The News Roundup: Changes to the Twisted Treeline, Loss of Control Indicators, New Lightbringer Talk, and More

Contest Reminders

 Changes to the Twisted Treeline

With the last PBE patch it looks like there was also a change to the Twisted Treeline making the center speed shrine into a relic. However the changes may not stop here as RiotNome responds. The relic will first spawn at 1 min and 55 seconds.

Trying it out as a replacement for the Speed Shrine. May or may not eventually have a jungle mob spawn at Vilemaw's position as well (until Vilemaw spawns). Speed Shrine had to go though 

The Lightbringer Discussion

With the previous PBE patch we pointed out the new passive of the Lightbringer: "UNIQUE Passive: Nearby stealthed enemy traps are revealed." RiotNome posted giving some feedback on this change.

It currently DOES include brush. Might change that if it's excessive.
I'll fix it to not reveal traps in brush unless you're in it too 

I like the changes but instead of countering a champ who is OP right now...BALANCE HIM. AP Ratios are his spells are absurd. And NERF BFT. It needs to have a TON of changes put to it. Make it so that aoe,dots only do 1/2 the burn damage. It needs to be looked at like Rylais did. AoE/traps/DoT spells need to have a lesser burn effect. It's not rocket science Riot.
He's much less problematic on Summoner's Rift, which is where champion balance is directed. We're not going to wreck him on SR because he's too strong on Dominion or Twisted Treeline. A competent Teemo player still has plenty of tools even without depending on minefields.

More Morello on Mages

If you missed the first post yesterday, you can check it out here.

Feels to me that burst mages are still being used. What is Eve, other than a burst mage? Is DFG-r-e-q-q-q-q suddenly not considered trying to burst someone?

I believe that what has happened is that magic pen got stronger, while other AP items (pretty much just deathcap) got weaker. Champions that could take advantage of magic pen/Liandry's got stronger, while champions that were reliant on deathcap for damage got weaker. As a result, there are some more viable champions, but previously strong champions like Morgana have fallen out of favor. Someone like Ahri is still acceptably strong.
Yeah - there are straight damage mages, though not as much raw bursting ( Q Q Q Q Q takes long enough to feel more sustained, but still untradable). I think mages have always had a "utility addition" feel also - they're not, nor should they be just explosive DPS like ADC in most cases. If that were the case, mages would have always been poor since day one. Is anyone using Vlad at all right now? I'm guessing not much in higher-tier games...will have to see.

Some of this is also the over-tuning of AD casters who have insane ratios due to them having terrible itemization pre-season 3, but fulfill burst functionality. Since they have items now, the upcoming nerfs will be to get them in line with the new items. 

With the Season 3 item stuff, we're bound to have to adjust some of this stuff (and in many times nerf due to the additional power we've just added to the game) as we see how it all interacts together. I think there are some issues here to adjust, but "AP is trash now" is silly; certain things are being outpaced by non-mages who fill similar functions now. Big difference in what those two conclusions mean.

Future Feature Discussion: Loss of Control Indicators

You can also check out the full discussion in our red tracker

 Hello Summoners, 

I'm Xelnath, game systems designer for Riot Games. In a nutshell, I focus on improving systems with a broad impact across all of league of legends, rather than champion or item specific issues. My team improved skill-shot rendering from fog-of-war, added recall and ward icons to the minimap and allowed you to silence players who spam emotes. 

Now we're looking further into HUD and UI improvements to better indicate that you are stunned, silenced, feared, rooted, etc. 

I'd love to hear your opinions and ideas to improve this feature.


  • What information would you like about control impairing effects in League?
  • What information do you feel is the most important to convey?
  • The least?
  • How would you like this information conveyed?
  • Where would you like it to be conveyed?

"Change is good." - Kha'zix

How about make the screen flash when you are CC'd?
Different colors for different types.
Like yellow for stun, blue for snare, etc.

Something sort of like this? (image is rough)

How about make the screen flash when you are CC'd?
Different colors for different types.
Like yellow for stun, blue for snare, etc.

Something like this? (image is rough)

Click image for larger version    Name:	stuntest.jpg  Views:	14  Size:	18.2 KB  ID:	586758

Can you make it an option. I would rather not have my screen flashing the whole time we team fight. I would rather be able to read it in a combat log or something. or like others said just make your champ/teammate change colors. or the options to choose one or all of these options.
Another idea would be sound ques. Such as a small sound for each type of cc on you.

I think an option is a great idea. 

About the sound effects, how do you feel about the in-game sound FX when your champion is hit with say, Sion's stun?

My question is: Why can't purple have the same view like the Blue side? 
Is it really that hard to flip the map around for the other side to view? 
Purple ends up with a HUGE disadvantage in my eyes. I mean, the first time I played on the purple side, I did HORRIBLY because I didn't know how limited the vision was on it.

I am open to discussing this in the future, but let's stay on topic for this thread. 

Heyo Xelnath, I have often entertained the idea of having some sort of CC-widget. Something like four differently colored spheres that light up in accordance to their respective forms of crowd control. Perhaps this could be built into the center console to allow for a quick assessment of all concurrent CC's.
I like the idea of having a custom display. That said, isn't it a bit difficult to look at your hud during an intense team fight?

BTW i have a question, maybe not related enough but i think it's your department maybe. It's about the pickpocket masterie. Can we get an icon or something, like a counter about how much money we make from it? since there's already a counter for other sources of gold (gp10, parrley, and such) it could be interesting to see the amount we make from it.
thx for your hard work 

This is coming in the very next patch, you can thank FeralPony for that.

Another big problem: CC terminology and consistency. The big issue I've seen here is the difference between a root and a snare. Is there even a difference? If not, can we just stop using the term root and update all the relevant tooltips to say snare?
Terminology is really important to me. It helps communicate ideas consistently. Here's the history:

Originally, Ryze's "Cage" was called a Snare. This conflicted in player minds with Movement Reduction effects in WoW which are traditionally called Snares.
Snares and Slows had a conflict with each other, in that they are conceptually similar. Originally, Slows had *both* movement and attack speed reductions. 
Then Amumu ult came out, which was considered a "Net" effect. Net effects were both movement impairment and auto-attack disabling. 
Net was confusing to people, because the Amumu visual wasn't as clear as we would have preferred. So it was relabeled as a "Root". 
Then along came Maokai, whose W is a dash with a movement impairment. This ability made sense to be called a "Root", but didn't include the auto-attack prevention. 
Finally, we added Rengar's E, which is a net gun, that snares, but during Ferocity becomes a movement prevention effect. 

... so that's pretty confusing. Now that we've decided to clean up terminology, here's what we're considering moving towards:

Rooted - cannot move. 
Stunned - cannot act.
Silenced - cannot use abilities.
Disarmed - cannot use auto-attacks. 
Suppressed - cannot act + cannot use summoner skills.

Slow - movement speed reductions. 
Fear - cannot act, movement uncontrollable.
Taunts - cannot act, forced to attack the taunter.
Charm - cannot act, movement towards the charmer. 
Blind - auto attacks always miss. 

That said, the Disables we would likely show via UI are:

Hard CC: Suppression, Stun, Fear, Taunt, Charm
Can't Cast: Silence
Can't Move: Rooted
Can't Attack: Disarmed

Meaning that "soft" CC, such as movement and attack speed slows, are excluded.

1: Impairing effects, to a new player, will be hard to understand. Not many would easily know the duration of a Morgana snare versus a Riven stun. I would personally like to see something visual in terms of text and timing regarding each.
Case in point...
If you are snared, I would love to see a visual indicator in words much like the different damage types receiving different colored text. Also, along the bottom of your screen, I would like to see something akin to a progress bar (I shall use the capping example from Dominion). As you are stunned, the word *STUNNED* should pop up, along with the progress bar, which takes into account your tenacity and will complete once the stun duration on your champion is completed. Should you have multiple impairments, you could just stack vertically in the down direction different effects.
Any thoughts anyone?

I like this direction. I wonder if we still need the text if we come up with something else that's universally recognizable.

is that working in all servers? pretty sure i had a game where a guy spammed the /j all game (was an aram match)....and pretty much everyone just gave up playing cause it was really annoying and it didnt stop even after muting the guy...(was on the br server)...and that was like last week....
This is coming out in the next patch, along with the ward icons. Rayanami worked on it.

How about hecarim's controlled fear?
I think it was called intimidation or something.


I think it's a decent idea.
Everyone knows progress bars, be it from downloading files on the internet to in various games. With the code already existing, all you'd need to do is modify it to show different things.
However, regarding the text...if you remove it, and all they see then is a progress bar, unless you make each effect have a unique progress bar or color with it, many people new to the game might not get what the progress bar signifies.
Want me to create a few mock up pictures of my ideas when I get home? Or perhaps continue to discuss the idea in depth?

I always love seeing other people's mockups. How about something like this?

Click image for larger version    Name:	Silencetest.jpg  Views:	38  Size:	18.1 KB  ID:	586785

Not sure about that - What if one gets multiple CC at the same time ?
Blinded ------------
Rooted ------------
Feared ------------
Stunned -----------
.. not saying its a good idea to put that much CC on one character :P

Good point. What if we just show the longest one and show icons for the shorter ones?

Hmm, that's good. Below the mana bar allows you to see it since your character is the primary focus of your vision. The symbol can show you many different effects (Silence, Fear, Snare, etc) and can be easy to see. However, my only qualm with that is whether you'll be able to assign a generic symbol to some of the more complicated effects. Perhaps a list of designs like the following...
Rooted: A champion with vines twisting around their feet.
Silenced: The message bubble you have works well.
Fear: The Terrify icon from Fiddle's kit? Perhaps a face much like 'The Scream'
Stun: Classic cartoon 'Star/Lightning Bolt/Cloud' circling? A question mark? The dazed animation of squiggles above the champion's head?
Can't Attack: A broken sword/bow? 
Taunt: A curled finger beckoning someone forward?
Charm: The heart from Ahri's kit.
Suppressed: A champion surrounded by a cage of light? This one is the hardest to come up with a good image for.
What do you think Xelnath?

I love it! I'm passing this list along to our art team for discussion.

The longest one may be a slow - While you only care about the stun 
We should definitely show stuns. Should we even bother showing slows? 

Slows happen so often and are frequently reapplied.

What about using the space in the lower left side, you can put image like the ones in the rune page but bigger and transparent.

Prioritize not by length but by CC type from hardest to softest, i.e: suppress > stun > fear/charm/terror > silence > root all the way down to slow, depending on the actions you cannot take.
That seems reasonable.

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  • #9 CptObviousSWE

    I didn't really catch the difference between snare and root, Xelnath didn't list snare in his chart.

  • #6 Edge363

    Some ad casters didn't even improve that much, but hi agree as a general rule that most need some kind of nerf. Like renekton? No need for a nerf. Riven, and garen, a little more troublesome,lol

  • #1 Benegesserit

    Some of this is also the over-tuning of AD casters who have insane ratios due to them having terrible itemization pre-season 3, but fulfill burst functionality. Since they have items now, the upcoming nerfs will be to get them in line with the new items.


    Items? As in plural? What did AD casters get besides BC?

  • #2 AngelicValnar

    Hyrda has an Active on a 10 Second Cooldown dealing 100% AD DMG AoE

  • #3 Slayer1557

    Keep in mind, the damage decays the further out it is.

  • #4 Waaargh

    Because Pantheon gets OP with Hydra :)

  • #5 Rikotsuz

    Yea hydra is working because it gives ad casters a pseudo .6ish-1.0 nuke in an area. This is actually pretty strong at just tiamat, but also gives them stronger sustain when hydra is built.

  • #7 fatovarius

    a more affordable BF sword

  • #8 exacerberus

    Quote from Benegesserit »

    Some of this is also the over-tuning of AD casters who have insane ratios due to them having terrible itemization pre-season 3, but fulfill burst functionality. Since they have items now, the upcoming nerfs will be to get them in line with the new items.


    Items? As in plural? What did AD casters get besides BC?

    2 BCs.

    On a serious note, during S2 the naturally high AD ratios AD casters always had were heavily hindered by Armor stacking, but in S3 resistances cost more whilst AD costs less, so once an AD caster has BC + LW + some more AD stacked (BT/Hydra/Mallet/Scimitar/Maw, whatever) -and resistances ofc (GA usually)- he's able to burst you down extremely fast.

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