The News Roundup: Christmas Katarina's Recall Animation "Recalled", Nidalee Visual Rework Date, and More

RoG Article Recap


Christmas Katarina's Recall Animation "Recalled"

After an outcry from the community the 'sexy' recall animation of the new katarina skin is getting removed

They can keep making sexy skins, but Katarina is a bad-ass assassin. Not a stripper.
You’re right. This doesn’t really fit with her thematically, and it’s too much. We’ll be removing it.

I need to be clear about something here: the reason we're removing it (and make no mistake, we are) is because there's a lot of places where we're happy to do that, as you guys have noticed, but this skin was not the right place for this sort of thing.

Nidalee has a spear, easily a pole. She's also generally closely related to "hot night elf chick" and has some innate *** appeal to her - pole dance is awesome here.

Katarina in Reindeer ears with a pole dance is just off. It's not about right and wrong, it's not about sensitivity, it's about "what makes sense with this content?"

If you want to think there's some PC police that guide our hand, I can't stop you, but do a quick search on our thoughts to the contrary of this (go look in the spider queen or Nami threads) you'll find that we normally go forward with it when we believe it's the right choice for the champ or skin. In this case, it's just not.

Let me slow down and give you a more nuanced explanation herd (I tend to get caught up in the rapid-fire of volume posts coming in and post too quickly to fully communicate the intended thought):

Let's take a look at two sexy female champions, using their bases as an example: Miss Fortune andKatarina.

Miss Fortune Over-the-top pirate hunter. Outwardly sexualized to a point of character definition. "****ty" personality, "hot girl."

Katarina Deadly, sadistic dagger assassin. Sleek, quick and deadly. Shows cleavage and midriff to make attractive, but not seductive personality-wise. Keeps it sleek and quick - not a lot of adornment.

These characters are both really sexy from a proportions and clothing standpoint (equally so in a lot of ways). However, Miss Fortune's base should blast you with sexuality and never conserve on it - it's important to everything she is designed to be.

Katarina is generally sexy as an aside, not as a primary motivator. She's a cool assassin either way, having her be hot just makes her generally more visually appealing. Sexiness is secondary to cool.

You can do the same thin on Kitty Kat Katarina and the Christmas Katarina skin. Kitty Kat Kat is "that ****ty costume on Halloween" start to finish. Christmas Kat uses more Christmas tropes overall, and that tends to be the theme - it has sexiness because Katarina is sexy overall, but it's a secondary theme. High Command Katarina is the same in this regard (though more serious).

We may disagree, and that's OK, but this is the evaluation type we're talking about here. Maybe we sold "sexy" more than intended, maybe it's the read from the animation itself overall, but it's secondary to the character - not primary. Sexuality is more primary on Nidalee too (which is why we didn't change her pole dance on the rework).

Hopefully this makes more sense, in context. Gonna put this up front for more visibility.

Nidalee Visual Rework

Morello answered the question of when the nidalee visual rework will be rolled out

She'll be sometime in the next patch (the one with Vi).


Black Cleaver

Riot is looking for more feedback for potential changes

Alright, let's try this again.

Hypothetically, if... (ALL OF THE FOLLOWING HAPPENED)
1. Brutalizer's flat armor penetration did not stack with Black Cleaver or Ghostblade...
2. Black Cleaver's percent armor penetration were slightly nerfed...
3. And Brutalizer and BC's flat armor penetration are nerfed from 15 to 10...

Would it be OK to keep Black Cleaver on Dominion? Opinions, now!


pre-made vs non-pre-made matching

As you know, our system currently treats premades and non-premades different to make 50/50 matches between premades and non-premades. 

If you are in a premade, the game assumes you are stronger than otherwise, and gives you harder opponents. Right now, it seems we may be OVER compensating for this, so premades kinda get the shaft at mid skill levels -- but that's probably OK. At higher skill levels, we are VERY SLIGHTLY under-adjusting pre-mades. 

Additionally, our spread between WORST player and BEST player is currently 1600 points. That implies immense skill differentiation in our game because if you have a 300 point gap between a player, it means that a team of you and your 4 twins will beat 5 of that guy 85% of the time -- a major skill leap. So, you can repeat that hop 5 1/3 times currently in LoL, and the trend evidence suggests that this will increase at least another hop or two if we do nothing but let the game run. To compare, Chess has a roughly 2500 point spread, and is considered one of the most competitive games of all time.

Anyway, we ran the data, and it seems that a 5 man premade currently possesses strength adjustments as follows:

If a bunch of players randomly match, there is a 50/50 chance of winning.

If one team is now 5-man premade while the other is solos:
If the game is REALLY bad playres, this goes to 65/35
If the game is REALLY good players, this goes to 70/30
If average players, this goes to 55/45

Right now, we adjust the match difficulty for this, and it theoretically works out. 

Does this seem strange to you guys? But the data is pretty conclusive currently. It's of course highly specific to how LoL plays, it's not what I would expect in DOTA for example.

Lastly, partial premades are ineffective in some cases, and very effective in others. But it's fairly complicated, and im still investigating what the factors are.

To SUMMARIZE:

0) We currently match premades vs non-premades, but tweak the teams to make it fair by putting weak premades vs strong non-premades. This has a few flaws still, but appears viable in the data. 

1) Being the worst player vs the best player is a 1600 point gap. This is 32x the advantage of being in a premade for most players (ya rly). So, the premade skill effect in the grand scheme of things, while important and something we adjust for, is not that large.

2) Pre-mades give the most advantage when looking at REALLY bad or REALLY good players. I hypothesize that this is because:
- If really bad, it means they arent actually really bad. It's probably their really good friend smurfing with them.
- If really good, the better and better you get, the more you know how to leverage team ganks.
- If really good, you are also really devoted, and take extra steps on team comp, ventrilo access, and so forth. 
- If really good, you screw around less by picking champions that are not effective in your lineup or whatever. 
3) Pre-mades do not give nearly as large of an advantage at mid skill.
- Mid skill loosely corresponds to newb who is levelling up. It should be no surprise that people in this category don't really know what they are doing and that being a pre-made might result in you not actaully doing much better.
4) Partial pre-mades are not very effective, and only confer a slight advantage. 
-Probably because the matching system tends to give them the biggest newb, and because LoL is all about the 5 man teamfight later on -- missing a link means you get owned, espec compared to the full 5-man premade.


Season 3 Path to Pro Deadline Reminder



Summoners,

Interested in competing professionally in Season 3? Then form your ranked 5v5 teams soon, because any teams created after the December 14th deadline will be ineligible to compete (no exceptions)! For more information on the Season 3 Path to Pro, head over here

But that’s not the only way for your team to potentially compete on the world stage and become a full-time League of Legends professional. Online tournaments hosted by IPL, ESL, MLG and Dreamhack all grant a slot in the live qualifiers to their winners. Five teams have already won a spot in the live qualifiers, but more chances remain:

  • 9/17 - IPL 5 Qualifier: Won by Meat Playground
  • 12/12 - 12/20 - IPL Online (two slots): Winners TBD


For more information on the rules of each tournament, click their respective names. Good luck in your quest to go pro in Season 3!

10

Comments

  • #9 TheRogueThunder

    "They can keep making sexy skins, but Katarina is a bad-ass assassin. Not a stripper.
    You’re right. This doesn’t really fit with her thematically, and it’s too much. We’ll be removing it."

    Wait, your argument is that it doesn't fit her thematically? Why just the stripper pole? Oh right, I forgot, sexy santa lingerie and tinsel blades TOTALLY scream "bad-ass assassin", we wouldn't even think of undoing those elements on the basis of it not matching her character. 

    Honestly, this whole thing is ridiculous! The only "skin" that needs to match the character thematically is the original character design. Other skins exist just because they are fun and we want something more interesting to look at for 40 minutes straight. I don't see anyone getting all hieffy about snowman hiemerdinger! No one cares that it doesn't reflect his character, we just thought it would be funny to see a big headed snowman waddle around summonors rift. The way i see it, if you have a problem with a skin, don't buy it, that's all there is to it 

  • #8 SilkSmooth

    Yay! Nidalee in the next patch with Vi!!! Double happiness :D

  • #4 bahamutprime

    I think two of the really good player assumptions are kind of just flat out wrong

    - If really good, you are also really devoted, and take extra steps on team comp, ventrilo access, and so forth. 
    - If really good, you screw around less by picking champions that are not effective in your lineup or whatever. 

    As a Platinum player when I do normals with other plats we tend to screw around on picks and comps because they're normals its time to test things out and we assume our opponents won't be that good anyway. (My game earlier today I went Katarina top something I've never tried before and my Bud went Kennen mid, these aren't completely troll things but they're certainly not high tier for those roles.) and I've certainly done much worse, like games with amumu solo laning top etc.

    And when I queue normals with people who are in diamond they honestly just get even more screwy with their champ choices.

    So quite frankly from my experience with the many different good people I've played with these assumptions especially the second are not only wrong but the opposite is true.

    However to be fair we do usually end up against weaker people and stomp though. occasionally it's annoying if we end up against other plats+ who are "tryharding" though, so I'm not complaining about match matching but those assumptions just seem so very wrong to me.

    Last edited by bahamutprime: 12/8/2012 12:08:42 AM
  • #6 HaIfhearted

    I know what you mean.

    I'm a Dominion player, but back when we were able to pull the hidden Dominion matchmaking elo from Riot's servers I was in the top strata of Dom players (2200 elo, and I'm probably around 2400-2500 elo now due to personal improvement)

    When my team queues as a group, we usually tend to screw around and not play nearly as seriously as we would in the weekly Dominion tourney, often times both picking troll champions and putting less emphasis on objective gameplay in favor of just hunting down kills (god forbid there be a Teemo).

    We still won a ridiculous amount of the time, though. When I first started group-queuing with them, I had around a +80 win differential, and around the time we stopped group queuing it had shot up to about +250.

    I think one of the main reasons for high elo premade success is the combination of real-time communication combined with extremely high-skill players who know what to do with that information, on top of, as you said, getting matched against mostly weaker players.

    Anyway, its a rather interested thought as to *exactly* what combination of factors it is that makes higher level premades so much more powerful.

    Whatever the case may be, as long as we don't keep getting paired with the biggest derps in the matchmaking pool when we tri/quad queue, I'm happy.

    Last edited by HaIfhearted: 12/8/2012 2:06:02 AM
  • #2 Mysnomer

    Wow, what a bunch of cowards. Actually, no, that doesn't make sense. I think this is a pretty calculated move. They put the animation in with the plan that if there was enough ruckus, they'd remove it. I don't believe for one second that they had a sudden change of heart. The funny thing was, as much as I railed against Elise's design, I was totally okay with this, just like I am okay with Battle Bunny Rive, and Officer Caitlyn, and French Maid Nidalee. They're skins. Skins are the domain for Riot to play around and have goofy themes. Gentlemen, Cho'Gath, Brolaf, BB Riven, etc. etc. Christmas Katarina would just be another one of those. Hell, I might have even bought it, since I ended up collecting Katarina skins after I found out how much fun she was to play, but if there's nothing special about it, I see very little reason to buy it...

  • #3 Faren22

    Quote from Mysnomer »

    Wow, what a bunch of cowards. Actually, no, that doesn't make sense. I think this is a pretty calculated move. They put the animation in with the plan that if there was enough ruckus, they'd remove it. I don't believe for one second that they had a sudden change of heart. The funny thing was, as much as I railed against Elise's design, I was totally okay with this, just like I am okay with Battle Bunny Rive, and Officer Caitlyn, and French Maid Nidalee. They're skins. Skins are the domain for Riot to play around and have goofy themes. Gentlemen, Cho'Gath, Brolaf, BB Riven, etc. etc. Christmas Katarina would just be another one of those. Hell, I might have even bought it, since I ended up collecting Katarina skins after I found out how much fun she was to play, but if there's nothing special about it, I see very little reason to buy it...

    I'm not sure why you're so adamantly opposed to the idea that Riot employees can change their minds... and hypothesizing that they planned it just makes you sound like a conspiracy theorist, sorry. 

  • #5 Mysnomer

    Not plan as in "insidious plot," but rather, a contingency. Like, they don't really care one way or the other, and all this talk about artistic principles is just a smokescreen. They had plenty opportunity to change their minds during the long development time (we know there's a long and arduous development process because Riot themselves have told us so). So here are your choices: Riot let this through with the intention to capitalize on any controversy; Riot has not been entirely truthful when detailing their skin design process; or all the people on at the meeting when this skin came up for review were mentally out to lunch. Either way, Riot doesn't come out looking good. In the thread where Morello was posting, every critical point to his argument was countered, after which he suddenly stopped posting relevant things and started chatting up people who were friendly to him. It's not a conspiracy, just a SNAFU that they're desperately trying to sweep under the rug.

  • #1 jtimcampy

    Noooooooooooooooooooo I was looking forward to that Katarina Recall... Now that they're removing it... will there be another recall animation or are they making it back to default classic one? If they make it into default, I will be really sad...

  • #7 Gunthore

    Have to agree, I liked it. Not to mention: skins aren't canon, they don't have to fit a champ's theme...

     

  • #10 volcanman111

    you are not alone tim campy... I thought it was fine... i think the whole community needs to take a chill pill. theres one simple rule with skins guys. if you dont like it (and I'll spell it out for stupid people), DON'T. BUY. THE. SKIN.

     

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