The News Roundup: Vi, Xin Zhao, and Jarvan IV to be Possibly Nerfed, Dragon Master Swain, Warwick is Weak

Vi, Xin Zhao, and Jarvan IV to be Possibly Nerfed

Morello hit the forums saying his team will be touching these champs next patch

Vi is quickly becoming the worst-kept secret. 
The team is going to be touching this next patch

And what about j4 and Xin Zhao? They just dominate every game with only 1 warmogs and no damage items.
Likely here as well.

Dragon Master Swain

It looks like Dragon Master Swain will become a skin! 

One and a half year for Dragon Master Swain? We don't want it quickly, but don't delay it until I'm dead either. lol
We will do this skin - I'm sure of that.

Before or after you guys give champions with 10 skins more skins that they dont need [ Annie , Kat , teemo etc ]
After - Swain doesn't actually need a new skin (<3 Tyrant), we'd be doing this one JUST to meet the community request. It's a cool skin idea, so we'll make it.


This is important - and I hate to be this guy - but I specifically will not agree to meet anything laid out in a spec. I think setting that expectation that we'll implement, line-by-line, a suggestion is really dangerous.

We will make Dragon Master Swain, and it will be amazing. Will it be the exact same as every piece of the idea? Not likely.

Mr. Morello sir, I know this isn't the thread for it, but you can't just put out a Soon™ on one of my most anticipated skins and leave it hanging like that D:<. Please more juicy info.
We've actually known we were going to do this for awhile. Marking to remind myself why I shouldn't have said anything in 3 months when everyone's yelling that we failed to dleiver on our promise.

It's not going to come out immediately, or maybe even soon at all, but we'll do it.

Warwick is Weak

Morello agree's that Warwick is weak.

I agree WW is weak. Want to fix.

The League Update




  • #72 Sacull_Kinslayer


    Jarvan is not getting nerfed! At least not directly. It was a bug that made him do max passive damage that sped up his Jungle time. That explains a lot. Hope this will be it. Will have to test his jungle time asap once this goes live.

  • #68 Zero_Soulreaver

    Wow this is sad, people crying about Vi and J4 being OP so they wanna nerf?  This is so silly, their are other stronger picks out there, Vi and J4 really aren't part of the problem.  Let's not touch Shen or Kha'Zix who are pretty much banned almost every game.

  • #69 Darkjaceaka

    What does ''being banned from everygame'' means?

    people ban them because most people do, most of them don't have a fucking clue what the champion does.

    only now they stopped banning shaco because people realize he's shit, and morgana doesn't get banned anymore and she's pretty much the same.

    players are just copycats.

  • #67 MICHAEL419
    Xin J4 need a nerf? That must be it. Or then again it could be Warmogs Black Cleaver meta beating everything. They make it to where bruisers do good then they act like they don't want bruisers to do good.
  • #66 MICHAEL419
    Buggy E Q combo. Buggy ult. lets not fix any of that shit. Lets just nerf him as soon as he gets played. Morello keeps lowering the bar
  • #65 alcolitoz

    So sad, J4 was my main jungle since season 1 and I just bought the warring kingdoms skin...

  • #56 Gawhain

    Vi is just to incredible . Her ganks are superb . So its obvious in my eyes .

    J4 and Xin nerfs are also obvious .

  • #53 Kirbunis

    I can understand Jarvan and Xin to an extent (hopefully they do not mega-nerf them) but Vi only has a 50% win rate at the moment. I just don't see how nerfs could affect Vi without destroying her and making her unusable.

    Oh well, it seems to be the fate of all new champions. Might as well welcome Vi to the Rengar-Diana tier.

  • #55 stealthattack1

    too true. :'(

  • #58 Benegesserit

    Riot specifically said the last time they fixed a lot of her bugs that they were also an indirect buff to her. So the numbers that resulted after the fixes were not they numbers they saw on PBE when they were trying to balance her output.

    I really hope they don't think the functionality of her kit is OP. She could use a few small number tweaks though.

  • #62 bbqchocobo

    That's the dumbest shit I've heard. The champ should be balanced around not being buggy to begin with, and making something work as intended should not be considered buffing. The reason she's so strong is because her W combats the Warmog's meta and lets her clear the new jungle so well. She already has a lot of bad matchups in lane, more incoming. I don't think these 3 champs are OP (especially based on their win rate), and balancing exclusively around what's FOTM is stupid and lazy.

  • #51 Baywire

    I obviously wont give up on the game but ill have severe support issues if Jarvan is nerfed. Vi and Xin are just some really good champions, there have been many champions that are just better than others, why does it always resort to nerfing? why not buff other champions to make them better? I dunno, buff Udyr, buff WW, buff Shyv... Stop nerfing

    J4 is my favorite champion for a long time now and he doesn't need a nerf, I'll be the first to let you know his base stats are insanely low compared to almost all top lane champions... His passive gives him a minor damage boost *every 6 seconds MIN* and he has an armor and AS steroid in his E like no need to nerf these abilites *which his passive isn't that good as is* and his is just fine as is, champions shouldn't be nerfed because they are good in the jungle... When you do that, they become un-viable in lane because of their unnecessary nerf.

    Nerfing J4 would leave him only in jungle because he wouldn't be able to lane against champions who have higher base stats *which as i said, is just about all of them* He only levels the playing field because of his E which is probably what they will nerf. He also basically has 3 abilities... his w is probably the worst shield in game and the slow does literally nothing.

    Nerfing Xin will do the same thing and bring him back to an less than playable champion because he wont be doing damage or tanking because they will nerf his ult *which is why people are playing him so much right now* nerfing xin will remove him from lane *not that he is best there but why are we limiting champions to specific positions?* He is good right now because he tank's he CC's and he does both of them for a long time before dying.

    Vi cannot lane, nerfing her will put her in an unplayable situation where people will not play her anymore because her laning is utter crap because her damage *IN LANE* comes from drawn out trades but because she has no sustain *that shield is pretty mediocre, remember when they said in the spotlight "you'll barely even notice her passive it's on cooldown" yea I don't even notice she has a passive*, her trade is terrible and he gets bullied by people who have better sustained damage *like Darius or Garen* or gets destroyed by champions that have sustain *like Yorick or Cho*

    They have buffed the jungle, champions can no longer farm jungle and gank less. So what do we do? farm less and gank more, so we use champions that are good at ganking, why the F are they nerfing a champion because it is good at what they made it do? Do they notice that after nerfs, Zyra is barely played anymore, and is played more often as a support and not a mid *WHICH IS NOT WHAT SHE WAS MADE FOR LOL*

    Vi and J4 can clear jungle well but take more skill on ganks, Xin has HORRIBLE jungle clearing but has ez mode ganks... RIOT please take a look at what you are doing. Do they not realize that after nerfs and 2 re-buffs that Rengar is STILL under played and has a horrible win% because of what buffs to the jungle do?

    Riot is just upset that the community realized the next best way to play the game *which is by winning team fights by getting early leads from strong ganks* Rather than long drawn out games where farm is OP

    Last edited by Baywire: 2/13/2013 10:24:44 AM
  • #61 Dredbr1nger

    Relax, it'll only be a nerf to Dragon Strike's armor shred.

    The armor shred was balanced in Season 2 when the armor pen formula was reversed.

    I expect Xin Zhao to get the same nerf to his challenge passive.

    There is absolutely no need to over-react, anyone with armor shred/armor pen is pretty powerful at the moment.


    Last edited by Dredbr1nger: 2/13/2013 12:29:02 PM
  • #63 CoolRoot

    If you buff all champions to the overpowered champions' level, it results in power creep. Google it if you don't know why that is bad.

    A nerf can hit rather severely to a champion's jungle without affecting their laning abillity that much. In jarvan's case, nerf his base AS or his AS from E some (really strong in jungle) and if necessary buff his armor reduction on Q or something else that won't matter as much in jungle.

    The same can be done about Xin, and to some degree Vi.

    About Vi's passive. First of all, that you do not notice it does not mean it is doing nothing. Second, it scales with defensive items, meaning it is a lot more helpful to bruiser-like builds. If you build heavy damage, it is not suprising that you don't notice it. 

    Zyra was played mid at a recent tourney, and i play her myself sometimes. That the champion is played rarely does not have to mean it's weak, it can just have a niche appeal.

    Vi and J4 both have some of the most unavoidable ganks at level 6 (2 gap closers, one of which is not a skill shot and has applied cc). If the enemy does not have a built-in escape mechanism that pretty much spells flash or die. Xin is picked in tourneys a lot and his clearing isn't that horrible (better than shen's). These champions are deserving of some nerfs in my opinion, at least Xin and Vi. 

    Rengar, i agree with you that he is somewhat weak. He is a bit of a special issue though, as his mechanics are at their core kind of toxic and hard to balance. Read Hash's latest article, it was actually fairly accurate on this topic.

    I would guess that riot is very happy with the changes from passive farming to aggressive plays that is happening especially at the top level. Their increase of ambedient gold and decrease of farm value implies that they wanted this, it makes for a more enjoyable game both to play and watch. Nerfing the champions who benefited from this, who were balanced around the previous type of play, only shows that they have embraced the change.

    Moral of the rant: In general riot knows better what the state of the game is like, and are in a better (and more qualified) position to say what is best for it :)

  • #49 Kantuti

    How the fuck can Jarvan possibly need a nerf, Nothing even changed about him for like over a year, his base stats are already VERY average for a bruiser, and his ult is still bugged like fuck. I suppose his passive got a bit better in new jungle and with everyone stacking HP, but that's hardly the end of the world. 

    I'm getting tired of Riot pointlessly handing out nerfs just because something became popular. With so many champs in the league there's always going to be something that sits unused for ages until somebody discovers it is actually good.

    People  always try to overationalize this will all the "meta shitfs, new itemisation" rarararara bullshit because its easier then admiting we might have been wrong about something not being viable.


    Last edited by Kantuti: 2/13/2013 9:53:12 AM
  • #52 Gameguy301

    changes to the jungle, season 3 itemization, team comp shifts, penetration changes, nothing changed about jarvan but EVERYTHING has changed around him. you cant look at a champion as if they were in a vacuum, a champion is more than the sum of its parts it is also a product of its environment, and that environment?  ill tell you has changed alot recently.

    (i swear the people that called ezreal sleeper OP made me want to rip my hair out, the dynamics of the bottom lane shifted so dramaticaly and the game itself changed in the right ways to make ezreal the monster he became at season 2 and season 3.)

    Last edited by Gameguy301: 2/13/2013 10:30:50 AM
  • #60 Kantuti

    Except none of these things have changed anything significant about Jarvan. Meta shitfts don't even touch him, he's mister versatile, that's the entire ponit of the guy.  SW had kept him near the top jungle tiers for entire S2, how do you think that happened? Oh right, its because J4 has been objectively pretty good through entire S2 

    And yes, Ezreal is your classic example of sleeper OP before people realized the importance of escapes in League of Gap Closers, same as now suddenly they rediscovered Caitlyn is one of best laners or that armor debuffs are actually really useful. 

    I wonder why all the posts like yours only ever happen AFTER champion becomes popular, it should be so easy to predict what will be OP next month by watching itemisation changes, meta shitfs and whatnot? Oh right, because its usually just rarararara bullshit. 

    Champions don't exists in a vacuum, bot they sometimes fall into vacuum - and yes, itemisation, new mechanics, system changes, meta, all that matters, but its never an answer to everything.



    Last edited by Kantuti: 2/13/2013 12:08:12 PM
  • #71 Gameguy301

    lets take a look shall we?

    jarvan indirect buffs.

    penetration changes, brutalizer is now more desirable, AD casters are more popular in team comps jarvan brings % armor shred helping both teamates who are AD casters and / or buy brutaliser. (he can even buy one himself if he wants.)

    HP is cheaper, Hp values are higher now than ever before, jarvans armor aura is now more valuable thanks to EHP calculations. oh look his passive is %HP damage i bet that stings against the HP stacking enemy.

    resist stats are more expensive, good thing jarvan brings his own, time to buy HP.

    whats that attackspeed items got nerfed? i guess jarvans attackspeed aura is more useful now.

    oh hello there jungle changes, eh? single target jungleing is being favored? the big creep has more HP? what % health damage and attackspeed boosted madreds don't mind if i do. more jungle gold? madreds does the heavy lifting so i can build tank and clear fast? what is this sorcery.

    he was always good but he was never amazing some dont seem to realise its a thin line, he whent from a fringe pick to a valuable pick, its not rocket science, now do i need to hold your hand and  "rarara" ezreal or can you look back and do it for me, im sure you can figure it out. but if not just anser back and ill dig through and go again.

    Last edited by Gameguy301: 2/13/2013 4:34:25 PM
  • #74 Kantuti

    I love how you actually wrote an essay trying so hard to overanalyse things and in the meantime Riot bitchslaped you with latest  patchnotes that have nothing on Jarvans power but a bugfix to his passive. .

    Rarara bullshit at its finest.


  • #75 Gameguy301

    on no the bug fix makes me take 1-2 extra swings on the big camps i lose a whole 3-5 seconds on a full jungle clear i sure got blitch slapped, what ever shall i do. Im sure jarvans entire strength was being propped up on a single passive that activates once per 6 seconds you are so infinity wise mr kantuti.  ingore all the little things that stack up and keep telling yourself jarvans popularity is baseless trending + a minor bug. what next im sure liandiry changes wont have ANY effect on the game am i right?

    you lose nearly nothing, the passive activates on the first swing so at that time max hp damage and current hp damage are the same thing, you have to wait 6 seoncds for it to effect the same target twice, the jungle mob should be long dead before you get a second passive powered swing off on the big camp.

    i gave you all the peices, and you refuse to connect the dots, instead you grasp at straws. the only rarara im hearing here is from you too lazy to examine the big picture you point out the direct changes and say anything else is wasted time and effort. season 3 changed so much so far, the idea that some things move up and other move down without direct changes should be a fairly simple concept to understand.

    Last edited by Gameguy301: 2/14/2013 11:13:07 AM
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