Season 3 PBE: First Impressions

With the release of numerous changes on the PBE last night, our writing team was unleashed on to the Rift, to put the changes through their paces. Below the bloggers speak their mind on the changes. Make sure to leave your comments below on what you think of the changes.

 

Elementz

Too many item changes, will be very difficult to balance the game. DFG OP - amazing single target Vlad ulti. Veigar and Syndra gonna have a heyday. Masteries could use some more changing still. Overall the feel is pointed in the right direction just off a bit it seems. The jungle is okay. Leashing is weird and a bit harder now. Overall meh - I can get used to it.

Read on for more insights!

Hashinshin

Were the play-testers 7 mages, 2 ADs, and a guy who hates bruisers?

Emeraldw

I like what I have seen, tried and read.  Some of the new AP items are amazing and I feel like all AP Carries scale really well now.  Expect nerfs to those AP's that already do I say.  The new support items have me smiling.  One to cleanse my AD, another to basically allow another champion (maybe even me!) initiate team fights.  One prediction someone made was that Season 3 was going to be more aggressive and I cannot disagree.  Offensive items are overall cheaper and small defensive items (like chain vests) cost more.  This is going to be a wild ride.

Tuck359

After playing on the PBE, the new shop and HUD changes are welcome additions. They are moving in the right direction and I like a lot of the mastery changes they tweaked them but didn't completely overhaul the trees as I thought might happen.

As for items, it's a whole slew of new stuff ranging from ridiculously strong (new DFG is bonkers, all AP items in general very strong), to a lot of weird attack speed items that seem situational at best (Statikk Shiv). Tanks seem a bit underwhelming with the defensive item adjustments but Blade of the Ruined King and Black Cleaver as both excellent addition to bruiser damage items. I think items definitely need some tweaking with this much coming out it's going to be difficult to balance it.

I haven't gotten to experience the jungle firsthand, but the new jungle items seem quite good but I'll leave the bulk of the jungle impressions to Stonewall!

DiffTheEnder

The item rework will bring in a drastic change to the way the game is played. I'm especially excited for the support items and I think they may bring back the roaming meta - one can only wait and see.
The jungle rework I particularly enjoy - purely because my AP carry will not be taking half my jungle now - not early on anyway. So more creeps for me - yay!
The masteries changes seem strong. You now have more options and it feels like you can have stronger options for your role thanks to masteries. The % increase in resistances and the attack speed for every crit seem particularly effective.

 

So that's what our writing team thinks about the changes. We've heard enough of these bloggers chatter on. Let's hear what you think of the changes - are they yay or nay?

43

Comments

  • #43 Piotrje

    I think this changes will be good for gameplay, because sometimes this games is boring now :P

  • #38 FleurDeLiz

    Hash just marmalade everyone but bruisers are getting fun new toys to play with.

    Also marmalade that itemizing early resistances isn't going to be as easy.

  • #36 Douggie

    This is gonna take a lot of getting used too. Damage just feels so high right now.  The go to defense is going to be health as resistances are expensive at the moment, harsh damage is everywhere and relatively cheap, and it feels like the defense tree is non existent.  This is definitely gearing towards more aggressive and active play and is going to take a lot of time to adjust.

    Side Note: The new support is a ton of fun to play.

  • #35 Dj0z

    Quote from someone010101 »

    There was a reason why assasins got nerfed to oblivion before, why defense was cheaper then offense:

    It's not fun to die before you can even press your flash button. I predict q_q.

    This guy says some truth, however fellow RoG people, i must point out a fact that apparently went completely unnoticed: Riot said they wanted to make resistance weaker/more expensive, especially in the early game; also that because of the change in penetration order, they would reduce those aswell for balance.

    The fact is: it's a trap!

    When you carefully look at the numbers, penetration was actually reduced more than resistances, everywhere:

    -Penetration runes got nerfed, Resistance runes stay the same. Example: early game you still have at least 30 MR +same runes as before, but now it's much harder to get near 30 Mpen at that same time. Just try if you will.

    -In items, we have changes like: Null-Magic Mantle gives 4 less MR. That would be fine if Sorcerer's Shoes didn't also give 5 less Mpen. That along with the fact that high-end AP items also give less AP (see Rabadon's), reveals the failure. The same pattern goes for armor and AD items.

    -In masteries, flat resistances are lower down the tree, but if you still spend X-9-X points, you only get -1 MR & armor compared to before. However the flat penetration in Offense (which requires more points) was also lowered by 1. Even %penetration went from 10% to 8%, and now Defense tree has a new mastery boosting armor and MR by 5%, in addition to the one reducing all damage taken by 3%.

    -Last but not least, the well-advocated penetration order change isn't as great as promised at all considering these facts: 1) The advantages given by that are completely absorbed by what i said previously -- 2) Reduction effects still applies before Penetration (and it could hardly be otherwise), so flat reduction effects still give diminishing returns with %penetration.

    TL;DR: people are actually tankier and all kinds of shredding/penetrating effects are less efficient. Seriously Riot, what the heck?

    Last edited by Dj0z: 11/17/2012 2:36:50 PM
  • #39 FatsXL

    You are missing several factors here.

    1) Flat and % penetration will combine to greater effect than what is currently on live. For example a Void staff currently reduces all flat penetration by 40%. Since all the nerfs to both flat and % penetration combined total less than a 40% drop, this is a net gain.

    2) AP and AD items are dropping in price and all of those skills that reduce resistances on champions such as Amumu and Kog'Maw so far haven't been changed.

    So resistances are becoming less gold efficient while AD, AP and penetration more gold efficient. What this means is early game there might be a slight damage drop for the first few levels if you use much penetration. However damage will now more favourably scale against mitigation.

    The two primary consequences of this are that Health will be more attractive later into the game (before it wasn't, health was the real trap) & APs and Brusiers will now be able to deal more damage against tanks late game. AD carries shouldn't change much because of increase in premium on attack speed. This is definitely an improvement.

    Last edited by FatsXL: 11/17/2012 9:50:29 PM
  • #40 Dj0z

    You have some points, which is reassuring for Riot's credibility, but i think you need to look at the actual numbers from abit closer on other points.

    1) Do you realize that with Void Staff's reduced penetration and the same thing on the mastery, you cannot no longer achieve 46% penetration at all? With both, you get 40% now, which is what VS used to give by itself.

    Likewise, it is no longer possible (or very difficult/conditional) to achieve true damage from stacking flat penetration items, especially for mages. To get past the mere 30 base Mpen, before you just needed marks, 2 glyphs, and Sorcerer's shoes. Now you will be forced to add Haunting Guise or Abyssal Scepter (or make a ridiculous runepage maybe), otherwise even rune-less ranged squishies won't take your full damage.

    2) True for AD, not for AP. Every single base AP item is unchanged. Rabadon's costs 400 less, and gives 20 less AP and 5% less of total AP (which is as much as you get with the tier 5 mastery). Since an Amp Tome (20 AP) costs 435, overall it's a nerf unless they lower the cost further. I have to give you props on the unchanged champion-based shreds and penetration being more valuable now though.

     

    I don't have a problem with things like Rabadon's costing less for less stats, however if Riot wants to stay true to their claims, all they need to is adding back a little power to penetration items, not even necessarily runes & masteries. Else they achieve the exact opposite of what they said.

    And since that just crossed my mind, Health can only be more relevant if all the "expensive" armor and magic resist can still potentially be nullified, which isn't really the case right now.

    Last edited by Dj0z: 11/18/2012 12:35:30 AM
  • #41 SY23

    Theorycraft all you want, but so far on the PBE tanks disappear into thin air before they can even try to do their job. This seems due to the fact that new, very aggressive, very powerful items for APs and ADs are readily available and a tank or tanky bruiser will die many times early, thus delaying the moment real defense is acquired, all the while bursters are snowballing hard. The early advantage they've got makes a world of a difference. 

    I hope some stuff gets adjusted still.

  • #42 Dj0z

    So far on the PBE, i'm not seeing what you're describing. Mind you, i don't play ranked there, so maybe you know things i don't. Seeing all the potential of the new defensive options, i've already made an extremely annoying antimage build there, which to my surprise, actually made me very efficient vs anything that relies on CC, aswell as a complete nightmare to anything with AP.

    I don't really know what kind of very powerful items you think you've seen for APs particularly, but if you're still using the old Flash+Ignite, Triforce+Wit's End business, you should try to actually customize your build to a purpose, instead of just picking up the "only viable season 2 items" and summoner spells, thinking they're still the only viable. If that's not what you're doing, disregard this and tell me how you play your S3 bruiser.

    I have no idea what new AP item you deem worthy of comparing with the new low-cd Banshee's, Mercurial Scimitar, Runic Bulwark, Ohmwrecker, %regen Warmogs, guaranteed-proc double-duration-active Randuins, Captain/Homeguard enchants, Mikael's Crucible effect, and such; so feel free to tell me, i'd love to know. Because right now, i might just quit playing AP when this patch hits live.

    And once again, there is no early advantage, for either APs or ADs. People start with the same MR/armor as before, but everyone also starts with less penetration. As for mid/late game, defense items were "nerfed by 10-20%", but Penetration items were all nerfed by 25%. Do you see the problem now?

    Last edited by Dj0z: 11/18/2012 10:21:22 AM
  • #24 bahamutprime

    Honestly just changing the % reduction before flat reduction while meant to bring bursters back vs. squishies hurts bruisers hard. Top lane always gets the shit from old meta (ganks at lvl 2 due to stupid jungle) now they're trying to make it impossible to tank, I might have to quit top lane after this shit so yeah Hashin description seems pretty accurate.

  • #23 Waaargh

    I find it interesting middle tier items that could not be build upon any furhter are getting upgrades. That will rock the item meta the most. Look at QSS, and many others that very considered short sighted investments, or just situational.

  • #22 FrozIgnition

    New active items and melee/range different values are getting closer to DotA, it seems.

  • #19 CuddleBunni

    To be completely honest, the new DFG sounds super OP, but now that it is almost as expensive as Deathcap, I think it is a situational option. Not counting the active, if your spell has a .8 AP ratio, it will do +20% damage with the Deathcap passive all the time, not just for those 4 seconds, therefore making Deathcap better for long fights, especially with multiple targets.

    DFG however, will be GREAT on assassins and champions that have high base damage and low ratios, not to mention the active adding a spell that does pretty decent damage.

    But hey, what am I rambling about, just get both!

  • #20 clutz1

    Quote from CuddleBunni »

    To be completely honest, the new DFG sounds super OP, but now that it is almost as expensive as Deathcap, I think it is a situational option. Not counting the active, if your spell has a .8 AP ratio, it will do +20% damage with the Deathcap passive all the time, not just for those 4 seconds, therefore making Deathcap better for long fights, especially with multiple targets.

    DFG however, will be GREAT on assassins and champions that have high base damage and low ratios, not to mention the active adding a spell that does pretty decent damage.

    But hey, what am I rambling about, just get both!

    DFG is a per se imba item IMO. In other words, to have it in the game it either has to be too weak to be relevant, or all the AP characters need to be balanced around the assumption that they have it. It is essentially giving every AP char a 2nd ult.

  • #32 Dj0z

    Removing 15% of the target's max health isn't OP in any way, just look at all these champions with %HP damage abilities. Hell, Vayne does that every 3 hits, as true damage, from probably the same range.

    Now for the temporary damage increase counting as a 2nd ult, this is entirely true. Just like Youmuu's Ghostblade active ever was. Now there's also even Sword of the Divine, which will probably stand as the ranged AD counterpart.

    So what are we seeing there? The possibility to invest in short-duration DPS boost items instead of more passive damage increase, for players or team comps who would aim for short impacting fights (as opposed to constant advantageous trading). And said option are proposed for Every type of champion. You could even argue that supports got that too, with Mikael's.

    So what the hell are you talking about?

  • #33 lazorexplosion

    Which means the DFG does as approximately as much damage as DCap.... WITHOUT considering the 15% CDR on top of that and the 15% health damage on top of that, both of which you forgot. That's why the new DFG is crazy good.

     

  • #18 clutz1

    What does Hash even want? Bul Kathos Blade?

  • #17 Nocturnal_Death

    >_> fair enough to say i haven't had time to try out any of the new stuff but o_o what improved on syndra so much that she actually is somewhat ok now o_o

  • #21 Emeraldw

    Syndra's kit was a mess of bugs and being very unfriendly.  They fixed all that.  Same thing happened with Rengar

  • #15 someone010101

    There was a reason why assasins got nerfed to oblivion before, why defense was cheaper then offense:

    It's not fun to die before you can even press your flash button. I predict q_q.

    Last edited by someone010101: 11/17/2012 8:45:27 AM
  • #30 TheFaller

    well, its not fun to commit into a kill just to have your target flash away.

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