Season 3 Itemization preview Update - Armor Penetration and its effects on the scaling of our Attack Damage Casters class

Xypherous has posted a rather nice sized update to the Season 3 Itemization preview. This time going to even more details and giving some examples.

IMPORTANT: Xypherous is now doing a Q&A on the official forum thread. You can check out all the posts as he is answering questions in our red tracker. We will also roundup all the Q&A  tonight in the News Roundup.

Today I’m going to talk about Armor Penetration and its effects on the scaling of our Attack Damage Casters class.

Let’s take a look at one of the core items for this class – The Brutalizer:

The Brutalizer
  • +25 Attack Damage
  • UNIQUE Passive: +10% Cooldown Reduction
  • UNIQUE Passive: +10 Armor Penetration


The Brutalizer has long been the trifecta of Attack Damage, Armor Penetration and Cooldown Reduction that these characters lean on for early game dominance. However, Flat Armor Penetration as a statistic overall has been pretty overpowered in compensation for the fact that items with the stat don’t typically scale at all into the late game. This turns these characters into early-game gambit characters, out to dominate the early game as quickly as possible before they become irrelevant.


To adjust for this, we’re making two major changes:

1. Flat Armor Penetration and % Armor Penetration values are generally being lowered, but now Flat Penetration is calculated AFTER % Penetration

For example: Let’s say I have 50% Armor Penetration and 20 Flat Armor Penetration versus a target with 120 Armor.

Currently, on Live, I would ignore 20 of his armor via Flat Penetration (100) and then 50% of the remainder, leaving him with 50 Armor.

After this change, I would ignore 50% of his armor (60) and then 20 of the remainder, leaving him with 40 armor.

In this manner, we can make sure that penetration values can be cost-effective for both late game and early game because now you have an option to synergize the two statistics together if you need to pierce large amounts of armor.

2. Brutalizer builds into more than one thing

The Black Cleaver
  • +45 Attack Damage
  • +10% Cooldown Reduction
  • +10 Armor Penetration
  • Passive: Dealing physical damage to an enemy reduces their Armor by 5% for 6 seconds. This effect stacks up to 5 times on the same target.


Let’s dig down into this item a little more. First off, the Black Cleaver now triggers off all physical damage. This means that spells and abilities can trigger the passive. In fact, let’s look at a couple of our AD casters and see how this item works differently on them:




Pantheon, the Artisan of War

Spear Shot: Will trigger Black Cleaver once on a single target.
Aegis of Zeonia: Will not trigger Black Cleaver, as it does magic damage.
Heartseeker Strike: Will trigger Black Cleaver three times in a cone, as it does physical damage to the target three times.
Grand Skyfall: Will not trigger Black Cleaver, as it does magic damage.




Garen, the Might of Demacia

Decisive Strike: Will trigger Black Cleaver once, on a single target.
Courage: Will not trigger Black Cleaver, as it does no damage.
Judgment: Will trigger Black Cleaver up to 6 times, in a circle around him, as it does physical damage 6 times.
Demacian Justice: Will not trigger Black Cleaver, as it does magical damage.

So now, AD casters attempting to deal with highly armored opponents have a way to partially nullify the armor of targets they choose to fully commit to with all of their skills. However, they make a trade-off here; while Black Cleaver is highly effective at negating the effect of enemy armor, the Cleaver itself does not provide all that much Attack Damage as a whole. So your skills will be slightly less effective on targets with high health and low armor, simply because they’ll be doing less overall damage. Black Cleaver is incredibly effective at shredding targets with lots of armor, but doesn’t really do well trying to kill a mage with Rod of Ages, for example.

What about Last Whisper? How does this work with Last Whisper?

Last Whisper grants you % Armor Penetration while Black Cleaver reduces the opponent’s armor.

Let’s look at an enemy with 400 Armor. Black Cleaver will reduce their armor by 25%, leaving them with 300. Last Whisper will allow you to ignore 40% of the remaining 300 armor, which means their effective armor against you will now be 180.

Last Thoughts

We hope that this change helps create a smoother scaling curve for many of our AD casters without causing them to utterly dominate and kill everyone. While these changes allow them to ignore armor much more effectively, the characters in question will be making heavy tradeoffs by simply not dealing as much raw damage as they could have with a B.F. Sword build against soft targets. Additionally, these iterations of The Brutalizer and The Black Cleaver allow our more spell-focused ranged carries like Corki or Graves to have a viable alternative to Last Whisper that will give them great utility if they find themselves on a team with lot of physical damage characters.

Thanks for reading and stay tuned for more!

-Xypherous

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Comments

  • #24 LolLolLolJake

    The fact that Pantheon still has 2 skills that do magic damage and scale on ap is stupid as hell.

  • #25 pagansaint

    For one it allowed him to take a Gunblade and use every stat on it, giving everything he landed more damage while acquiring the sustain and clicky slow.

  • #26 Gprinziv

    Because people stack AP to do the big damage on his stun.

    Last edited by Gprinziv on 11/9/2012 3:20:08 PM
  • #27 scruftypufty

    oh so you'd prefer a pantheon with 4 ad abilites? yeah good idea let's nerf q and e so we can have useless ad scalings on w and r

     

  • #28 LolLolLolJake

    Yeah, because Mantheon's Q and E are so horribly strong now, right scrub?

  • #29 pagansaint

    Yes. Actually they are ridiculously strong right now.

    Q does 64-225 + 1.4 bonus AD scaling. If target is below 15% it Crits to become basically 128-450 + 2.8 bonus AD scaling. Also: highly spammable.

    E does 26-106 + 1.2 bonus AD scaling. Per strike. It is 78-318 + 3.6 bonus AD scaling for all three hits. In a frontal AoE. In other words it is never not worth using in a fight.

    Last edited by pagansaint on 11/12/2012 7:53:03 AM
  • #30 LolLolLolJake

    And yet, despite these supposedly "ridiculously strong" spells, the last time Pantheon was seen in a major tournament was when M5 trolled with Pantheon and 6 boots Udyr.

  • #31 pagansaint

    That isn't a problem with the abilities, that is a problem with ANY AD caster's overall capability to fit into a team with the current metas.

    He fits Mid more than any other role, but overall the current tournament play doesn't support AD casters mid due to the current roaming/counter-jungling/mitigation dynamics favoring APs more.

    Pantheon would actually be the one champion that could break into being played mid, but that pigeon holes a team into either a small handful of champion choices top, or stacks the team's damage output too heavily towards physical, where their opponents get an easy early/mid game counter of running armor rune pages.

    Or was I supposed to play to your ignoring the facts "argument" about the abilities?

  • #23 guy420

    W-Will be twitch viable n-now?

  • #17 Rispudding

    I'm wondering it the new BC will make all physical dmg teams viable, so that you can go a bruiser or ad-assassin mid without problem. A couple of physical dmg dealers on the team with AOE physical abilities will quickly apply 5 stacks to the entire enemy team in a tf so that stacking armor will be 25% less effective and boosting the dmg of the ADC.

    It could also make shred comps interesting. For example a team of Corki as ADC (gatling should be amazing with BC), Kayle as top  (her passive has perfect synergy with the item as it also stacks 5 times) and J4 jungle (also perfect with BC Q shred and 2 aoe physical dmg abilities). 

  • #13 HPBEggo

    I really fail to see how this won't be silly broken on some ADCs, much more so than on any of the AD casters.

  • #16 Rispudding

    Depends on price. ADC's will typically be focusing tanks who have high hp and rely on dmg, crit and as + ls for sustain. Building this will delay items like I.E. or BT meaning less dmg and crit or dmg and ls. The tanks often also have so much armor that LW will be better anyways. The ADC also often have to switch targets so can't allways build up stacks.

    Since this item shreds armor it is far better on a bruiser I think. For example Garen. A tanky Garen with this item for dmg can spin on most of the enemy team shreeding the armor of the entire enemy front line and buffing the dmg of the ADC.

  • #18 Rhakzor

    I agree with you. Champions like tristana or Graves will easily get the Black Cleaver procs fast enough.

  • #22 guy420

    They are probably revising most of the ADC items too, so we can't say how OP this will be until it is released. Imo it would be nice if not every ADC rushes IE and we can see people like corki/graves getting this, ashe still going for IE and whatnot.
    However some inestability or "opness" is to be expected, changing items basically affects to large groups of champions and that will for sure need some iteration to balance.

  • #8 coolshanth

    How does urgot work with Black Cleaver?  

    His grenade is a physical damage DoT, so it will AOE-proc like ~5 times on each target?

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