PBE Changes for 11/20 and The News Roundup: Very Small New Champion Tease and Objective Timers

RoG Article Recap


PBE Changes for 11/20

IMPORTANT: Keep in mind this information is from the PBE and is also datamined. Anything can change.

Champions

  • Hecarim
    • Base Damage is now 56 (+ 3.2 ) up from Damage: 53 (+ 3 )
  • Rammus
    • Base armor is now Armor: 21 (+ 3.8 ), up from Armor: 17 (+ 3.8 )
    • Base Health Per 5 Sec is now 7 (+ 0.55 ), up from 5 (+ 0.55 )
  • Sejuani
    • Base armor is now 20.5 (+ 3.5 ), up from 17.5 (+ 3.5 )
    • [W] - Northern Winds: now lasts for 6 seconds (up from 5)
  • Nautilus
    • [W] - Titan's Wrath: now shields for 100/150/200/250/300 (up from 80/130/180/230/280 )
  • Nami
    • [Q] - Aqua Prison: Range is now 875, up from 825

Items

  • Blackfire Torch
    • Tooltip now lists that it can have up to 18 charges
  • Frozen Fist name has been changed to Iceborn Gauntlet
  • Kage's Last Breath name has been changed to Shard of True Ice
  • Oracle's Extract
    • Now costs 250, down from 400
  • Spirit Stone
    • Damage dealt to monster is now increased by 20% (up from 15%)
  • Spirit of the Ancient Golem
    • Damage dealt to monster is now increased by 25% (up from 20%)
  • Spirit of the Elder Lizard
    • Damage dealt to monster is now increased by 25% (up from 20%)
  • Spirit of the Spectral Wraith
    • now gives +40 AP, up from 30
    • now gives 10 mp5, down from 15
    • now has 10% cooldown reduction, down from 15
    • Damage dealt to monster is now increased by 25% (up from 20%)
    • Cost is now 400, down from 600
    • No longer is built from Fiendish Codex, now built from Hextech revolver (Other item remains same)
  • The Black Cleaver
    • now gives 15 armor penetration, up from 10
  • The Bloodthirster
    • Now costs 650, down from 1000
  • The Brutalizer
    • now gives 15 armor penetration, up from 10
  • Thornmail
    • now costs 1180, up from 760
    • now requires a cloth armor instead of a chain vest (so one cloth armor and one chain vest now)
  • Wraith Collar name has been changed to Twin Shadows
  • Youmuu's Ghostblade
    • now gives +20 Armor Penetration, up from 15

Click the "Spoiler" button below to view the diff table with all the item text.

Blackfire Torch
Blackfire Torch

+70 Ability Power
+250
Health

UNIQUE
Passive: +15% Cooldown Reduction
UNIQUE
Passive - Eyes of Pain: +15 Magic Penetration
UNIQUE
Passive: Your spells burn for an additional 3.5% of the target champion's maximum Health in magic damage over 2 seconds.Each second burned consumes a charge.Charges are generated when not in use.

(
Magic Penetration helps you deal more magic damage to enemies with high Magic Resistance.% Magic Penetration is applied before Flat Magic Penetration when calculating damage.Unique Passives with the same name do not stack.)

Cost:
700
Blackfire Torch

+70 Ability Power
+250
Health

UNIQUE
Passive: +15% Cooldown Reduction
UNIQUE
Passive - Eyes of Pain: +15 Magic Penetration
UNIQUE
Passive: Your spells burn for an additional 3.5% of the target champion's maximum Health in magic damage over 2 seconds.Each second burned consumes a charge.Up to 18 charges are generated when not in use.

(
Magic Penetration helps you deal more magic damage to enemies with high Magic Resistance.% Magic Penetration is applied before Flat Magic Penetration when calculating damage.Unique Passives with the same name do not stack.)

Cost:
700
Frozen Fist
Frozen Fist

+40 Ability Power
+500 Mana
+60 Armor
+15% Cooldown Reduction

UNIQUE Passive - Spellblade: After using an ability, your next basic attack deals bonus physical damage equal to 125% of your base Attack Damage to surrounding enemies and creates a field for 3 seconds that slows enemies inside by 35% - 2 second cooldown.

Cost: 640
  Was renamed to Iceborn Gauntlet (see below)
Iceborn Gauntlet
  Iceborn Gauntlet

+40 Ability Power
+500 Mana
+60 Armor
+15% Cooldown Reduction

UNIQUE Passive - Spellblade: After using an ability, your next basic attack deals bonus physical damage equal to 125% of your base Attack Damage to surrounding enemies and creates a field for 3 seconds that slows enemies inside by 35% - 2 second cooldown.

Cost: 640
Kage's Last Breath
Kage's Last Breath

+45 Ability Power

UNIQUE Passive - Lucky Shadow: Gain an additional 4 Gold every 10 seconds.
UNIQUE Aura - Mana Warp: Nearby allied champions gain 6 Mana Regen per 5 seconds.
UNIQUE Active: Surrounds an ally with a blizzard for 4 seconds that slows nearby enemy movement speed by 30% - 60 second cooldown.

Cost: 535
 Was renamed to Shard of True Ice (see below)
Oracle's Extract
Oracle's Extract

Click to Consume: Grants detection of nearby invisible units for up to 5 minutes or until your champion dies.

Cost:
400
Oracle's Extract

Click to Consume: Grants detection of nearby invisible units for up to 5 minutes or until your champion dies.

Cost:
250
Shard of True Ice
  Shard of True Ice

+45 Ability Power

UNIQUE Passive - Lucky Shadow: Gain an additional 4 Gold every 10 seconds.
UNIQUE Aura - Mana Warp: Nearby allied champions gain 6 Mana Regen per 5 seconds.
UNIQUE Active: Surrounds an ally with a blizzard for 4 seconds that slows nearby enemy movement speed by 30% - 60 second cooldown.

Cost: 535
Spirit Stone
Spirit Stone

+14 Health Regen per 5 seconds
+7
Mana Regen per 5 seconds

UNIQUE
Passive - Butcher: Damage dealt to monsters increased by 15%.
UNIQUE
Passive - Rend: Basic attacks deal 10 bonus true damage to monsters.

(
Unique Passives or Actives with the same name don't stack.)

Cost:
140
Spirit Stone

+14 Health Regen per 5 seconds
+7
Mana Regen per 5 seconds

UNIQUE
Passive - Butcher: Damage dealt to monsters increased by 20%.
UNIQUE
Passive - Rend: Basic attacks deal 10 bonus true damage to monsters.

(
Unique Passives or Actives with the same name don't stack.)

Cost:
140
Spirit of the Ancient Golem
Spirit of the Ancient Golem

+500 Health
+30
Armor
+14
Health Regen per 5 seconds
+7
Mana Regen per 5 seconds

UNIQUE
Passive - Butcher: Damage dealt to monsters increased by 20%.
UNIQUE
Passive - Tenacity: The durations of stuns,slows,taunts,fears,silences,blinds,and immobilizes are reduced by 35%.

Cost:
600
Spirit of the Ancient Golem

+500 Health
+30
Armor
+14
Health Regen per 5 seconds
+7
Mana Regen per 5 seconds

UNIQUE
Passive - Butcher: Damage dealt to monsters increased by 25%.
UNIQUE
Passive - Tenacity: The durations of stuns,slows,taunts,fears,silences,blinds,and immobilizes are reduced by 35%.

Cost:
600
Spirit of the Elder Lizard
Spirit of the Elder Lizard

+50 Attack Damage
+14
Health Regen per 5 seconds
+7
Mana Regen per 5 seconds

UNIQUE
Passive - Butcher: Damage dealt to monsters increased by 20%.
UNIQUE
Passive - Incinerate: Basic attacks and non-periodic spell damage burn the target for 15-66 (based on level)true damage over 3 seconds.

Cost:
725
Spirit of the Elder Lizard

+50 Attack Damage
+14
Health Regen per 5 seconds
+7
Mana Regen per 5 seconds

UNIQUE
Passive - Butcher: Damage dealt to monsters increased by 25%.
UNIQUE
Passive - Incinerate: Basic attacks and non-periodic spell damage burn the target for 15-66 (based on level)true damage over 3 seconds.

Cost:
725
Spirit of the Spectral Wraith
Spirit of the Spectral Wraith

+30 Ability Power
+15
Mana Regen per 5 seconds

UNIQUE
Passive: +20% Spell Vamp
UNIQUE
Passive: +15% Cooldown Reduction
UNIQUE
Passive - Butcher: Damage dealt to monsters increased by 20%.

Cost:
600
Spirit of the Spectral Wraith

+40 Ability Power
+10
Mana Regen per 5 seconds

UNIQUE
Passive: +20% Spell Vamp
UNIQUE
Passive: +10% Cooldown Reduction
UNIQUE
Passive - Butcher: Damage dealt to monsters increased by 25%.

Cost:
400
The Black Cleaver
The Black Cleaver

+250 Health
+50
Attack Damage
+10%
Cooldown Reduction
+10
Armor Penetration

Passive:
Dealing physical damage to an enemy champion reduces their Armor by 7.5% for 4 seconds.This effect stacks up to 4 times.

Cost:
1188
The Black Cleaver

+250 Health
+50
Attack Damage
+10%
Cooldown Reduction
+15
Armor Penetration

Passive:
Dealing physical damage to an enemy champion reduces their Armor by 7.5% for 4 seconds.This effect stacks up to 4 times.

Cost:
1188
The Bloodthirster
The Bloodthirster

+70 Attack Damage
+12%
Life Steal

Passive:
Gains 1 stack per kill,up to a maximum of 30.Each stack grants +1 Attack Damage and +0.2% Life Steal (max: +30 Attack Damage and +6% Life Steal).Half of the current stacks are lost upon death.

Cost:
1000
The Bloodthirster

+70 Attack Damage
+12%
Life Steal

Passive:
Gains 1 stack per kill,up to a maximum of 30.Each stack grants +1 Attack Damage and +0.2% Life Steal (max: +30 Attack Damage and +6% Life Steal).Half of the current stacks are lost upon death.

Cost:
650
The Brutalizer
The Brutalizer

+25 Attack Damage

UNIQUE
Passive: +10% Cooldown Reduction
UNIQUE
Passive: +10 Armor Penetration

(
Armor Penetration allows you to deal more physical damage to high Armored targets.% Armor Penetration is applied before Flat Armor Penetration when calculating damage.)

Cost:
537
The Brutalizer

+25 Attack Damage

UNIQUE
Passive: +10% Cooldown Reduction
UNIQUE
Passive: +15 Armor Penetration

(
Armor Penetration allows you to deal more physical damage to high Armored targets.% Armor Penetration is applied before Flat Armor Penetration when calculating damage.)

Cost:
537
Thornmail
Thornmail

+100 Armor

UNIQUE
Passive: On being hit by basic attacks,returns 30% of damage taken as magic damage.

Cost:
760
Thornmail

+100 Armor

UNIQUE
Passive: On being hit by basic attacks,returns 30% of damage taken as magic damage.

Cost:
1180
Twin Shadows
  Twin Shadows

+50 Ability Power
+30 Magic Resistance
+5% Movement Speed

UNIQUE Active - Hunt: Summons up to 2 invulnerable ghosts for 6 seconds to seek the two nearest enemy champions. If they touch an enemy champion, they slow his Movement Speed by 40% and reveal him for 2.5 seconds - 120 second cooldown.

Cost: 735
Wraith Collar
Wraith Collar

+50 Ability Power
+30 Magic Resistance
+5% Movement Speed

UNIQUE Active - Hunt: Summons 2 invulnerable ghosts for 6 seconds to seek the two nearest enemy champions. If they touch an enemy champion, they slow his Movement Speed by 40% and reveal him for 2.5 seconds - 120 second cooldown.

Cost: 735
 was renamed to twin shadows, see above
Youmuu's Ghostblade
Youmuu's Ghostblade

+30 Attack Damage
+15%
Critical Strike Chance
+10%
Cooldown Reduction

UNIQUE
Passive: +15 Armor Penetration
UNIQUE
Active: Gain 20% Movement Speed and 40% Attack Speed for 6 seconds (4 seconds if you're ranged)- 45 second cooldown.

Cost:
563
Youmuu's Ghostblade

+30 Attack Damage
+15%
Critical Strike Chance
+10%
Cooldown Reduction
+20
Armor Penetration

UNIQUE
Active: Gain 20% Movement Speed and 40% Attack Speed for 6 seconds (4 seconds if you're ranged)- 45 second cooldown.

Cost:
563

Archlight Varus Now Active on PBE

Though not new if you have been keeping up with our patch posts. Archlight Varus is officially available on the PBE now. If you missed the skin preview, you can view it below now.


New Red and Blue Buff Graphics

It looks like the Red and Blue buff have new graphics. 


 New Scoreboard


Very Small New Champion Tease

We will be seeing one more champion before the end of the year. Morello hit the forums with a bit of a tease of this champions archetype.

Could not agree more here - big hole in this archetype, and one of my favorites. Makes me think of Starbuck from Battlestar Galactica. 

You will be very pleased with our final release of the year 

the problem with this, is you said archetype, as if there was only one mentioned :P
I mean badass female, specifically - more in the Starbuck direction for sure.

 Crs Saintvicious also had a little tease on twitter

Nami is fun but the champ after her might be my favorite league champ yet :)


Objective Timers

Morello hit the forums talking about possible timers when you have vision of a objective that was taken.

I agree with this, because "counting and accounting" aren't really good skill differentiators on objectives. This is something I'd like to add, but again, only if you have vision when the objective is taken (and it already pops the icon back on the map if you ever wiped the icon by scouting it).

Inb4 strawmen about skill of counting 

 

33

Comments

  • #32 exacerberus

    Well, they promised buffs to the junglers that had been hurt the most by the jungle changes and/or left behind back in S2. I'm quite happy with the changes to Sejuani, Nautilus, Rammus and Hecarim, even if Riot could have used a bit more.

    I'd so much like to have a Spirit of the Spectal Wraich item for AP champs (AP + SpellVamp + CDR)...

    Also, AD caster itemization buffs... (coincidence)?

  • #18 Trollbogan

    Lol i though he was talking about the actual Starbuck, not the remade.

  • #13 karolisas

    Riot is stupid, first nerfs rammus, then buff him to the same shit that was before! GOD DAMN LOGIC riot just makes them self more job to do

  • #15 I4Q

    +4 Armor and +2 Hp/5

    Wow.. he truly must be the best character in the game now, just unheard of..

  • #16 Bozar

    Those buffs are obviously in response to the increased jungle difficulty.

    Just to make their early game a bit smoother.

  • #21 Tortferngatr

    Rammus ended up having too much ganking power in the Season 2 jungle.

    In the Season 3 jungle, like Nautilus, he needed the buffs to stay relevant.

  • #22 OuterRaven

    Yea, the buffs have absolutely NOTHING to do with the fact that the jungle is harder. Nope, nothing at all...

  • #11 ghetifal

    Here's really the problem of objective timers. It was one of the key measures of "macro" awareness in the game. Why not have autopings when enemy champion enters or leaves minimap vision? After all, is it really a test of skill to have wide enough peripheral vision to see that kind of thing? And have an alarm that not only lets you know dragon is up, but remind your team that its time to go there cuz they might be sneaking it. And also have a tooltip pop up saying you should have 3 push top right now because you aren't in range to contest dragon. Oh, and give us the cooldown timers on the other team. Accounting isn't a measure of skill right? Give us flash timers, oh, and, why not just show the cd time on every skill of enemy champ if you click on them.

     

    Yeah, objective timers are that ridiculous. If a player has the multitasking to just type any of this info in team chat, let them use that to their advantage against more narrowly focused, less skilled players.

  • #12 Dj0z

    Objective timers would reward investment in warding/scouting, increase team coordination at every level, and reduce unnecessary teamchatting.

    With your exaggeration logic, we might aswell remove buff/debuff status icons, sight of enemy inventories, warnings that turrets/inhibitors have been destroyed and such things, just because a skilled player can figure most of it out by watching minimap and ally/enemy stats by clicking them, it's that senseless.

  • #20 Gameguy301
    Ghetifals examples are good while djoz examples are bad let's go over why.

    Ghetfals examples are players being spoon fed information that is already available, things like spawn timers, cool downs, and map positioning are all thing you should know riot is spoon-feeding you information because you are too new/ bad / lazy to figure it out yourself. This is adding a new far too apparent source of information that you already had access to.

    Djoz examples Re bad because they take away Information that not even the best players could figure out for themselves, what itms a person has purchased can only be guessed at without being displayed, buffs and debuffs cannot be tracked without being displayed. That is takeing away the ONLY source of information.

    For an analogy to work it must be parallel please try again.

    Keeping a timer in your head is easy jungle long enough and you just know when a camp is coming back by intuition, I view timers as unnecessary hand holding.
    Last edited by Gameguy301: 11/21/2012 9:48:09 AM
  • #23 Dj0z

    If you see someone with the youmuu's particle on them they have it, same for shurelya's and all actives. If someone attacks you and procs an AoE slow they have iceborn gauntlet. If you start burning and be slowed when they attack that's red buff.

    If you had nothing better to do you could just memorize your opponent's initial stats and deduce what they bought when they come back from shop, because of the exact amount of stats they gained since you're so experienced that you know exactly the stats every item gives.

    You also know how much they cost because you counted their cs, since counting unnecessarily tedious information is a LoL skill now apparently.

     

    Those examples are all ridiculously exaggerated on purpose, but so were ghetfal's. With his logic we'd be removing every piece of data that could possibly make the life of players both easier and looking less like a math contest than a game.

    Like enemy cs, score, warning when turret started to focus you (a recent addition, i guess that shows Riot's opinion on the matter), warning that WW is seeing you because of low HP, that you're being revealed because you stepped on a trap/shroom, or that you're going to take heavy damage because you got DFG'ed/vlad-ulted/zed-ulted, or even the particle to let you know Karthus ult is gonna land (you can see him channel since you're so globally aware, right?).

    On that specific point, DotA's Zeus' ult is the same without a warning or even channel time ("only source of information"). You can't easily shield or dodge even you had that spellshield or whatever ready. Things like this are why LoL is a player-friendly (some even say "casual") game with a much smoother learning curve, and why it appeals to so many players of all levels of skill.

    Feel free to go back to the much more hardcore elder, Defense of the Ancients, where you can enjoy gold loss on death among other things, because dying is proof of lack of skill so the game should make you frustrated for that, right? Also if you die with "oracle" it falls on the ground and the enemy picks it up. Same for the biggest AD item in the game, get skill or offer free massive damage to the enemy carry.

    Once again feel free to go, i'm staying since i've already made my choice between hardcore tryharding, and fun.

  • #26 Gameguy301
    Your familiar with the slippery slope argument right? Long story short it's give them an inch and they'll take a mile. I was sort of nervous but accepting of the corpse map icons and the dragon / baron callouts, but this is the biggest step they've taken by a long shot. Which bring us back to ghetifals original question. How far are you going to let riot baby you before it finally becomes too much?

    How about displaying gold earned and gold held by the enemy, ultimate cool down indicators for enemies just like teammates, how about rings to display auto attack and spell ranges I mean why memories? Summoner spell cool downs in the tab menu. They could even put timers on enemy wards that you witness, rings for their vision range. Pathing prediction for enemies that enter fog of war. When is it too much how far will it go?

    Saying no this is too much hand holding, won't suddenly remove AP, ability scaling, increase CC duration, implement str, dex, int, secret shops, re arrange the items and change all champions to heroes, it wont bring back deny, or curlers or rearange the map. Saying enough isenouph won't make this game dota. Your not dumb eniuph to believe that don't act like you are.
    Last edited by Gameguy301: 11/21/2012 4:20:49 PM
  • #27 Dj0z

    One of the reasons the DotA community was so hated by every non-DotA player on W3 (other than monopolizing the custom games list) was because of the steep learning curve. As a LoL player you have to assimilate a deceptively huge amount of information to even start being able to play better than a bot.

    That is the reason why there's not 1, but 2 tutorials before new players get to an actual game. And that is before they start slowly learning every ability for every champion and every item in the game, not to mention the meta.

    Back to DotA: whenever someone joined a DotA game for the first time, they were kicked in the first place, because the client would show that they download the map, which automatically meant that they were "noobs". So they had to get it externally, and when ingame, were immediately identified as noobs and strongly encouraged to GTFO of the game or kill themselves.

    TL;DR: Being able to play LoL decently is already a long way despite the formidable effort Riot has put into making access way easier than DotA, and it would be taking steps backwards to change this design philosophy.

    Timers are already displayed in spectator mode, and so is enemy/team gold, and honestly i never found that broken. If anything, not displaying gold allows players who are behind to not realize how much, and keep their hopes high, which overall favorizes play attempts. Timers are nothing that crucial, and once again encourages players to ward & use CV instead of never playing Support and hoping all intelligence falls from the sky and is due to their glorious selves.

    Basically it promotes playing more thoughtfully (read "better"), so i wouldn't mind. Why does it look so wrong to you guys anyways? It's not like it's an insult to anyone's skills really. It's like placing a camera in a spying game and getting more comfortable intel to work with, from that tactical investment.

  • #28 ohGr

    I fail to see how the Baron/Dragon callouts can be viewed as anything bad. There are only two possible scenarios there.

    1) You're with a team on skype, and one of the big bads dies, someone calls it over skype.

    2) You're solo Q, someone kills it and says nothing. Despite it being your teams kill, you lost info you would have had due to solo Q players being generally lazy. You still have it in that you'll see the skull icon repop, but you lost a minor edge due to info being lost.

    That was the point of the callouts, to remove semi trivial comments having to be made in chat in solo Q. It had absolutely no impact on team 5v5's.

    Nor would objective timers. Pro teams were already doing that and had a counter. Having to type it in team chat is more of a skill than simply checking an ingame timer? Artificial skill bar much?

  • #29 TreeBurrow

    I remember trying to get into DoTa... I really liked the game, but people were such jerks, if you didn't know the exact price of every single abbreviated item, they would kick you... I had to pretend I had knowledge which I didn't have by writing down all the prices, because I wasn't able to gain that knowledge myself without actually playing the game and learning, because the DoTa community was so horrible... I got into games simple by having a list of all the items, all the abbreviations and all the prices, from there I was able to practise the actual skills of playing the game... But without taking that initial false step and lying about my own knowledge of the (rather complex) game I wouldn't have been allowed in... DoTa was a really tight-knit community and you had to lie to become accepted, if you screwed up, you got kicked back out... It was a vicious cycle and wasn't noob friendly in the slightest...

  • #30 Gameguy301
    But timers for red blue dragon baron would be the exact opposite of skilled play. Letting the timers do all the work for you means you can just go through the motions without thought and do just as we'll now as people who bothered to learn to keep track in their head. I don't think you realize what's on the table, over the course of season 1 and season 2 teams slowly began to time their objectives, but it wasn't until M5 swept IEM Keiv that teams truly realized the importance of timing everything all the time. Just a month after words and the best teams in the world were timing everything, the jungler would ward 2 minutes in advance and the laners would shoce their lane a few seconds early and roam to the objective. Think about that it took the best teams in the world 2 years to figure out aggressive objective based play using timing, and now any joe blow Mc900elo can do just the same. in my own personal experience as a jungler main nothing even comes close to the success braught when i started timing my win rate with an agressive timing focused udyr is 80%. Timing is a skill, you don't want to hear that but it is I'd say the difference between a jungled that times an one that does not is a solid 200 elo, and for ranked 5 man teams if you time the difference is even larger. I'm not ok with people shutting off their brains an using the jungled timing guided tour and doing what took 2 years to develop by the best in the world.
  • #31 Dj0z

    Since i'm starting to wonder why we are even arguing about that since none of us works at Riot AFAIK, i'm just going to add this: you sound like people who got out of, say, high school, where they were taught Y, and then they realize that their younger siblings are now taught Y+Z. And that leaves a bad impression of wasted time, or of unfair easyness.

    If that is the case, you better start getting over it already dude, that's just the way it goes: pioneers and elders get to do all the hard work and discoveries, only to see those come after them exploit said results and enjoy them from the start, off the work of others. There are players starting LoL right now, and they'll learn way faster than you or me did, because there's more guides and streams etc. We just gotta get over it.

    Anyways i have stated my opinion and don't have any more to say on the topic, so until Riot brings it up if ever, i'm out.

  • #33 exacerberus

     Quote from Gameguy301»

    Your familiar with the slippery slope argument right? Long story short it's give them an inch and they'll take a mile. I was sort of nervous but accepting of the corpse map icons and the dragon / baron callouts, but this is the biggest step they've taken by a long shot. Which bring us back to ghetifals original question. How far are you going to let riot baby you before it finally becomes too much?

    How about displaying gold earned and gold held by the enemy, ultimate cool down indicators for enemies just like teammates, how about rings to display auto attack and spell ranges I mean why memories? Summoner spell cool downs in the tab menu. They could even put timers on enemy wards that you witness, rings for their vision range. Pathing prediction for enemies that enter fog of war. When is it too much how far will it go?

    Saying no this is too much hand holding, won't suddenly remove AP, ability scaling, increase CC duration, implement str, dex, int, secret shops, re arrange the items and change all champions to heroes, it wont bring back deny, or curlers or rearange the map. Saying enough isenouph won't make this game dota. Your not dumb eniuph to believe that don't act like you are.

    Overall I have to agree -to a certain extent- with your points, even if you back them up with a bit too much of elitism and enforce the "old school approach" to the rules in an exceedingly authoritarian way.

    Quote from ohGr »

    I fail to see how the Baron/Dragon callouts can be viewed as anything bad. There are only two possible scenarios there.

    1) You're with a team on skype, and one of the big bads dies, someone calls it over skype.

    2) You're solo Q, someone kills it and says nothing. Despite it being your teams kill, you lost info you would have had due to solo Q players being generally lazy. You still have it in that you'll see the skull icon repop, but you lost a minor edge due to info being lost.

    That was the point of the callouts, to remove semi trivial comments having to be made in chat in solo Q. It had absolutely no impact on team 5v5's.

    Nor would objective timers. Pro teams were already doing that and had a counter. Having to type it in team chat is more of a skill than simply checking an ingame timer? Artificial skill bar much?

    Well, you can easily infer the slain time of Baron, Lizard and Golem by keeping track of the expiration time of the buff on its holders. Blessing of the Ancient Golem/Lizard Elder last 2,5 mins (3 if you or the target have Runic Affinity), so for Golem/Lizard you just have to count 150 seconds (120 if you have RA mastery or you assume the buff holder has it) from when the buff wears off, whilst for Baron the respawn time is always 3 mins after the buff wears off (buff lasts 4 mins, Baron respawn timer is 7 and RA mastery doesn't work with it). About the Dragon ofc there's no buff to track down, so yeah, you have to note down the timer when he gets slain or you won't be able to deduce it even if your team actually killed him or had vision in that moment.

    Anyway you're right, everyone half decent is already keeping track of the respawn timers, so to be honest automated timers would just lessen the chat micromanagement (imho).

    Last edited by exacerberus: 11/22/2012 12:23:17 AM
  • #24 brainsickhater

    I don't have a problem with the buff timers. All it does is give you info you already have access to.  League of Legends sets itself apart from DotA by eliminating many tedious tasks that are not exceptionally difficult, but take time to learn and thus greatly increasing the learning curve of the game.  The reason why LoL is more successful is because they have made the game more accessible and removed superflous aspects of the game that are added merely for more difficulty.  There are far more important parts of playing a MoBA game that already make it difficult.  I.e. learning the skillsets and playstyles of every champ and learning how to play with and against them.  Learning how to position yourself during teamfights, how to play a lane matchup, etc.

  • #9 ghetifal

    Really? Objective timers? Please no. The less there is for a player to do, the less there is to differentiate players, and the less fun the game is.

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