Quote from Insanitism »
SOOOOOOO
Offtanks with CC
But all 3 of those are tanks, not offtanks.
Offtanks are champions like Leona, non-jungle Alistar, Lee Sin, Jax, Wukong, Diana, etc. Champions that build or naturally get semi-tanky, but shouldn't be the one solely responsible for engages, but can make engages if needed to. The kind of people who excel in 3v3 skirmishes more than 5v5 teamfights.
Quote from acerunner »
Quote from TheDirtyHobo »
I fully agree that Viktor's a pretty mediocre champion, but labeling him as "the worst AP champion in the game" is pushing it pretty far. When I think about it in terms of "who would I rather have on my team, Viktor or X?", I would have to say he should be more towards the bottom of tier 4.
For some other changes, I'd personally say Eve as a low 2 or high 3, Veigar as a low 4 or high 5, Kennen as a mid 2, Yi as low 4, and Karma as a 6.
I would also fight you for saying Janna is not viable as a mid, I think her lane control and teamfight strength as an AP is insane, even if she doesn't do the kind of burst you expect from other mid laners.
I never said he was the worst in the game. He's just the worst most Viable Mid in the game.
The list is of champions who build AP as their standard build path in their standard position of play, and it basically has everyone on it that builds more than one AP item by default (except arguably singed), and Viktor is at the bottom of it. We can play the semantics game all your want, but you are saying he's the worst AP in the game.
I fully agree that Viktor's a pretty mediocre champion, but labeling him as "the worst AP champion in the game" is pushing it pretty far. When I think about it in terms of "who would I rather have on my team, Viktor or X?", I would have to say he should be more towards the bottom of tier 4.
For some other changes, I'd personally say Eve as a low 2 or high 3, Veigar as a low 4 or high 5, Kennen as a mid 2, Yi as low 4, and Karma as a 6.
I would also fight you for saying Janna is not viable as a mid, I think her lane control and teamfight strength as an AP is insane, even if she doesn't do the kind of burst you expect from other mid laners.
Quote from Gprinziv »
If you want to prove you're the best, you should be able to beat any challenge headed your way. This isn't a physical sport, where playing a specific team can really take its toll on your ability to compete in the next round (like hockey).
The problem with that is there are too many variables in this game, and being "the best" is not a binary state. If you were the best, you should never lose a game to any strategy, against any team or team comp, regardless of what they banned from you. But the game isn't like that. Losing to a team doesn't automatically make that team better than you: things can very often be more like a rock-paper-scissors approach (A beats B which beats C which beats A) than the transitive approach (A beat B, B beat C, therefor A beats C) people like to think of with competitive sports.
If you're scissors and you see that this next match determines whether you're matched up against paper or rock, it's pretty obvious how you're going to try to handle it.
Quote from Butch_Flowers »
no he didn't, just because he cant perma slow someone at range and has to actually learn to hit and pick up ax's properly doesnt mean he was nerfed.
Actually, that exactly does mean he was nerfed. It just doesn't mean it wasn't a well deserved.
You feel it's ok to criticize others because you got off your ass long enough to donate blood for a national tragedy? That thing that a lot of people do every 3 months without needing such an impetus, costs no money, and only takes about an hour of your time? Truly you are a saint.
The teams are donating what they feel like they can afford, there's no problem with having a bit of fun with it. If anything, I like Regi's idea because it invites other teams to come 'score' $100 by killing him, so it can involve even the teams that may not make enough to donate themselves.
Regardless of all that, calling someone a scumbag for donating money, no matter how much or through what mechanisms, is just idiotic behavior.
There's a difference between "innovator" and "jackass who decides to try AP trundle just to see if it works". An innovator is a person who actually thinks things through, realizes what it is that makes a champion strong at a certain role, and finds ways to manipulate non-standard champions to better fit that role. You can probably come up with a moderately successful idea this way maybe 1 out of 3 times, depending on how much/little you think the idea through. The latter is just monkey on a typewriter style brute force working through combinations until you find something that works.
I need to link this article to people every time they complain about banning Taric instead of Malphite. I would much rather have to deal with the slight annoyance of having a knockup spell to initiate over having a fed enemy bottom lane because my AD can't learn to play a little safer.
Then again, who am I kidding, those people can't read.
Elise works extremely well. Start flask and just q him constantly and autoattack in between. He can start winning once hes about 8 if you're not significantly ahead., but Elise makes an extremely good roamer around that point, so of you can start grouping and forcing fights, then the ap trynd becomes useless. She also has a really good kit at countering trynd, later on, can stun him during his ult then spider e him to follow when he soins away to secure the kill
Math time! Took a little longer than expected, I wasn't getting quite the results I expected so I decided to chart the whole thing out in excel so I could tinker around with values better, as well as put it in its own post rather than edit the old one. Here's an uploaded copy on google docs if anyone wants/cares to check it over or toy around with it themselves: https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B4F_br3qRaeaNWxVMHZlRkxGSUE
Basically, what I found is that early game, it essentially does nothing for you. Flat AP will win at any MR amount levels 1-6. Around 9, which is when I assumed that you would be finishing up your Guise and sorc boots, it starts to pull ahead by a little bit on basically anyone who isn't intentionally stacking MR (~130 or less). Once you add in Abyssal, you actually lose damage on very low-end MR targets, but extend your high end range by a bit, so your new target range is >~65 and <~165. Adding in Void Staff for lategame makes AP better until around 105 MR.
Now for the more subjective part: which is 'better'? Kat's ability to bully a lane really kicks in at about 4, when she has 2 points in W and a point in shunpo and BB. AP is indeed stronger at this point in the game, so if your goal as Kat is to try and shut down your enemy lane as quickly as possible, I would say that it's better. If your goal is to wait until around 6 and then start roaming as much as possible, then I would say that MPen is slightly better. If you're playing as a midgame snowballing squishy-eliminator, then I think MPen is ultimately the better choice.
tl;dr flat AP for very early aggression and against people who build either no MR or tons of MR, MPen for midgame power and against people who build 1 or 2 small MR items.
Edit: Spruced up the chart a little bit to improve readability and shifted it over so the last 2 columns aren't being cut off.
