Reign of Gaming

@GentlemanGustaf: I don't have any interest in hyperbole. I'll offer another bulleted list:

• TF's range is 525: the same as Graves, and greater than Sivir.
• If the sole over-riding purpose of an ADC was to deal damage, only the highest damage carries would be picked. But in reality, utility and team fit matters, as well as performance during various phases of the game. All of the ADCs have access to triple multiplicative scaling in some form or another, for "good enough" damage output. S3 has even brought us alternative builds for carries, in some cases.
• Something doesn't have to be single-handedly important on its own to be worth consideration. The point about TF's AP ratios wasn't that they ended the conversation, but that the lack of true AD scaling wasn't fatal to it.
• If we were to suppose that Caitlyn's lack of a serious steroid was counter-balanced by other advantages that she brings to the table, I'd say it isn't much of a stretch to extend the same consideration to Destiny/Gate, extra gold, and PaC, for example.
• There are only two solo lanes and a jungle on Summoner's Rift, in the vast majority of cases. It's not out of the realm of possibility that one could gain advantage by using those lanes (since TF would be bot) for utility that he's not bringing to the table.
• I wouldn't accept the argument that because Destiny/Gate isn't used exactly as it would be in mid, that his kit doesn't "fit" in bottom lane. It's not as if running ganks out of mid with his ultimate is the only valid or efficient use of the ability.
• Orianna's passive, as a comparison to TF's DPS, is basically irrelevant. It's in more or less the same neighborhood as making a point of Annie's AA range.

Twisted Fate would rather be AP mid as a mage, speaking from the perspective of his kit in a void, but viability and team comps aren't decided by strictly what's best for an individual champion. There are only so many resources to go around, and a lot of ways to Tetris a team together.

Quote from GentlemanGustaf »

Worse range than every real ADC but Graves and Sivir (who intends to fight when their W is down on Kog?)

No AD scaling ability that isn't linked to his auto attack (only Tristana suffers from that)

Worse steroid than basically every ADC but Ashe.

He's not really a jack of all trades so much as a four.

His ult and stuns are indeed reasons to want him on your team, but they're not a reason to want him AD.

When you're comparing him to "ADCs" like Kayle and Jayce and Teemo, that's a worrying sign.

He has auto attack damage that's pretty similar to somebody like Orianna.

It's not a surprise that TF has weaknesses as an ADC. Every ADC has shortcomings, it's one of the things that makes bot lane so interesting. A different view on this subject:

• TF's "worse range" is by a mere 25 units in most cases. While range is an advantage (see Caitlyn, Barrage Kog, high level Trist), those are examples of a SIGNIFICANT range advantage. TF's disadvantage... think of the distance that a naked level one Anivia travels in one second. Now divide that by 13, because that's what 25 units is, in real terms. Also, Graves and Sivir are real carries. And Kog must respect the cooldown on his W, which opens counterplay options to abuse his low natural range.
• No AD scaling, sure. But by comparison, TF has useful AP ratios on abilities that he uses for damage, which allows him to greater benefit from a teammate's WotA, or a Baron buff. Compare this to Ashe, or Graves, or Draven.
• Ashe is also a real carry. TF's autoattack steroid is also available 100% of the time, and he has two of them. Because Stacked Deck is a steroid if Headshot is a steroid.
• TF's ult and stun are useful no matter what role he is in. If TF can play ADC, you get his utility without giving up a solo lane.
• It's important to compare TF to champions like Jayce/Kayle/Teemo in order to establish who the REAL clown ADCs are.
• Orianna is a mage with an autoattack enhancer that doesn't really even belong in her kit in the first place, so I don't know what the purpose of that comparison is.

That's not even close to an apt comparison.

TF as an ADC has the same range as Kayle and Graves, and better than Sivir, Jayce, and no-Barrage Kog. He is only 25 behind vanilla carries. His AS steroid is whatever, but he has one, and a 2s stun is better than even the situational Condemn, and available a whole lot more often. He has global vision and a limited-range teleport. And the poke.

Yeah sure he gets played mid, but that's because his mid lane game is awesome as an AP mage. It's not like ADC TF is a leper like ADC Teemo.

Brand's passive is not equal to the task of bursting through Warmog's. He's only getting an extra 20 damage/sec, before MR is taken into account, on a target that added 1000 health. Hell, the 1.5% HP/5 from Warmog's negates at least half of the extra burn damage just by itself.

People like Brand are not useless, but they are homeless when you can get 80% of the damage and much better team utility from someone like Anivia. Ziggs is another mage with this problem. Assassins can cope even though they are AP bursters, because they have the kits to go after MVP squishies, although even in that case an ADC with Warmog's might make it a suicide mission.

Leblanc's minor utility in no way compensates for her lack of ability to 100-0 people without snowballing out of control.

^ Which explains the current popularity of Kayle mid, who is a sustained magic damage dealer with utility. Maybe we'll see a Cassio comeback, too. Anivia is already back in vogue.

Quote from raikaria »

Also, if burst AP was useless, why are Akali, Lux and Katarina so popular now, hmm?

Akali and Katarina are not mages, and Lux has strong utility. The real casualties here are those mages that are primarily bursters or otherwise have trouble with 'mog's, like LeBlanc or Brand.

I'd have to do an in-game experiment to be sure, but I wouldn't be surprised to see only four ticks out of it, though five ticks would be possible in theory. I was testing it with Riven, and short combos only resulted in four ticks for me.

Quote from Daeguman926 »

Also, out of the three Spirit items, which one do you believe is the best one? I think all three could be viable in that golem gives you health for tankiness, wraith gives you more spell vamp, and lizard gives i believe around 150 extra damage with his ult.

That's not how SotEL works. When you hit someone, it adds the debuff, which slowly ticks every second. It's not immediate. If you re-apply the debuff, it just refreshes the duration. It does not add a base amount every hit.

The true damage proc is just a throw-in for that item, honestly. You buy it for the +AD and the CDR, as well as the HP/5 and MP/5. Hecarim has a weird interaction with it because of how his AOE works, but for other champions it's just "whatever", in my opinion.

That doesn't make mid useless, it makes burst AP mid useless. Mid lane is still important when it comes to objective control, ganking, etc.

The solution is to play ADCs and Supports that can carry.

• ADC: play one that can either 1) start fights (Ashe, Varus). or 2) protect your positioning when on a team that won't peel for you (Ezreal, Corki, Tristana).
• Support: pick a support that can make plays. I like Leona for this. Sona and Zyra are also good. Get wards everywhere.

In soloq, you are limited in what you can do to win the game even if you play your best, so sometimes you just have to roll with the losses. Try hard to win your lane no matter what. Carry a pink ward around even as an ADC, because your teammates probably won't. Etc.