon isn't actually necessary to win the game, but killing towers is.

    Many Asian teams prefer a fast push strategy(which never seems to be exercised by any other region except team Fnatic) and pushing a tower suits that strategy, and other regions prefer taking the dragon.

    TL:DR, if its mid or bot tower, take tower, if its top, take dragon, but again, what's stopping you from both??

     

    That is more or less what I was about to argue for. Take tower, push further into their side of the field. This make it easier for your jungler to invade and get support from lane. Since it's also very aggressive warding is now even more important, to prevent ganks. If mid go ss, communications are imortant to make the aggressive lane get the heck out, and then mid push the tower.

    As noted this makes the next drag eaiser to grap since it is now in your territory. Their blue and red buff are now in the contested zone instead... :)

    Frozen, you should also add "Asians proceed to win".

    Some games you lose or win by default, you can't do anything about it. And then there is the portion of games you CAN influence.

    -Lichtbringer

  • #11
    One thing I would say is to be very careful of doing a dragon while an enemy Amumu is up (and not known to be in no position to fight it). Even if his team is down a man or two, if he snares your entire sortie in the dragon pit and his team has any good AoE damage/CC whatsoever available you could easily feed a bunch of kills and objectives. Generally, if it's very early game I find dragon is the better choice to go for, but after about 15 minutes or so I look to take turrets and ward aggressively at any opportunity if I'm the jungler (or support). If a team goes up 3 or 4-0 in turrets I very rarely see them lose in solo Q. The passive map control is so powerful.
  • #12

    I would just like to state that you should consider the condition of your tower/the state of the lane
    by this I mean, if you were choosing between bot tower or dragon, if your bot tower is close to death/bot lane isn't snowballing in either teams favor specifically I would say go for the turret. The issue is, how early of a tower is it? I would rarely take a tower before 12 minutes in most cases. If your laner is very farm dependent then taking an early tower can set you back, or if your laner is an early-game champion it can ruin their chances at snowballing over their opponent. Mid is the only tower I would consider taking early, simply because it offers more map presence and you don't have to over-extend to much to continue farming it.

  • #13

    dragon can respawn.. tower cant.
    It honestly depends, if you take bottom tower early then it makes future dragons easier.

  • #14
    On It
  • #15

    All the times get the turret unless you are talking about bot tower before min 10, enemy adc will just freeze the lane and you will be ganked more easily.

  • #16

    Jav, on the other hand you have some much easier ganks if bot lane has no outer tower to retreat to.

    Some games you lose or win by default, you can't do anything about it. And then there is the portion of games you CAN influence.

    -Lichtbringer

  • #17

    I think that team make-up affects the decision also, if you have a strong split-pusher team, then taking that tower can snowball you into taking other towers earlier making your team more dominant on their side of the map. Leading to your team being able to clear out their side of the jungle as well and deny them as much farm as possible.

  • #18

    dragon is more gold however you will mostly trade top tower for dragon.

    only take dragon over bot turret. bot turret taking early is bad.

    dragon also give xp

  • #19

    Towers tbh. Towers gives map vision. Having towers up means its easier to have control over your own jungle. If you take down bot tower you just push out the lane as hard you can, enemy is probly gonna freeze the lane close to the other tower but thats ok, Bot should just rotate up to mid or top to preasure thoes towers as well. The adc that freezing is gonna have to clear the wave and join his frends or the tower is gonna go down from being outmanned.

  • #20

    Most of the time, it's ok to trade top tower for drag. The other ones are too important to let go like that.

  • To post a comment, please or register a new account.
Posts Quoted:
Reply
Clear All Quotes