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Great discussion, guys! I don't think Riot would need to enforce each role w/ individual champions so we could still see Elise/Zyra supports. The current meta has been in place since s2 and I think that it's not going anywhere. It's high-time I can queue as a "Jungle" whether I decide to play Volibear or TF in that position is on me, though.

I'd say enjoy 30 min + queue times, but jungle's not that popular.

 

But seriously, if you did that, queue times would be:

Mid: 1 hour

Top: 30 mins

ADC: 5 mins

Jungle 5 Mins

Support: Instant

I couldnt agree more, all smart players already rerolled mid because the lane is superior to all others in every single way.

You aren't even consistent in your que roles.  Which just further proves your point imo.  ADC, Jungle and Support are roles.  Mid and Top are lanes.  So you either need to change it to Mid, Top, Jungle, Bot and Bot or ADC, Support, Jungle, APC and Bruiser.  I bet you are already seeing the problem with this right?  Meta has APCs mid but there are plenty of people who like to run AD mid.  As I said though, the original point about que's still are supported I just wanted to point it out.

When I jungle Xin, I run AS marks, AD quints, Armor seals and MR/lvl glyphs plus 9-21-0 masteries.  I feel this gives me enough AS for the entire game with my kit.  Lately alot of team comps have been putting all AD top, mid and bot so once I get madreds I go Locket then Randuin's with Ninja Tabi as boots of choice although Mobility would be an option to look at as well.  If for some reason you get the AP bruiser with AP mage team comp then I go Merc Treads with Bulwark as first items after Madreds.  If your support is going Bulwark that's even better, grab a Spirit Visage for the CD.  If there is the old standard AP mage with AD bruiser and ADC comp then I still go the first route with Locket and Randuins.  Both of those items are just too OP right now for the cost, especially on a champ who likes CD like Xin.  Locket has hp plus armor and an active shield.  Randuins has hp plus armor and slows attack speed (always good vs AD champs) and has the active for slowing movements speed.  Makes you basically unkillable vs AD comps.  So after 3 items you can start going offensive items if you like, but I usually just keep going Giant's Belt items and letting my team get fed off me.

Win Nao is just a braindead champ imo.  I mean how can you screw his combo up?  Its the same combo everytime.  Hardly ever will you not go EW-Q or after level 6 EW-R-Q.  I only put E and W together because if you know you are going to land the E you might as well W first and if it is a spur of the moment dash before they get away thing then you E first then W after.  So with such a set in stone combo the only difference between bad Xin's and good Xin's is itemization and of course game mechanics and decision making skills.

Quote from airbagtelex »

Quote from lincelp »

if you use WQE, you are proc his shield with the snare, thats not good at all.
a semi good Noc would pwn you if you shot your CC first.

no.. any good ryze will use his e to waste nocturne's shield then W and q him and walk out of range of his fear. U just wasted a bunch of noc's mana while ryze stacks mana.

I think it's funny people think you can run Nocturne out of mana in the first place.  What does he have to waste mana on?  He doesn't have to use spells to farm at all.  Spell shield is a low mana spell. I would only Q the enemy mage when I want to exchange.  E fear is only for when you land your Q and block a cc with your W.

Skill > Champ always but theorycrafting this, there are few mid mages I can see that have an advantage vs Noc.  His entire kit is solid.  Land Q and it increases your AD, gives you MS and ignores unit collision, land W and it increases your attack speed, land E and your opponent lets you give damage without receiving for 2 seconds (with your increased AD and AS).  Since his kit is entirely offensive I build Noc tanky.  Ruby crystals and Giant's belts so those mid mages can't 1 combo you.  At level 3 - 5 with your QWE I don't see how you can't force a flash from your enemy mid and that's before the ult comes into play.

As far as Ryze which everyone in the thread seems to think is Noc's biggest threat mid so far...Nocturne's passive heals him every 10 seconds.  You know this right?  So with a spell shield to negate at least 1 of the spells and a heal to recoup some of the damage, I am wondering how Ryze will run him out of mana before Ryze is out of HP?  Even if Ryze lands his snare because Noc missed his shield and used it on another spell, its still negating something and Ryze doesn't get his full combo off which Nocturne can passively get alot back before Ryze's combo is ready again.  I am only Bronze 2 atm but most Ryze's I see at this level start with a mana crystal and 2 pots I think.  That isn't going to cut it against my Noc with boots and 3 pots I can tell you right now.  So please shed some light for me on what some other options Ryze could have or something I'm missing that hasn't been stated yet.

Ya that is what I'm looking for.  I've seen all kinds of posts on here of people claiming this skin is better or that skin is unfair.   I'm looking for a list that is banned by Riot if possible.  I couldn't find anything personally, but if there are skins banned in pro play you would think there would be a list somewhere.  The fact I couldn't find a list doesn't mean there isn't one.  But if there isn't a list, then maybe its not true that skins are banned in pro play?

So I watch alot of Crumbz and TheOddOne streams and the other day one of them was jungling Nocturne ( I think it was Crumbz at the time).  Nocturne is my main jungler atm.  He picked the ravager skin for the game and said that he never picks eternum as chat people watching the stream requested because it is banned in pro play!  I had no idea some skins were banned.  Is this really true?  What other skins give an unfair advantage and are hereby banned from use in tournaments?

Why wouldn't riot just fix the unfair advantages the skins give you?  The skins aren't banned online for ranked play.  It still gives an advantage.

The reason he gave for why it was banned is the chains that times the fear on Nocturne are basically invisible on eternum skin.  So the enemy can't tell if or when they will be feared to flash away if needed.

So again, are there any other skins that are banned in pro play that we know of because of issues like this?

Thanks for all the advice!  My mentality previously was to gank bot as much as possible because ADC's are so squishy and there is a support to help me chain CC for the kill.  Because supports are usually the only lanes who start with wards at my elo I have really been paying attention to their starting items and builds.  If I seen an enemy support start with doran's ring for instance and no wards, I know its game on for an early gank since they want to be aggressive anyway.  If they have 3 greens or 1 pink / 1 green, I know I need to lane gank if my team pushes the lane or come in hard and hot if they are pushing.  Mid is just so hard to gank, especially early game (definitely after first clear).  Not too many mids push the lanes hard early since they don't start wards usually (as I said - in my elo).  Top is similar to bottom.  If my top is pushing, I will lane gank and sit in bush while the lane resets for a gank.  If enemy is pushing, they usually don't start ward either and I can river gank them early (depending on my jungle route).

Every opportunity I see at mid though, I will start to exploit over other lanes and see where it gets me.

So my question was more for what to do when my laners get off to a bad start with some examples and in retrospec I think I should have babysat that Kat in mid lane and got her going so she could roam with me to help the other lanes if possible as someone stated.  It has been brought up that Nocturne may not be the greatest Bronze Solo jungler in the world so I have been looking at other junglers mentioned and LoLKing for win rates, ban rates and popularity.  I have learned to jungle Shen and Amumu in the rare case we have first pick and I can get those champs.  Both are OP imo.  Shen doesn't get as much love anymore but with him I can passively farm my jungle, counter jungle and when my ult is up have a lane bait a fight to gank or save a lane from a gank to turn it around.

So top banned jungles right now are Vi, Shen, Amumu, Xin and Hec - with all but Hec in the top in the OVERALL top 6 spots.  So basically getting to jungle Vi, Shen, Amumu or Xin is next to impossible and sometimes Hecarim.  In my elo this is pretty much true although I rarely (but not never) see Hec or Xin banned but the others I see more often than not.  That is actually the reason I was playing Nocturne in the first place.  I thought he was underused but strong still and I love his kit overall:  Spell Shield that gives me AS (hard to come by), skill shot that gives me bonus AD, delayed fear that forces flashes and of course the hugh gap closer with blind that disorients opposing team.

It appears that Jarvan is the most popular jungle with a win rate over 50% that isn't in that high ban rate list.  I prefer AD junglers anyway, so I think I will pick up Xin Zhao and Jarvan IV and play some normals to see which I have more of a feel for.

Quote from doctortyang »

Alrighty, I personally am a Diamond IV Jungler main right now, and I climbed from bronze over a long period of time just like you. 

At every single step of the journey I was unsatisfied with my elo and thought I belonged higher but the truth was, I simply Improved so much. I used to focus on details of mistakes my team made just like you, trying to put blame on others but ultimately, I could have done a better job and carried my team. 

LET ME TEACH YOU SOME THINGS. STUPID SHIT LIKE FIRST BLOOD HAPPENS AT ALL ELOS

GET OVER IT. YOU HAVE TO MAN UP AND CARRY IF YOU ARE ABOVE THE ELO YOU ARE PLACED IN.

IF YOUR ENEMIES GET FIRST BLOOD SOMETIMES THATS EVEN GOOD CAUSE THEY WILL BE AGGRESSIVE AND VERY EASY TO GANK CAUSE THEYRE FREAKING BRONZE?!?!? If YOU CANT GANK A BRONZE ELO LANER PLEASE QUIT LEAGUE.

I hope this was helpful

Did you even read any of my posts?  I made a thread asking for help on tactics and strats for when the game doesn't go so well.  Of course its easy mode when all your lanes win by themselves.  You just signed up on this site to make your first post to complain about me complaining?  When all I did was ask advice on what to do as a jungle when you are behind?  This makes me feel tingly inside that my post irked you so much to go through all the trouble.  Thanks!!

Alot of great information here I really never thought of before.  Thanks to everyone who replied.  A few things I would like to comment about:

1. I'm not opposed to playing another jungler and I know that Nocturne gets a bad rap about pre-6 ganks, but to tell you the truth I have great success with Noc before level 6.  At Bronze 2 not alot of people know I have a spell shield or a delayed fear so I can get both of them off pretty easy most of the time.  And if they do know it usually requires a flash to get my chains off them before they are feared (I've found landing my Q is a must in ganks - if you don't land Q then its time to retreat).  And a flash = a good gank in my book, especially if I come back before flash is back.

2. I used to use Maoki when I first started jungling in late season 2.  I switched to Nocturne because I was looking for something more AD and just plain more damage oriented for the baddies down here who just can't seem to kill something that is rooted then knocked up for them forever.  I may try Xin or Vi or Hec.  When I first started jungling Noc I was building him way to damage heavy and have within the last month really started going tanky for great results.  Having enough HP to tower dive so the adc or bruiser can get the last damage needed is quite a must I've found in alot of my games.  As such I would think to build one of the new junglers the same way.  I need to research but would Vi, Hec and / or Xin work with tanky type builds while still being able to put out quite a bit of damage?

3. One thing I do hate about Nocturne is late game team fighting.  Basically I try to sacrifice myself for their adc most of the time or pick off the support or ap mid if they are out of position bad.  Would one of the others suggested be a better 'tank' for teamfighting?  I know Xin's ult is like Janna's disperse.  Vi is a dive like Nocturne's only with a stun included.  Hec is a dive too?  Maybe with a fear invovled?  Haven't seen him much in my elo.

Ok.  My usual build with Nocturne goes - Madred's, Boots, Ward, Pots on first back if I can afford.  I skip boots if I cant afford.  Then I either finish a Wriggles and or get Zerker Greaves after.  I prioritize Wriggles but if I don't have enough I'll go ahead and finish my boots.  Next I go for Brutalizer and then start buying Giant"s belts and turning them into whatever.  If my team or I are doing really bad I skip the Brute and go straight for Giant's belts.  I primarily use a guide I read from TheOddOne which stats that Nocturne has so much offense in his kit you really only need Wriggles and a Brute to do damage.  I throw in a Sightstone into my build as well because I like having the enemy jungle warded always and if we are doing bad I like having my jungle warded always.