Solcrushed on Viktor Update
He also teases about some new champions!
Originally Posted by Riot (View RedTracker Source)Slight update: Unfortunately not much since there hasn't been too much progress.
Prototype is finished thanks to the Pony, but we need store-related tech to be able to fully realize some of the things we want to do. Playtesting time has been crunched due to Aatrox and some other characters-that-shall-not-be-named.
We will go into small scale testing soon, hopefully there will be more info to give out in a few days.
Statikk on Akali
Originally Posted by Riot (View RedTracker Source)Hey Sayath,
Once again I'll start with, thanks for the massively detailed and well thought-out analyses.
Unfortunately I do have to be brutally honest here though, Akali certainly isn't in an ideal spot, but to be realistic with you there are a ton of champions who are worse off. Champions like Rengar, Heimer, Olaf, Sion, and Alistar for example are all champions I feel are simply in a worse spot than she currently is and should be prioritized as so. This doesn't mean all these champions will receive changes before Akali does since some projects are bigger in scope than others, but it does mean that the team will at least be exploring the needs of those champions first before investing time elsewhere.
As much as I'd love to just sit down and hack away at her design, Akali is but 1 of our 100+ current champions and it doesn't seem right to give her special focus simply because there is a strong presence on these forums. Once again, I do appreciate the thought and effort being put in here, it's actually very impressive, but all of the above still stands.
The Shadow Dance turning into a skillshot is quite intriguing (essentially multi-target Lee Sin Q) and seems like a great direction on paper. I do have a few questions though:
1) Do you think Akali will be able to function without a guaranteed targeted dash? Would other changes to the kit be needed to support this change?
2) Do you think such radical changes to Shadow Dance (and whatever else we would need to tweak to make this work) is something that will ruin the current feel of Akali and possibly push away current Akali players? Changes like these typically come at a high cost especially when considering that Akali is still a fairly popular champion.
3) What do you think of this version of her R that is similar to what you suggested except when she dashes to a marked target it only removes the mark on THAT target (note: this would potentially have to be coupled with other change such as now being cooldown based instead of ammo and the cooldown resetting on kills/assists)? I think there's some interesting possibilities here.Its because you guys just nerfed Akali recently when she didn't even needed one...Well, sure, we nerfed Akali. Once again though, we can agree to disagree on the part where she didn't need a change. The team felt pretty strongly that she was an issue.
- Also for 3.8 PBE patch there was a hinter that Akali W was going to get its CD decreased from 20 to 20/19/18/17/16 and energy cost from 80/75/70/65/60 to flat rate 60, any comments into why they didn't came through? We would love to hear the thought process .
As far as the W buff, we didn't feel like it appropriately addressed the actual issue that has been identified here (increasing her skill ceiling / counterplay depth). The cool part of that change was basically giving Akali more opportunities to use her W in interesting ways but I'm not sure it would have been used that way in practical settings. I think a more solid change would be reduce both the CD and the duration (keep similar total uptime) which would basically allow her to relocate her W more often. It might be extremely frustrating to play against though. Thoughts?
Do you have the technology / can you code a multi-target Lee-Sin Q in a reasonable time frame? The technology for Lee Sin Q obviously exists. The projectile would need to continue moving after hitting an enemy (Diana's Q for example). Also, a targeted ult with interaction whether or not a buff is placed on an enemy (Diana's R) does exist. So I think it would be quite possible barring hidden problems.It'd probably only take me about an hour or 2 to script out this version of Shadow Dance. Unfortunately, that's one of the least time consuming parts of developing these things. After initial analysis, planning, and implementation we would still need to allot times to playtests and feedback/iteration cycles until we were confident in the direction. After that comes one of the most time consuming parts which is allocating art resources. For this change alone, we would need a few VFX particles (ex: her shadow missile, a debuff marker) and sound effects to go along with that. We would then need to do feedback/iteration cycles upon that to solidify the art direction and simultaneously do balance iterations throughout.
Also, together with Xypherous you have been discussing Master Yi and Akali as the first two of the squishy melee champion archetype and how they are supposed to succeed in League of Legends. Did these discussions not lead to desirable results or is this an undertaking that will take far more time and effort? Or are you at the moment simply preoccupied with other tasks (not asking what, only asking whether this is the case)?
Furthermore, what happened to your idea of making Twilight Shroud give Movement Speed? I guess it didn't feel good / failed to achieve its mission statement. Why was that?
There's a lot of development that you guys never see that happens before release. Changing even just 1 spell has a huge time commitment involved with it across several teams.
Master Yi, Rengar, and Shyvana are all melee champions that have core issues which we are currently in the midst of tackling. As soon as we get free time, we would like to tackle other melee champions such as Akali, Fiora, and Talon to see what we need to do there, but I think those champions will benefit a lot from the current experimentation and learning we are doing with the current set of melee champions.
I think adding Movement Speed to W is still an interesting option, but we need to weigh such a change against the vast other possibilities. If we allot more power there then it leaves us with less room to go as extreme with future changes (for example the skillshot R). Thoughts?I was thinking this to. Are bandaid fixes until deeper changes can be made frowned upon at Riot?No, not really, but sometimes we make a "bandaid" fix and players get attached to that mechanic. Then it becomes a difficult situation that has a large cost to removing it. One example of this was the change to allow Akali to proc her Q mark with her E. This was a change that felt amazing for the Akali player but is potentially a large detriment to her counterplay in lane.Honestly, wouldn't it make more sense to simply split Twilight Shroud into two charges?Yeah I was just thinking about that. The only problem is now we're giving her the possibility of having 2 Shrouds out at the same time, which changes things quite a bit (unless we're saying she has 2 ammo charges but cannot use them simultaneously). Other than that, I think that would be the best solution to the problem. Do note though that I think this would be a substantial increase to her power level.
@ Statikk: What do you think of the following:
Twilight Shroud Ammo CD: 10 secs
Maximum Charges: 2
Stealth duration: 4 seconds
Thus, Akali can choose between 8 seconds of stealth with 20 sec cooldown or 4 seconds of stealth with 10 sec cooldown. That's in essence the direction your change is aiming for. Obviously, without the downside.
The question therefore is: Is the downside created by your change necessary or can we avoid it? Also, would be adding an ammo system be as easy to implement as the previous ideas?
As far as the skillshot R goes, yes, I spoke with Xypherous and it is possible to do context sensitive targeting (essentially if I'm mousing over a target with the mark debuff dash to it, otherwise fire a shadow in that direction and consume an ammo).
The 2nd part about basically having marks associate / clear based upon their parent shadows is a bit more tricky but is something I do believe is possible (I may have to summon the dark lord Xelnath to help me here). I do wonder though if this will cause tons of confusion in terms of how to represent which shadow marks belong to which shadows. The idea of multiple shadows being able to be sent out is extremely intriguing but figuring out how it exactly should work and how it should be visually manifested seems a bit messy. An interesting problem.Although we disagree on whether or not Akali needed a nerf in the first place I'm glad that you're continuing to respond to these threads Statikk.I think it's natural to be frustrated by what we do, so I can't really blame you guys. I've learned to have a much thicker skin having worked on this team for a couple of years now.
I made a post in Sayath's first thread that I'm not particularly proud of, a somewhat personal attack on Statikk. I just wanted to stop in and apologize for it. It's just frustrating seeing a champ that you enjoy very much but has never anything but niche be pushed even further out of viable play.
While I agree that Akali's mechanics are fairly simple and this can and is definitely a problem at lower level play, the fact that she had a 50% win rate at the time of her nerf as well as another indirect nerf in the next patch with the health pot change made it look like a knee jerk reaction to whining on the forums about her.
I can't say if the nerfs were thought out or not because I don't work at Riot but from the outside it looked like one of two things: The nerfs to her ult and Q weren't planned with the understanding that the pot change was going to negatively effect Akali significantly, or Riot was purposefully making her underpowered as they did with Eve.
I think that most of the Akali players here have recognized that Akali can never be made viable in higher level play with the way she's designed currently. So as far as I'm concerned a rework of some of her kit is welcome. I'd rather have an Akali kit that I don't like as much as the current one but is viable than an Akali who's kit I absolutely love but feels like I'm trolling my team when I pick her because she's so woefully underpowered.
A stop gap buff like changing the ratio on her Q proc to .55 (as has been mentioned here before) would go a long way to making Akali viable again in the short run while Riot figures out what to do with her.
I honestly question whether Akali isn't "viable" right now. It really depends on your definition of the word "viable." I think there are tons of players outside of this thread that have different opinions than you guys do and believe that she really isn't even in a bad spot.
You simply can't just use winrate to determine whether a champion is viable or not. Pre-nerf Olaf was consistently a ~45% win rate champion when he was completely dominating the competitive scene in every single region. Do you think Lee Sin is not viable? He shares a very similar win rate to Akali. Win rate alone cannot determine the viability of a champion.
I also don't agree that Eve is underpowered. She has shown to be still a powerful champion in the right hands and is not an uncommon pick in competitive play or high Elo ranked solo queue.
EUW To get 20-Win IP Boosts
If you played between May 18th - May 30th on the EUW servers, you will be getting 20-Win IP Boosts.
Originally Posted by Riot (View RedTracker Source)
Recently, EUW experienced a pretty rough patch of degraded service and downtime, starting around May 18th and continuing off and on until recently. We've identified and mitigated the root cause of the issues, so wanted to take a moment to reflect on the situation a bit and talk about compensation!
As League players ourselves, we're keenly aware of how much it sucks when you can't log in and play. We know how it feels to get booted out of a game, or to lose a ranked game because the servers took a dive. It's intensely frustrating and frankly unacceptable.
The overwhelming growth of the League of Legends community has constantly surprised and humbled us. EUW in particular has been an extremely fast-growing platform, hitting new record peaks on a regular basis. As a result, we're kind of in uncharted territory when it comes to scaling an online game service. Occasionally this means things have broken in unexpected ways. Members of our technology team in Europe and back in Los Angeles have been hard at work to scale the infrastructure behind League of Legends and provide a game experience that meets your expectations.
We also know that communication to players on EUW hasn't been optimal, and that's been a problem for a long time. We're working on a comprehensive plan to improve this for European players (speaking of which, we've got 20 open positions for the community team in Dublin - come help us make the experience better for European players!). As a first step, we'll be holding an AMA on Wednesday with technology leadership at Riot to explain in more detail some of the problems we've found and solved. We will also talk about what goes into running the League of Legends service in Europe. Join us in General Discussion this Wednesday June 5 at 6pm GMT+1 with senior technical Rioters based in Dublin and LA. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the EUW server, come along and join in the conversation right here in General Discussion.
Finally, on the subject of compensation: we'll be giving a 20-win IP boost to all players who encountered issues on EUW between May 18th and May 30th. We hope you accept this as a gesture of apology for not only the most recent server issues, but also for the subpar experience players on EUW have had in recent months.
We want to thank you all for your understanding and for bearing with us as we battled those pesky yordles in our systems.