Reign of Gaming

Most people who advocate for this change are only asking for it in Soloqueue, if it were added as a normal queue as well, it would be separate. If you get put into a premade with 4 champions, you're sort of fucked to begin with, under any system, anyway.

Exactly this, save time with less dodging and you are actually "saving time", because even if you have to wait longer for a match, playing a 30-40 min match in a role you don't want is time spent not really playing, as well.

Going to respond to this in quoted pieces, because this is incredibly large response. 

Kass and TF don't like to be pulled out of mid lane because it stifles their ability to roam, Morg and Kennen couldn't care less where they solo. Lux is a burst caster, Vlad is sustained DPS. Orianna has utility coming out of her ass, Brand mostly exists simply to deal tons of damage. On a basic level they're all "AP carries" but they each have a niche.

Nothing here changes anything about what I said before. The only real examples you mentioned were Vlad/Kennen, which at least were common top lane picks at one point, to begin with, so I see no real reason why it still wouldn't be a possibility, this is why I favor the "queue" to just be Top/mid/Bot/Jungle, I won't speak for the implementation, personally I don't think anything would really need to be implemented, if it were explained to people what characters typically go where, I see no issue, if something in the meta changes, there really isn't any reason why people can't pick it. Exactly why there is no issue with Ad casters going mid, and some rarer types of AP casters going top. I believe Support/Jungler are the two roles that should possibly have character restrictions, mainly because these hardly change, and characters that aren't QUITE good at it could still be included.

Are my teammates going to be mad if I queue up as AP caster and want to play Malphite as an assassin? Is Cho'Gath a bruiser or a tank or an AP caster? Is Tryndamere an AD carry or is that tag reserved for ranged champs? There are simply too many fine details that role-based (or lane-based) queueing can't answer. The only way to make it work would be for Riot to pick a particular team comp as "default" and railroad it onto everyone, which they've stated many times won't be happening. Then everyone will be pissed if you want to go against the meta (e.g. suggest double AP) and you probably won't have the right players to pull it off anyway.

As I said before, I support the actual being lanes, and giving guidelines for the types of champions that go where. Malphite has seen play as a kind of Ap caster so he could go mid, but usually people go top and build this way, anyway. Cho'gath could still go Top/mid/jungle as he does now. Ad carry would most definitely be restricted to Ranged Ad carries only, Melee carries already have 0 chance against an AD Carry/Support bot lane, so i'm not sure why you dislike this. Support/Ad/Jungle are the easiest roles to separate out which characters can do it. Melee carries could still go top/jungle easily, and bear in mind this would be a separate queue or for Ranked ONLY, so this doesn't effect whatever "fun" you want to have in normals. If people get mad at you for particular picks, it's just going to happen, it happens now all the time. Double AP still works in the confines of this system, 2v1 top/bot lanes still work in the confines of this system. You could even go 2v1 mid if your team would agree to it. Anything outside of these bounds is almost certainly being done purely for amusement unless you are the highest of high levels and trying to put someone off guard.

But your support? Doesn't have to go with the AD carry, is no more obligated to purchase wards or aura items than anyone else is. Hell, you don't necessarily need an AD carry... or you can have two! Magic damage can be had from more than just an AP mage. Even metasheep realize that junglers can play any role. The "jungler" tag simply denotes champions that can adequately clear neutral monsters at low levels but there are support junglers, carry junglers, and even some AP junglers. 

Your support doesn't need to go with the ad carry? Is this a serious statement? I mean even those this is technically true, you are pretty much screwing over your ad carry more than anything else, unless it was some type of "roam" support, which could STILL WORK under this system, but a support refusing to buy wards/aura items, etc.. isn't really fulfilling the role of a support to begin with, it's not a matter of playing support "differently" it's just being a bad support.

I think the tags need to be fixed, in the first place, and I think that would actually fix all of the problems, because the liklihood of some champion being able to do a new role overnight is nearly impossible, but as I said i think simplifying it to lanes is a better solution. 

Two ad carry comps are possible, but are generally a bad choice, Double Brusier bot could still be done, even though this is a mythical thing that hardly gets any play, even though people act like it's so great. Nothing about the "jungle" tag stops a character from jungling. 

Bear in mind, these suggestions are all for RANKED SOLOQUEUE, nothing else, if you want to fuck around in normals, you are completely free to do so, but ranked games aren't for that, it should be treated far more like a competitive sport, than "special snowflake" fuck around zone. This isn't 1v1 Starcraft where your choices only affect you, it's a team game where you are potentially forced with 4 other people who want to do different things, and if you change it so everybody can play a role/lane they want, you are reducing a lot of bullshit that goes on in ranked to begin with, it won't fix everything, but at least it gets somewhere, instead of having 3 people in queue arguing over mid everytime.

Quote from dmv »

Quite a bit of this is false. For example, although there are 4 sources of income, riot has already stated that a zero cs champion that fills a supportive role was not an archetype they had in mind. Also, there have been many instances of players going off-meta in the lcs. 

Riot should not enforce the meta, that would be idiotic, as is this article.

That word "meta" I do not think you know what it means.

Quote from Alexfrog »

Quote from Katrex »

Completely and absolutely wrong IMO. The first thing you're doing is assuming the meta is the best way to play... but the meta changes. People find something that beats it. And that becomes new meta

The meta has not changed from Solo, Solo, ADC, Jungle, Support in YEARS.  And it wont.  No enforcement of who goes to what lane needs to happen, which is where any meta shifts happen.  With this setup you can play double AP, or double AD.  Literally nothing is lost by this, the only change is that people get the champs they want, and then they no longer troll as a result of fighting in champ select.  Its 100% upside.

 

Exactly

Quote from RisingChaos »

"Dungeon Finder" will never work because roles and lanes aren't aligned to one another. Karthus and Talon are both typical solo (mid) laners, for example, yet play entirely different roles for their team. Many champions can also assume multiple roles based on their itemization choices.

You still need to discuss with your team what you're playing, later picks need to use a little brain power picking synergistic champions to go with what your team already has, etc. All a "dungeon finder" does is eliminate the need for people to state their preferred lane/role upon entering champion select, implementing one would be a waste of time.

Besides which, solo queue is not the same competition that teams is. It's competitive, sure, but there's no solo queue equivalent to the LCS or high-profile tournaments. If you occasionally have to buck up and play something outside of your comfort zone (especially all you last pick "anything but support" players), deal with it. You might take some lumps but you'll ultimately learn more from the experience.

There really isn't any issue of Talon/Karthus being two different types of characters. The role would probably be AP/AD caster, Jungler, Brusier/Tank, Ad carry, Support.

What lanes they go to would be up to you still, so you could have 2v1 lanes still, like they usually run in LCS.

Sure playing the role you don't want to could make you learn, but there is a large group of people that just want to play a particular role, if you want to play more than one role you are completely still allowed to do so, under this system. There aren't too many competitive games out there that shoe-horn you into something you don't want to play/aren't good at, other than this genre, and that can be fixed, it's already not an issue in teams because it's a team, and they rarely  have members shift around because it would be stupid to do so. 

First off WoW is different because unless you are playing a class that has multiple roles AND at the same time have gear for said other role, you are forced into queueing for one type of role, in LoL you are not forced to do this, so it's already separate in this sense.

As far as queue times go, it's already been suggested that you can queue for multiple roles or maybe even for any role, and you'll just get a random role to play, but even then if you wanted to play say AP MID, you are guaranteed to get that role when it pops(barring trolls), instead of having to be in a lobby where you are not guaranteed to play the role you want, so if you play a full game you are effectively waiting 20-40 mins to play the role you want and this could go on for more than one queue, so if your only goal is to play the role you want, you aren't really wasting anytime, and if you just want to play the game, you can queue for more than one role.

I feel like I pointed this out already, but nothing about a queue for role system prevents you from picking an ad caster mid, nothing, zip, nada, and the sole reason it's something people do now was because of the season 3 changes, not a change in thinking on the mass population.

Nothing prevents Zyra from going bot, or fiddle for that matter. The reason these champs were put in these roles, however, was because of pro level play, not because people in soloqueue figured it out, so in either case it doesn't help your position.

Yes people have done these positions for THREE YEARS, the switch from ad carries going mid to bot is literally the only change that has happened, and this system still doesn't prevent it from occurring. 

What innovation, seriously what innovation? It's creeping on or may possibly be 2 years already where the lanes have been exactly the same, aside from the possibility of doing 2v1(top/bot)(which isn't restricted at all by this type of system). All the innovation that has been done have been stuff like having more ad casters mid because of the ArP changes and the like, but nothing that would require overhauls of the system because of a "meta" change. This argument may have made more sense back in yester year, but we clearly can see that nothing has changed lane-wise, so why are we holding back this system still?

Quote from chiball »

@airbag and you enforce this how??  Does the client kick the "support" if he starts moving towards top lane at 1:30? lol!

It doesn't need to be enforced in game, and it barely needs to be enforced out of it, but a vote-to-kick system could be used. Top and Mid already vary highly in what goes in those lanes, so it isn't much of an issue for creativeness, and this system doesn't prevent you from doing a 2v1 top and bottom lane either. I see absolutely no issue with this system, only benefits, if we are going to have trolls no matter what, why not make a system that would benefit pretty much everyone?