Statikk on AP Tryndamere Change, Quinn and Valor, Demacia's Wings, Revealed

PBE Patches for 2/20

Due to the double patch today, here is a quick link back to both patches in case you missed anything!


Statikk on AP Tryndamere

You may have noticed in tonight's patch the change to Tryndamere. Statikk hits the forums to talk about this change.

Firstly, as always with PBE changes we are constantly in iteration and what you guys see can sometimes even be an initial pass that has been made largely on theory to put into playtesting (which is true in the case of these AP Tryndamere changes).

Currently, the change on PBE has Bloodlust's heal AP ratio at 0.2 + 0.01 per Fury consumed (1.2 total AP ratio). The AP ratios actually had already been readjusted to 0.3 + 0.012 per Fury consumed (1.5 total AP ratio which is the same as Live) before this PBE build was even sent out earlier today.

No, we are not nerfing Tryndamere because he is FotM or because Morello hates you. Power and balance aside, the core issue here is that due to the fact that the AP ratio on Bloodlust is 100% loaded into the base value, AP Tryndamere completely trivializes the actual intended play and counterplay of Bloodlust. We don't mind Tryndamere healing for huge amounts if he has to work for it and his opponents get chances to deny him his resource and punish him for playing poorly. On the other hand, we are not okay with him sustaining back to full Health by mindlessly activating Bloodlust on cooldown with complete impunity while he hides in a brush or wanders from lane to lane.

Although this change obviously has power impacts (yes, it's a nerf), this change is about preserving Tryndamere's intended gameplay and the counterplay that should exist playing against him whether he's building AD or AP.

 


Quinn and Valor, Demacia's Wings, Revealed

Today Riot did the "official" reveal for Quinn. There is really nothing new if you have been reading RoG's PBE Posts. but check it out below!  You can also check out our Quinn preview video here.


Quinn and Valor, Demacia’s Wings, will be swooping onto the Fields of Justice in the upcoming patch. The most comprehensive duo to grace League of Legends yet, Quinn and Valor work in tandem to punish their opponents through agile and precise attacks.

  • Harrier (Passive): Valor periodically marks enemies as Vulnerable. Quinn's first attack against Vulnerable targets will deal bonus physical damage.
  • Blinding Assault: Quinn sends Valor forth in a straight line skillshot. Valor stops at the first enemy struck, damaging and briefly blinding all nearby enemies.
    • Tag Team: Valor damages and blinds all nearby enemies.
  • Heightened Senses:
    • (Passive): Attacking a Vulnerable target will increase Quinn’s Attack Speed for a few seconds.
    • (Active): Valor rushes to the skies, revealing a large area around Quinn, including all brush and non-stealthed units.
    • Tag Team:
      • (Passive): Valor gains a large amount of Attack Speed permanently.
      • (Active): Valor reveals a large area around him, including brush and non-stealthed units.
  • Vault: Quinn dashes to an enemy, dealing damage and slowing them briefly. She then kicks back off her target, landing near her maximum attack range.
    • Tag Team: Valor dashes to an enemy, damaging and slowing them for a brief time.
  • Tag Team:
    • First Cast: Quinn leaps away from the battlefield and allows Valor to take her place briefly. Valor functions as a mobile melee attacker and gains a huge Movement Speed bonus when out of combat. This bonus is decreased gradually to a smaller value when in combat.
    • Second Cast (Skystrike): Valor flies from the battlefield, allowing Quinn to return in a hail of bolts that damage all nearby enemies. Damage is increased based on how much health targets are missing. If Tag Team is not cast a second time, Skystrike is cast automatically once Tag Team ends.


Quinn and Valor’s combined prowess makes them a highly mobile carry combo. During the laning stage, the passive effects from Harrier and Heightened Senses make Quinn an excellent last-hitter, and raises the chances of the duo securing kills against enemy champions. Quinn and Valor also enjoy a range of defensive abilities: Quinn can activate Heightened Senses to check for approaching junglers, while Vault ensures Quinn can easily maintain safe distance when enemies come in for the kill. If an opponent is still able to close in, the blind from Blinding Assault can briefly neutralize the enemy and allow for a hasty retreat.

Quinn and Valor are also highly capable when assisting friendly ganks. The slow from Vault makes their target susceptible to skillshots, and grants valuable time to secure a kill before your enemy can escape. The best Quinn and Valor players can even use smart positioning and timing with Vault to launch Quinn over terrain. Quinn and Valor also excel at chasing down fleeing enemies. Activating Heightened Senses gives vision across terrain and into brush, allowing the duo to close in on enemies attempting to juke. Meanwhile, the speed bonus from Tag Team helps Valor hunt down retreating prey before Quinn returns to Skystrike for the killing blow.

The nature of Quinn and Valor’s play changes fundamentally once you gain access to Tag Team. While still a disruptive ranged duo, Tag Team temporarily turns Valor into a melee monster, perfectly poised for pursuing wounded enemies and cleaning up team fights. As a lengthy buff, Tag Team affords Valor enough time to zip between lanes to defend or split push as needed. The long duration also means Valor can fully disengage from a team fight, reposition and heal up if needed, and re-enter the fight once the conditions are more favorable.

Quinn and Valor operate as an extremely powerful and mobile team, perfect for new players and veterans looking to carry in League of Legends!

Lore


Quinn and Valor are an elite ranger team. With crossbow and claw, they undertake their nation's most dangerous missions deep within enemy territory, from swift reconnaissance to lethal strikes. The pair’s unbreakable bond is deadly on the battlefield, leaving opponents blind and riddled with arrows long before they realize who they're fighting: not one, but two Demacian legends.

As a young girl, Quinn shared a hunger for adventure with her twin brother. They dreamed of becoming knights, but lived a quiet, humble life in the rural borderlands of Demacia. Together they imagined triumphant battles in faraway lands, seizing glory for their king and slaying foes in the name of Demacian justice. When daydreams alone could no longer satisfy their warriors’ souls, they embarked on daring wilderness adventures in search of true danger. One such quest turned to tragedy when a terrible accident claimed her brother's life. Overcome with grief, Quinn abandoned her dreams of knighthood. 

On the anniversary of her loss, Quinn gathered the courage to return to the scene of the tragedy. To her surprise, she found a wounded Demacian eagle at the site of her brother’s death – a rare and beautiful bird long believed extinct. Quinn nursed the fledgling back to health, and as they grew up together, a deep bond formed between the two. She saw the same quality in her newfound friend that had lived within her brother, and so she gave him the name "Valor." The pair found strength in each other, and together they pursued the dream she had once abandoned. 

The Demacian army had never seen heroes like Quinn and Valor. Their deadly skills quickly set them apart from their rank-and-file peers, but many still had their doubts. How could a common-born girl, even with such a powerful creature at her side, forego years of military training? Quinn and Valor proved themselves on one critical mission, tracking down a Noxian assassin who had evaded an entire Demacian battalion. When they brought him to justice, they finally earned the admiration and respect of their nation. The two now serve as living, fighting icons of Demacian strength and perseverance. Together, Quinn and Valor will stand against any threat to their beloved home. 

"Most soldiers only rely on their weapons. Few truly rely on each other." - Quinn

Head over to Reddit on February 21st at 10 AM PST for an AMA hosted by Quinn’s designers!

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Comments

  • #8 nothingxs

    To be honest, the nerf to AP Tryndamere isn't that bad -- find a group of minions nearby and spin all over them to get your big heal. Additionally, if you have to go into Undying Rage, your next spin away will probably hit enough things that you can hit your heal anyway and survive. This just makes his laning phase a little rougher.

    That said, if you were going to hit AP Tryndamere's early game so hard, why not make his full-fury heal a bit better? This is just a strict nerf.

    Last edited by nothingxs on 2/21/2013 8:46:27 AM
  • #4 Gedatz

    Yet they do nothing to encourage this move to be built with AD, just reduce the numbers to tell people to stop it. Yep this is an attempt to get Tryndamere, the guy that won't die, to build as he was intended to be built, totally believeable.

  • #6 mellored

    There's no reason to kill AP tryd, any more then there is to kill AP yi, or AP sion, or AD thresh.

    They only need to balance AP tryd.  And not letting him fully heal while he switches lanes isn't a bad idea.

    Last edited by mellored on 2/21/2013 7:44:27 AM
  • #7 Gedatz

    Except AP yi, Sion, and even Ad thresh all get benefit out of their damage scaling moves to actually get work done. AP Trynd has to use his escape move to deal damage or just run around and be a nuisance while he falls off into horrible irrelevance late game. Comparing a Yi that can and will wipe up the team to AP trynd is like comparing Heimerdinger to Elise.

    Edit: if anything i worry for sion and poppy. They have large ap scaling and the trend of recent seems to be decrease the values of AP older strange AP build champs have.

    Last edited by Gedatz on 2/21/2013 8:03:42 AM
  • #9 mellored

    Quote from Gedatz »

    Except AP yi, Sion, and even Ad thresh all get benefit out of their damage scaling moves to actually get work done. AP Trynd has to use his escape move to deal damage or just run around and be a nuisance while he falls off into horrible irrelevance late game. Comparing a Yi that can and will wipe up the team to AP trynd is like comparing Heimerdinger to Elise.

    Edit: if anything i worry for sion and poppy. They have large ap scaling and the trend of recent seems to be decrease the values of AP older strange AP build champs have.

    Try'd has 2.5 (21 second cooldown, -2 per crit)

    Poppy has 1.4  (12 second cooldown)

    Sion has 1.8 (20 second cooldown)

    PBE Try'd has 1.3 +.06 per attack/crit

    Healing also has a higher value then damage, because it's multiplied by armor/MR.  (so really 3.25 for current tryd, and 1.45 + 0.09 for PBE).

  • #15 Aandeus

    Quote from Gedatz »

    Edit: if anything i worry for sion and poppy. They have large ap scaling and the trend of recent seems to be decrease the values of AP older strange AP build champs have.

    Unless they become problematic somehow, Poppy and Sion will both be completely ignored until they get remakes. Which is sad, because I love Poppy, but I can only bring myself to play her in Dominion which I haven't played since about a month after it came out.

    Also, the difference between Sion/Poppy and Tryndamere/Master Yi is that AP is the standard build for Sion/Poppy, not the off-build.

    Last edited by Aandeus on 2/21/2013 11:58:10 AM
  • #3 Cerbereth

    Does ap tryndamere even do any damage on anything, but spinning slash?

  • #5 mellored

    Quote from Cerbereth »

    Does ap tryndamere even do any damage on anything, but spinning slash?

    Nope.  Slash -> heal -> slash -> heal (with mocking shout in there too).

     

    Now he has to slash->AA->heal->slash->AA->heal.

  • #10 nothingxs

    His auto attacks are at least ~180 or so attack damage per swing, and once you have Lich Bane, your first auto attack after any spell (Spin, Shout or Heal) is going to do a nice chunk of magic damage, so yes, he does do more damage than just "slash -> heal"

    Never mind that any random crit on an auto attack, which you still wanted to do, will let you slash one more time. His damage is pretty decent at taking single targets out (or softening a group of targets if you simply MUST team fight).

  • #12 mellored

    Fair enough.

    But now he has to auto-attack more, or at least lawnmower some minions, to keep the sustain.

  • #1 Vulpixel

    #attempting to justify nerfing AP trynd

  • #2 Straightrazor

    #reasonable design changes to bring back the intended counterplay of Bloodlust and increase meaningful decision-making while playing as or against Tryndamere

  • #11 nothingxs

    Reasonable according to... who? All they did was straight nerf. It'd have been more meaningful to drop the lower cap like they did, but potentially raise the higher cap.

  • #13 ThingODoom

    It's a straight nerf because everyone started streaming with him and he's currently FOTM.

    Riot: Wut, challenger level games being won with troll build??? NERF NOW>

     
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  • #14 Isfirrius

    And this is awful :/

    If this is working it wasn't a troll build. I can count the days to AP Sejuani be nerfed...

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