Reign of Gaming

Besides the mana requirement, anyone who knows how blitz works can get aggressive for the duration of the cooldown, since most of blitz' threat is gone for a while. In my mind that's often almost a bigger reason to not miss the grab.

considering situation (b)... What about if the lane is already pushing and/or the wave is pretty much in the middle and there's not much chance of enemy jungler being able to freeze the wave at their turret? Wouldn't it be better to push to turret quickly? If the wave is already pushing, it'd be safer for the laner to get a quick reset with two people in the lane. Might get some damage in on the turret and from there on your laner can control the lane as they please.

Quote from boorboor»

 

Does that make sense?

Yes. If you build sightstone, then philo and straight into shur, you don't get much out of the philo as far as gp5 goes, If you build philo, then sightstone and finally update to shurelyas, the philo has been ticking for a while, giving you both items' gp5 simultaneously.

Some of that difference may be offset by having the higher gp5 of sightstone for longer though, which is affected by the usage pattern of the sightstone, and how much of the passive regen time of philo you actually benefit from etc. All of which I suppose falls under the category of "the truth is far more nuanced than I'm making it out here" as you said, and would take much more detailed analysis to really find the optimal case :P

Quote from Vuldin »

I'd be thankful for the win so I wouldn't report him, even though he was toxic. A win is a win imo. 

The next game you might get him again, and this time he might not be able to carry. He'd still be just as toxic, probably even more so, and make the game that much less pleasant.

Or if not you, someone else, or you'd get him after someone else didn't report him.

Still... Of course that's your choice to make :)

Quote from DarrenNinja7 »

Very well said, Raefe. I can't help but be a 'bit' toxic sometimes, but it's frustrating when people don't listen to me when I'm trying to carry. I can apply this to my chat in game from now on... 

On the other hand, I get hit with many toxic chats as well, and I'm not too sure to deal with it in a "friendly" way when I say "Please don't rage guys" and he replies with something like "Lol I won't listen to noobs like you"

If that's their attitude, sometimes it's simply best not say anything. If it's something about the game meant for the team as a whole though, one rager who claims to ignore it... well, ignore him ;) At the very least, reacting to something like that is fruitless.

Quote from Daethr »

It'd be a punish/report but you have to make sure you understand what 'being toxic' really is.

If the player is asking without any insults for his top/jungle/mid w.e to please do a certain thing and they continuously refuse you can understand he'll be frustrated. 
There's a big difference between flaming and asking someone to do something which  a lot of times people get offended the second someone suggest they do something to up their game. 

Some people might not know how to express themselves in a manner which doesn't seem toxic. There's a difference between "ward river noob" and "ward river please". Both say the same thing, but the former should be punished, the latter obviously not.

In this context it's important to realize, that it's the speaker's responsibility to express it in a manner which doesn't appear toxic to the recipient. Not the recipient's responsibility to not get offended.

On the topic of the OP's question. There's no excuse for being toxic. There's no excuse for flaming, including or limited to "defending yourself". So I'd always "punish".

Quote from CowsGoM3ow »

WTF is up with this "Suck it up" shit.

It is a question.

Not a QQ thread.

You asked a question and people answered.

The question you seem to pose in your original post is essentially "pick order or call order?". You didn't explicitly state it so, but that's what it seems to distill down to.

The vast majority have said pick order so that's the answer, even if you don't happen to like it ;)

You also asked if it should be a reportable offence... That's a more difficult question. If not respecting pick order were reportable, then that'd pretty much eliminate any chance of discussing and compromising on what roles everyone takes, and that would be bad. On the other hand it'd reduce the disagreements, which could be good.

 

Quote from Vsin »

Dafaq is Structure Tanking?  I know what Hull Tanking is, but not Structure o/

Personally, I'm still in the mindset that I do want a Shurelia eventually, because in that regard the Philo really does pay itself off by dramatically dropping the cost of the Shurelia while still giving me sustain.  Maybe I'm just so old fashioned that I refuse to drop my Philo even though its stats got nerfed...what is it now, 4 times?

However, I am in the camp that advocates skipping the Sightstone in lieu of...well, anything else really.  I've been having a blast in Normals by running various Mages as supports and buying 2x Doran's Ring + Wards.

Even if you want to "support" with an ap caster, still build sightstone. It'll save you gold otherwise spent on wards, meaning you can buy more ap ;)

Quote from boorboor »

oh and generally speaking, this item is the Sight Stone. Which, yes, you'll wind up getting anyway, but in practice the gp5 on the sightstone is significantly higher in the mid to late game, when you are far more likely to be using more than the 2/3 wards per 3 minutes. More likely to run into oracles on the other team, more likely to move around, more likely to drop wards as a quick one off sight etc.

So by builing the sight stone in the later game, i still get the effective gp10 out of it when its at it's most valuable, and maximise the gp10 i got from the philo stone in the early game (and, as mentioned, i feel the regen is generally superior to lane with than 180 health) 

So it is. So it comes down to valuing the mp5 and hp5 over sightstone's higher max health and higher gp5 + more flexible vision control.

I personally value the vision control, the room for error the higher health provides and the bigger gold pool more.

Do have to note that if the game stretches into a really long one, a philo sitting in your inventory will probably give more gold than just a sightstone would :P

Quote from boorboor »

Quote from Raefe »

In any case, once the sightstone is built, it's the more gold efficient item, which means more gold to spend throughout the game.

 

Again, not neccesarily, especially if you build a Shurelya's. At that point you threw 700 gold at the stone ANYWAY, you just never benefited from the gp5 it had at any point. So a chunk of the bonus gold the sightstone gave you is nullified.

 

 

Not sure I follow... How does not benefiting from philo's gp10 reduce the value of sightstone's gp10?