Reign of Gaming

Curse almost beat blaze at IEM Katowice I honestly think that they are better since then and so it wouldnt be inconceivable that they could make a series out of it atleast.

If curse ends up 11-0 they will finally be considered the best team NA without question and that is what i am looking forward to. can they be the one team that goes 28-0 in LCS

who is val O_O

I did do the buff cost and the chart has now been updated with the new total scores as well as a score analysis next to the values chart.

I used these values to calculate the values of the buff: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ao4HbZ3QRBffdFdlVU5RWlo3d3p5TGJvQmtvdUdDR1E#gid=0

Quote from exacerberus »

Quote from DukeofNormady »

So starting off, The reason I asked for a list is so that I could try and better understand what he sees as valuable compared to how I had laid it out. You stating that I asked for opinions and that's what I got dismisses the ability to discuss between people. I would also like to see what potentially you value as far as a buff system would work because you say BB would probably be a 5 buy why would it be a 5, that is more what I am trying to get to in asking people to make a list.

No, you see, my point is that I arbitrary value Nunu's BB a 5 in a 1-5 scale because (here could try to be smart and say that ADCs are already beasts by themselves lategame and giving BB to them is basically giving methamphetamines to Rambo, but that's not my point)... because it's my sole opinion. You see, what I was trying to imply is that is impossible to face tier list from a completely objective, unbiased, mathematically exemplary point of view because... well... because we're humans.

 This is illogical, Exacerberus.

Spock is the best :D. I do understand that no tier list is perfect I just hope that this could shed some light into some of the deeper realms of tier lists. Also my friend suggested making a buff list of comparative gold values and I agreed that that that would be a far better comparison than my buff chart and that would help to bring things closer to mathematics compared to opinion.

Quote from exacerberus»

Why he should do a list to prove his point? You asked for opinions, you got answered. Also, even post nerf, you seriously can't compare Nunu's BB to Alistar's TR... and if you do BB is probably 5 and Alistar's TR is 2 (may be 3 earlygame if it would affect 4-5 people, since its base values are ok and earlygame people have little HP pools, but bottom lane is 2 people meta; lategame he can AoE heal 5 people but meh, TR has poor scaling, support Alistar doesn't buy AP and people with a Warmog's don't even notice a TR heal). Nunu's BB is pure gold all game long for his ADC. Alistar is a strong champion, but for sure TR is the worst of his abilities, by far.

So if -just to use your words- : "In actuality the way that the Buff system I incorporated works they would be just as valuable seeing as how BB gives 2 stat increases and is multi-target so therefore gets a score of 3 and alistar'sheal gets 2 as well as an additional 1 for being aoe.", this is probably an excellent indicator of some evident flaws in you system. You may call it systemic error, but to be honest it's the whole concept around your value tier list that is flawed, because you claim to give some mathematics back-up to its results, yet to quantify said values on each ability and many other factors you just utilize... your own opinion (which ultimately is not less biased than those behind any other tier list). Also, it doesn't help that, claiming a highly mathematical approach to the subject, you neglect factors like projectile speed and width of AoE (just to name a couple).

So starting off, The reason I asked for a list is so that I could try and better understand what he sees as valuable compared to how I had laid it out. You stating that I asked for opinions and that's what I got dismisses the ability to discuss between people. I would also like to see what potentially you value as far as a buff system would work because you say BB would probably be a 5 buy why would it be a 5, that is more what I am trying to get to in asking people to make a list. I do agree that this does neglect a few parts of the game play but this is a simple look into strait comparative values because trying to calculate skill is something that the ELO as well as the League system judges not me.

As for the chart system I thought that color coordinating the charts and showing the largest values first would help people to better understand how I reached the total score down at the bottom but this seems to be more of my error for not explaining that well enough.

@steelfirez

It would be your own opinion to assign higher values to movement speed and attack speed over an area of effect heal like alistar's. In actuality the way that the Buff system I incorporated works they would be just as valuable seeing as how BB gives 2 stat increases and is multi-target so therefore gets a score of 3 and alistar's heal gets 2 as well as an additional 1 for being aoe. Now I will agree that situationaly BB is better than the heal but I would also argue that in some cases i would rather have that aoe heal over BB. If you would like to make your own buff list I would be happy to further discuss with you

@floriansaul

If you actually look at the chart Blitz(in yellow) has the highest CCS at 26 while taric has the lowest CCS at 5

Link to the chart: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ao4HbZ3QRBffdEtJd3hIQzJ0elI3dE5GYXFRMVNfNmc#gid=0

Link to the original document: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WxKPU5LBcLc5kOi2YGUnAJqndV4TmtP0bXa4ah1a_RQ/edit?usp=sharing

Hello my name is The Duke of Normady and I decided to go out and design a different type of tier list, one based off of values rather than just by opinions. The chart I created does not deal with skill or trying to compare synchronization between champions it is a simple look at ten different categories and how the champions compare to one another. Before we get into the results I would like to make my assumptions as to how this would play out. In order from first to last Nunu, Blitzcrank, Taric, Leona, and Thresh. Now on to where my opinion might have affected the results is the build that I chose to give to all of the champions: Shurelya’s Reverie, Mercury’s Treads, Ruby Sight Stone, Locket of the Iron Solari, Runic Bulwark, Mikael’s Crucible. The reason that I decided to run this build on all of the champions is because it simplifies the fact of having to account for item buffs and helps to streamline all of the calculations.
All of the calculations were done at level 18 with Cooldown Reduction and masteries taken into effect(If you search Duke of Normady in LoL client and look at my elementz page those are the masteries I used. I did not apply Runes into my calculations or changes to armor and magic resist from the masteries because they would not change the results and it saved me a little time).
There are a few things that need to be explained; Crowd Control Score(CCS), Buff Score(BS), Mana Consumption Time(MCT), and all of the parentheses. Starting with the CCS, I had looked around the LoL wikia as well as Reign of Gaming looking for a quantified set of CC values but not having found anything to my liking I decided to develop my own list using the chart found on the LoL wikia page about CC(http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Crowd_control the summary table). I gave myself guidelines as to how to deem values by stating that:

1. Any form of CC +1
2. Any type of blocked action(or miss) +1 for each instance
3. For any CC that had less than the three usual ways of dispelling CC(QuickSilver Sash, Cleanse, Crucible) it would get +1
4. If it stopped flash and teleport It would get +1 and if it disabled all summoner spells it would get an additional +1
5. Any form of CC that worked in an Area of Effect or was Multi-targeting would gain an additional +1 on top of its base score.
6. For each slow over 50% it would gain an additional +0.5

So by using these guidelines we end up with a chart resembling this(from weakest to strongest)

1. Attack/Movement speed slow: 1-1.5
2. Snare/Root: 2
3. Silence: 3
4. Blind: 3
5. Entangle: 4
6. Polymorph: 4.5
7. Forced action(taunt/fear/flee/charm): 5
8. Stun: 5
9. Airbourne(knock up/knock back/pull): 9
10. Suppression: 9

So by taking these new found values and applying them to champions as well as the additional points as stated within the guidelines you would end up with my version of a CCS.
Now moving on to the issue of the Buff Score. This issue was much less complicated to deal with due impart to the fact that there are far fewer buffs than forms of CC. The guidelines that I gave to calculate the BS were:

1. For each stat increase +1
2. Shield +1
3. Heal +2
4. Ally/self displacement +3
5. Any Multi-target, Area of Effect, or Aura Buff would receive an additional +1

Using these guidelines I then simply applied each champion with the proper BS versus trying to create a list of all of the possible buffs you could encounter.
The next subject that I would like to discuss is Mana Consumption Time. MCT is probably one of the most important stats that is calculated because it states how long you are able to maintain your ability to cast spells as well as how long you can maintain maximum DPS. This was fairly easy to calculate by simply applying the CDR from your items and then dividing the Mana cost of the ability by the cooldown time hence creating a Mana Per Second(MPS) value which you needed to maintain in order to cast the skill, then adding all of those costs up and minusing them by the Mana Regen Per Second(MRPS), and then taking that value(Total Mana Per Second or TMPS) and using it to divide the total mana and you would end up with the seconds it would take to drain your mana(Total Mana or TM). A simplified equation would look like this ( MPS1 + MPS2 + MPS3 + MPS4 ) - MRPS = TMPS and then TM/TMPS = MCT.
Now diving into all of the parentheses that I placed into the chart starting with Taric. The ()’s I have in Taric’s armor stat is when his Armor aura buff is not active because shatter has been used, but because it is normally active I prioritized the higher Armor. Nunu has a very very large difference in the ()’s for hi MCT and this is because of the fact of if he is using his passive or not in order to try and curb mana consumption. So by taking into account his attack speed buff from Blood Boil you would be able to completely remove the MPS of Ice Blast and you end up with the ~156 second MCT, but if you do not activate his passive you end up with a super low MCT of ~39; but taking the mean of the values you end up with an MCT of ~98 still well ahead of Thresh in this instance(I did a similar calculation with Taric and he ends up with a mean of ~65.5 MCT). Moving on to Leona, the ()’s are just the increased values from her w and the reason i placed her above Thresh is simply because .2 armor is too negligible  to really matter that much in a team fight as well as thresh is not assured the capturing of souls. The major difference in the ()’s and his normal DPS is the fact of whether or not he uses his ultimate because if he does not and the passive is only hitting one champion then his DPS skyrockets but seeing as how his ultimate is a very successful in bursting every team fight and assuring that the passive would hit the same target multiple times consistently is a bit too far fetched for my liking. Finally Thresh the ()’s are simply the standard soul count that I stole from DIFFTheEnder’s article about how many souls Thresh needed to stay along side the two other hook champions ( http://www.reignofgaming.net/blogs/a-different-view/diff-the-ender/22934-damnation-how-many-souls-does-thresh-need ), but the probablity of Thresh being able to collect more souls than that is relatively forseeable, but I did agree with DIFF that that was a very good median to be at.
You are probably wondering what I thought of the results at this point and to be completely honest I am pleasantly surprised at the outcome, I am very happy that this table proves that Nunu has the values to reign true among top of the list, but I am very surprised that Thresh scored so high , and considering the possibilities he has to overcome some of the limitations that were set on his soul count he could very well be on top of this list.
Thank you so much for reading all of this and looking at the data that I calculated I hope that you find this information valuable to the games that you will play in this new season. I am open for discussion about anything on my chart or in this article and I will be releasing another tier list dealing with another type of support. Have a great day :D

I now realize I for got to explain how I got total score, total score is the combinations of all of their positions in each stat. So looking at health Nunu would get a 5 because he is the highest, Blitz 4 for being the next highest, Thresh 3, Taric 2, and Leona 1. The time that I varied from this is during the Magic Resist chart Taric, Nunu, and Blitz all received 3 points seeing as how there is no way to separate them.