Unofficial PBE Changes, Brush & Fog of War Discussion, More on Rengar, Swain, Mordekaiser, Olaf Pulled from 3.11, and MUCH more

Unofficial PBE Patch Note for 8/26/2013

Champion Changes

Thresh

  • Death Sentence [ Q ] - No longer reduces cooldown on successful hit by 3 seconds (Now back to LIVE Values all around)

Brush & Fog of War Discussion

Originally Posted by Riot (View RedTracker Source)

Hi everyone,

I've been quiet for a while so for those of you who who don't know me I'm Yakaru and I'm one of the Senior Gameplay Engineers. I'm pretty well known as a hardcore tabletop gamer and for my Ninja 300 motorcycle.

I've been looking at fog of war and brush and I've noticed a lot of things that are strange, which made me realize the rules for brush/fog aren't as clean and consistent as they could be. If you have a few minutes would you mind sharing your thoughts with me?

Here's some facts:
* Autoattacks will always reveal you through brush
* Nunu's ultimate (Absolute Zero) doesn't reveal him in brush while he's charging
* Blitzcrank Rocket Grabs will show you his fist but not Blitzcrank himself
* Nidalee throwing her spears (Q) also doesn't reveal her
* Taric's Dazzle does reveal him
* Nunu's Iceball will reveal him

I can get into the details of why it's like this, but the more important question is how SHOULD it work and why?

My gut instincts are that any 'aggressive' action should probably reveal you -- if a spell is dealing damage, slows, roots, or stuns, for example, it should reveal the caster. This is an easy to understand rule and is very easy to understand and explain to new players, but I'm not sure about this, what do you guys think?

Thanks much!
~Yakaru
Do you have a BGG account?, I'd love to know more of what style of game you like, worker placement, bidding...?
No BGG account, sorry, but I was a partner in a game store a while back; it was a bad idea -- bought way more games for myself than I should've :P

For everyone else I'll reply on the vision topic soon. A lot of thoughts to read through!
Skillshots and ground-targeted abilities would require a bunch of new exceptions to a general rule about aggressive actions revealing, I think.
If Nidalee throws a spear at her Nexus when the game starts, that clearly shouldn't reveal her.
Nidalee sneakily dropping a trap into the bush near red also clearly shouldn't reveal her.
Hey Blaine, just want to clarify by 'reveal' I mean "will not be hidden by brush", not something like the reveal of a Caitlyn Snap Trap I can see how my wording could make that point confusing.

Hey guys,

first up I totally want to fix pinks not showing other wards in brush and invisible skill shots! I think everyone wants that The same goes for the minimap teleport bug -- if anyone has a good way to consistently reproduce that let me know. I hate that bug too.

I'm glad to hear from people like Sty13z who brought up their own confusion about vision. I'm glad to know I'm not alone in my confusion . I know I often instinctually do the wrong thing, here's my example:
* ambush setup in brush
* cast a skill shot
* RETREAT before they counter-attack my squishy (even though my cast didn't reveal me)
Maybe this is just my own bad habit, but the current rules are complex and there's no way to tell if I've exposed myself.

NUNU:
Nunu was a big topic -- thanks to blockpartay, Narssisstic, Arizel and everyone else who chimed in there. I think Nunu's ult is the most obvious example of a spell which has unintuitive vision rules:
* The first time I played Nunu, I didn't know that casting his ult in a brush had this huge, dangerous advantage.
* "Im 729 elo" made a great point that at least showing the particle effect may be a good compromise. This also is consistent with skill shot behavior -- I see the mystic shot from brush, but I don't see the giant orb of ice.
If we were to change Nunu, though, we would definitely balance him appropriately, and I would defer to the Live Design team to make the right calls on changes there.

SKILL SHOTS:
Squippit had the thoughts of revealing when a skill shot 'lands'
* pro: this makes sense (you damaged someone, brush drops, if you don't damage them you stay hidden).
* con: I can see it leading to my tank purposefully taking that nid spear so we can jump on her.
is that good counterplay or punishing someone for successfully using their spear?

Another interesting one to consider: if I'm playing Ahri and cast Foxfire (W), should that expose Ahri? Should she be exposed when one flame acquires onto an enemy minion or champion?
What about Teemo? Every time someone steps on a shroom, will Teemo be revealed for a few seconds?
Hey PowerbIade,

Good point. If I step on a Teemo mushroom or Caitlyn trap I probably shouldn't see Teemo/Cait even if they're "in range" of my team's vision and hiding in a brush. I'd say in those cases the trap/shroom is causing the damage, not the champ who put it there.
Also go buy a 500cc Suzuki GSXR. It makes Ninja's...well it makes them feel bad about what they are ;P
There's a joke among my motorcyling friends: Wrecked my first bike, time for a GSXR. :P
Honestly I can't imagine wanting anything bigger than my 300 either. But ride what you want -- I'm tiny so a tiny bike 'fits' me.
In terms of reproducing the "mini map teleport bug" (I'm assuming you're talking about the bug where as someone is appearing out of fog of war, it shows them for a split second on the mini map in a location they were at some unknowable time ago?). I notice that happening mostly on junglers, and it shows them at the last major buff they took (red or blue golem) for about .5 to .75 seconds on the mini map at their jungle location before you realize that they are in a lane, gankin ur carries. Or something like that.
Yes, this jives with what I've seen too. The problem is it doesn't happen every time the jungler pops out. We're trying to get something consistent internally -- will help track it down as well as let us verify a fix actually fixes it. Trust me, I want to smash this bug. Hard. In fact it is one of the reasons I've been digging into the vision system recently.

In terms of the OP - "how should it work" I think it would be fair that all auto attacks reveal you in all situations, while no skills do (unless the live team thinks a skill is so op that it needs to reveal OR unless you guys want to get super realistic with it and say "oh lux is firing her super bright ult - that should reveal her") I don't really care as long as its consistent.
I'm sympathetic to this viewpoint -- if I can't explain the rules to a new player in a couple of sentences I'm a bit worried. Sort of an Occam's Razor principle.
I think you should fix the brush bug that makes it so slow moving lock ons can be dodged by going into brush at the right time.
This happens to me all the time as akali. If I cast my Q at a target and they go into brush after i cast it but before it hits them it will often completely disappear. I can run in after them and they wont have the mark on them and my Q will be on cooldown. pretty frustrating burning a chunk of my energy and my main damage spell to have it completely disappear.
Xelnath has confirmed this to be a bug to me; I'm going to investigate it and see if this can be fixed
Props on having THE BEST avatar out of any Rioter. Bumps you up on my list. Play Magic, by any chance?
I used to play magic, dropped out around the Forgotten Empires set.
Ahri was the first champ I had a lot of input on; she has a special place in my heart.

Hey Renzokuken,

I'm going to get a bit technical here. I'm not saying this is how it should work, but just how it currently works.

Basically the way vision works is each vision source is evaluated separately:
the sight you get that shows stealth does not 'reveal all stealth in this area' but requires the source of that stealth (e.g. your pink ward outside the brush, your support with oracles, etc.) sight actually see it. So even if your green ward can see inside the brush it doesn't "partner up" with the pink/oracles nearby to see inside it.

If you guys think this could be changed I'm definitely open to talk about it
Also, regarding your OP. I rather like that Nidalee is the master of the brush. That's her domain and it's always been her playstyle. It would feel dirty to me to take it away from her. I say this as somebody who plays Nid like, once every 2 months or so.
The idea of certain abilities/champions having some form of "brush stealth" makes sense to me so long as the mechanic is well communicated to both the player of that champion and anyone playing against them
Another annoying/weird edge-case that causes some unintuitive results and, imho, should be fixed:
(A) When I am inside a bush, and the enemy champion is inside the same bush, we can see each other, he autoattacks me, and I step out of the bush a split second later, he disappears instantly and I cannot attack him.
Compare with:
(B) When I am outside a bush, and the enemy champion is inside the bush, and he autoattacks me, he is revealed for the usual duration and I can attack him.
I'm actually quite familiar with the issue you describe as I touched that part of the game just recently and in fact caused the behavior change you request. We changed it back (my current changes are to fix bugs, not change behavior), but this would be very doable if everyone agrees this is preferable

Hey guys, just thinking outloud here and I don't want to derail the conversation but as it is related:
Does anyone think there should be a good way to tell if you are being revealed by your own actions (not just standing in a warded brush) and if so any suggestions on how to do this without visually crowding the screen?
I'm actually quite familiar with the issue you describe as I touched that part of the game just recently and in fact caused the behavior change you request. We changed it back (my current changes are to fix bugs, not change behavior), but this would be very doable if everyone agrees this is preferable
I'd actually really like that change. Some sort of, "Recently attacked you from brush, is revealed while within that brush."
Hey guys, just thinking outloud here and I don't want to derail the conversation but as it is related:
Does anyone think there should be a good way to tell if you are being revealed by your own actions (not just standing in a warded brush) and if so any suggestions on how to do this without visually crowding the screen?
I think the current global "you're revealed right now" particle (Nidalee, Caitlyn, Kog'Maw) is okay. It's not used so often that it would overlap itself much, but the particle is pretty intuitive, especially since it is used in other parts of the game.


More on Rengar's Rework

Originally Posted by Riot (View RedTracker Source)

What about that it cost's x ferocity to enter stalk? Then there would at least be a tradeoff. Idk, to me it just seems like this new stealth has the same problem as the old one, basicly.
I've seen this a bunch in this thread so far, but i don't see it as having the same problems due to

- Stalk having less Stealth Duration than on Live
- Stalk losing Thrill of the Hunt's movement speed
- Rengar's overall burst being lowered

In general, there's a much lower window for Rengar to Sneak-Attack you. He can also just run and leap on you if his goal is to just get to you, but if taking your opponent by surprise is important (say, in a lane-gank) that option is still available and potent. Overall it takes a lot more planning and execution to pull off the stealth-attack, but you can forgo the planning and just bumrush them (at the cost of alerting them to your presence earlier)


Possible QoL Changes for Swain

Originally Posted by Riot (View RedTracker Source)

Still following this post just cause i'm interested in the discussion - but prolly not gonna do pointed responses to questions unless i see something that i can harmlessly jump in on.

And since i've still seen posts about it: Not reworking Swain. Please read the first post u.u

Still, it's given me a lot to think about for QoL changes/improvements that can be made to Swain players, since he's definitely on the clunkier side of things. Thanks for being so clear and concise dudes - i'm really feelin' the birdvibes


Riot Blitz and Riot Graves Available Until After PAX

Originally Posted by Riot (View RedTracker Source)

Some of you have asked for additional time to snag your riot skins. We want to make sure you all have the opportunity to sort out your riot squads, so we're leaving Riot Blitzcrank and Riot Graves in the store until after we leave PAX Prime on September 3.

Just remember that while Riot Blitzcrank will be back in action at our next convention, Riot Graves retires to the Legacy Skins Vault once we pack up the show at PAX. This is your last chance to get your hands on last year's riot skin, so don't forget!

Hit the store between now and the end of PAX on September 3 to grab Riot Graves and Riot Blitzcrank before they're gone. 

 


Much More from Lyte

Originally Posted by Riot (View RedTracker Source)

Nice to see you're still attempting to solve symptoms rather than the problem.
What really needs to be done is that you guys need to get off your wallets, shell out some money for mods, and do away with the tribunal system. It's broken and doesn't work. Given the fact that trolls are abundant in this community it seems pretty illogical to allow them to police the community's behavior. I'd go as far as saying that the average league player is an a-hole. *See edit At best that their behavior towards people they don't know is indifferent, rude, and unconscionable. So, the fact that you allow the very same people to determine whether someone's behavior is out of line is pretty irresponsible, I'd say.
I applaud the effort, but the way I see it; this new feature is going to cause more problems than it solves. Get off your butts and quit pawning off the work of policing this community riot.
Edit:
Okay, saying the average LoL player is an a-hole is prob a bit too much. But, I would say that the majority of matches I've been in had a troll, rager, rage-quitter, rage provoker, internet tough guy, or other players around encouraging that kind of bahavior when they weren't the one exhibiting it.
Going by your anecdote, if a large number of your games have at least 1 rager, troll or rage-quitter, you are still seeing up to 9 other players in the game that are neutral or sportsmanlike. This is the data that we see as well, which suggests that a vast majority of the community is pretty awesome.

To clear up some misconceptions, systems like the Tribunal are moderated. In fact, the more severe punishments are always reviewed by Player Support staff. The cases that tend to be close in voting also get double checked by staff. Right now, up to 74% of players that are punished by the Tribunal improve their behaviors and don't return to the Tribunal. Although the system isn't perfect, it does a decent job.
Have you considered doing a feature with the LCS players about toxicity, or having pro gamers release PSAs in general? We have a lot of pros who are loved by a large portion of the community, yet whose behaviour isn't the most admirable. If they were to come out in favour of being sportsmanlike maybe it could enact a change in the behaviour of their viewerbase. I saw the machinima vs short about Ocelote's rage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5wx_tOtFos) and the frankness with which he talked about his past toxicity was really effective in demonstrating that we don't all have to be angels, we just have to not be toxic in game. I think that even the most neutral LCS players can make that endorsement.
We worked with Machinima and Ocelote on that piece, and are definitely interested in more pieces like that in the future. If you noticed recently, we also released a bunch of videos teaching positions of the game by the Korean OGN Pros. Check it out if you haven't seen them!
How do you feel about premades? Are there more reports for games with 3-4 man premades?
Personally I have found that 3-4 premades are quite aggressive, probably because they think their friends "have their backs"
When we were doing research on Champion Select, we did notice that certain combinations of premades were more toxic than others. We're figuring out ways to incorporate this research into our Champion Select solution, to hopefully prevent a lot of the bad behaviors from premades.
Was going to stop posting as you guys are doing great, but just thought of something that might be easy and is pretty logical if feasible to implement.

At end where one would award honor, as people tend not to have perfect memories, a scrollable recap of in game text. Would assist as a tool to easily remember who were positive for those occasions when you forget the names of who said what but don't want to report or honor the wrong person.

Just a thought.
Thx again for making the game more enjoyable.
Hm, we're definitely interested in making Honor more visible and easier to use.
You need to give the toxic players a rational reason why they are over reacting, For example after a loss say, Did you know the enemy Fiora has an 80% win rate with Fiora. This is a sample of rationalizing a reason they might have lost. or a better one, "Did you know the enemy team pinged 135 more times then your team." stating they had more communication then your team.
Personalized tips is an interesting idea, but making sure it's personalized, meaningful, and relevant each time is actually decently complex.
Have you considered removing the lock in button in normals? Normals aren't as long in terms of championselect times as draft mode because everybody picks at the same time. It would take away one reason that people give for why they aren't playing as a team ("too late, I already locked my champion in"). They can of course feign ignorance like they always have, or realize that have no way to justify their actions.
When analyzing or assessing a feature like this, we have to take a look at the value we're adding given the costs/risks. If the majority of Champion Select lobbies have instant lock trolls who irritate and harass their own team, then a feature like this might add a really high value by removing their ability to frustrate others (though one could always argue they'd just act toxic in a different manner because we haven't solved the problem and only removed a channel the problem is vented through).

However, the data suggests that the number of lobbies that end with instant locking and the players are frustrated or pissed off about it is in the minority. Given the data, removing the lock would only arbitrarily increase the duration of Champion Select for many lobbies which I believe is too high of a cost to solve a problem that only a minority of lobbies have.
Lyte, I'm rather interested in this area of expertise. I'd like to know what requirements would a gaming company look for to hire someone like you? What degree field did you specialize in? Do you hold multiple degrees? If so, which ones?
Any advice is appreciated here, I see this field expanding quite a bit in the coming decades and would love to be a part of it.
Rioters on the Player Behavior team have a wide variety of backgrounds. My background was a Bachelors in Psychology, Masters in Cognitive Psychology and PhD in Neuroscience. A fellow researcher that works with the Player Behavior team often is davin, who has a PhD in Human Factors Psychology. Drevarius is an Associate Game Designer on the team and has a Masters in Rocket Science (kidding, it's Aeronautics) and RoamingNumeral is a Design Analyst on the team with a Masters in Bioinformatics.

One of the coolest parts of working on this team is that everyone contributes. It doesn't matter if you're an artist, engineer, sound engineer or UX designer--great ideas can come from everyone and we're always learning from each other everyday.
If you actually do manage to leave this, may I ask, is anything being done about Leavers atm? Or is this outside your area of expertise?
Statistically the enemy team has a slightly higher chance of getting a leaver than your own...except that means squat because winning a 5v4 is still a boring unsatisfying waste of time.
And to incorporate leavers into your theory. Leavers cause just as much toxicity as an a-hole, as not only is their lack of presence frustrating, but even when they are on the enemy's side, they are still a negative experience. Try to imagine a person plagued by leavers on his own team for as series of game, and he finally wins the next game...solely because of a leaver on the enemy's team.
Can you imagine how invalidating it feels that you just won only because you got an insane advantage over the enemy? Not to mention, that's 20+ minutes off of playing an actual fun 5v5 game.
LeaverBuster does a decent job of punishing Leavers who leave intentionally; however, we're always going to have a small % of games have a Leaver that either disconnects because of ISP issues, weather issues, or some other unintentional cause.

What kind of ideas do players have to address both kinds of Leavers?

The difference between EUW and NA

Originally Posted by Riot (View RedTracker Source)

Riot said before "even if EUW is a bigger community you guys give 10 times less feedback" so in other words this community have tons of time to complain but 0 time help this game to improve
EU can be a bear pit for feedback, the biggest problem being people who try and hijack them with 'they don't care anyway' posts. It takes time and effort to sit on the forums spamming about Reds not caring that is actively negative to their stated goal.

One of the best things people can do is downvote and ignore.

I was talking with designers the other week, in person, and they want to post here. The biggest problem is time, time and the effort of repetition. When you've discussed something at length it's hard to hold the same thing again and then again for EUNE. We don't mandate or force any discussion, there's Rioters who have real contact with the Community yet they never post. We'd never force someone to do something as it's just not real.

I always hit people up with discussion here, Meddler and Scarizard were both going to hit the Rengar/Dragon threads unfortunately there was a problem with their accounts. They got the feedback, but couldn't join in. It's usually very mundane reasons why we don't see a post on a certain subject that has nothing to do with not wanting to come here, which sucks and drives me as crazy as you guys.

I personally believe there's a lot more we can do on this front, but that it isn't just Red posts and the forums. I want to talk about this more, but I'm actually in the midst of investigating it at the moment and I'll have a thread about that side soon. I don't believe this is just a forum thing at all as when we have had some of the most Red activity here (Design activity too) we have still seen the same responses about no reds posting.

One thing to say is that when we have a full team we regularly match NA red post ratios in all languages (Red posts - regular posts), the issue is that NA volume of both is always more vast and always the comparison.


Mordekaiser's [PBE] QoL Change

Originally Posted by Riot (View RedTracker Source)

So no Q isolation indicator
well, not soon in any case. that one requires a bit more legwork to make sure we're going with the best method, and it would take artist resources to create as well. the task itself is fairly straightforward, but as soon as more than one person is involved (especially cross-discipline) then the chances of it being an immediate change drop significantly.

in this particular case, the cost-benefit ratio of the change in isolation is probably such that we'd bundle something like this in with a visual update (since we'd have to get together a team anyway, and they'd have all the necessary people to just make it happen).
Couldn't you just retool the code/tech used for Kha'Zix?
i don't know how mordekaiser's ability is scripted offhand, so it might be possible to use that as a starting point, but tbh i personally don't think that would be the best way of communicating the effect (or even a great way). i'd rather custom make something for mace of spades. then again, i am very much a minimalist when it comes to these things, and i often want high returns—it's harder to do that when you borrow something made for someone else. we'll figure it out once we set aside some dedicated time for mordekaiser. :3


More from the PBE Discussion

Originally Posted by Riot (View RedTracker Source)

Hey Riot, can I get some more clarification?
The Nidalee AR/MR debuff, as well as the vision granted being nerfed.
Are those things only for Twisted Treeline and Crystal Scar? I could see why being revealed for 12 seconds on such a small map would be powerful, as well as a 40% defense reduction, but on Summoner's Rift those are one of her key skills. At the very least at max rank it should remain the same, but have a nerfed early game.
So, the nerfs to her traps are 100% purely on other maps BESIDES Summoner's Rift?
Thank you ahead of time!
Edit: I know Morello hates free stats, but the fact a Volibear could step on a trap made it a bit easier for Nidalee to poke and harass him. If they were to nerf the trap to a 3 second-something reduction, and a 20% stat reduction, it would be pleasant to receive the stats on Aspect of the Cougar to 10/20/30 at each respective level. This would make AD Nidalee viable again, while making her AP form more high risk high reward.
I should have clarified more, I suppose, but those changes are map-specific to Twisted Treeline and Crystal Scar.
Could you clarify this? If I'm understanding correctly, Blade Waltz works like this:
Non-stealthed target not in brush: travel to target, damage target.
Non-stealthed target in brush: travel to target, reveal target, damage target.
Stealthed target not in brush: travel to target, don't reveal target, don't damage target.
Untargetable (Zhonya's, etc.) target not in brush: travel to target, don't damage target.
Stealthed/untargetable target in brush: same as above.
So, it seems like the two big changes are as follows:
1) Fiora will travel to any enemy champion in range of Blade Waltz, regardless of whether she can see or target them.
2) Upon arrival, Fiora checks whether she can see or target the enemy champion. If she can, after traveling to them, she deals damage. If she can't, even after traveling to them, she doesn't deal damage.
Is that about right?
Correct! I'll snip pieces out of this for the official patch notes just to clarify further.

For those of you asking about Fiora being able to get hit by projectiles even after she begins her ult (I'm assuming as long as they're mid-flight), I'll ask about that. If it's a lot of coding work, it could introduce some risk to a stable build and there are other considerations to take in, but I'll at least raise the point with Volty.

Speaking of build stability, I'll copy paste the same thing I mentioned on EUW about Olaf not being in 3.11 now:

We're actually planning to pull him from this build. With the World Finals coming up, build stability is of incredible importance, so we're being extra careful. If this were just a regular patch we might be okay with trying out Olaf but this isn't the case.

Morello has mentioned that Live Design is happy with Olaf's overall design direction, but there are certain build considerations (bug fixes, etc) to take into account. So there we have that.
Why is it that the world tournament takes precedent over other player's enjoyment? In regards to pieces of the patch being held back in favour of a more stable live environment for worlds, that is.
I'll clarify this additionally: Olaf also currently has stability issues that would make us leery even in a regular deploy. In other words, we are on the fence about deploying him with 3.11 regardless. This has everything to do with player enjoyment world-wide if his changes come out buggy.

What tipped the scales in favor of pulling him from the patch was that we also have a huge tournament happening around this time and so we value server stability just a little more. Was it enough of a reason to pull him on that alone? No. Did it influence our decision making process as we weighed risks? Yes. So it's not just a single if A then B kind of situation - it's more of a "hmmm maybe we shouldn't do it." "Oh this is happening, well this makes the decision easier even if we might have made this same decision."
I have been waiting YEARS for Fiora's ult to work like it's supposed to, and it has been a source of frustration since her release. But, that having been said, I'm just happy enough that it's finally getting looked at, and I can wait a couple weeks for it to make the patch.
I think the question I have is what do you think Fiora's ult is supposed to work like?

Also we did not "pull" Fiora from some other patch. She was always intended for this patch (or should be) - we split 3.10 up due to other problems. Stability is important to us regardless of it being a world finals patch or not, so these were choices made in the name of stability alone. It's not a great player experience if we hit game crashing bugs in the name of getting content out super fast.
- It will not pop projectiles
- It will not protect you from DoT damage
- It will not delay damage
- It will not clear turret agro.
- It is occasionally vulnerable to skill shots mid-ult
- Bots, with their insane timing, can target you during it.
Some skills are about popping projectiles and effectively blocking or counterspelling incoming attacks. Some skills are about providing a period of untargetability so that no new attacks can be made. Blade Waltz is in the latter camp. You can partly tell because it has a cast time, which I wouldn't condone for a skill that is meant to be used to interrupt incoming attacks like Vlad pool or Fizz's hop.

So that's why it doesn't pop projectiles. That's also why it doesn't block DoT damage.

I'm not sure I understand delaying damage. From what I can tell, Yi's Alpha Strike doesn't delay projectiles or damage. I've also asked around about this, and so I'm pretty sure he doesn't delay anything. It might be that he seems like he's delaying but from carefully watching your health displayed at the bottom center of the UI you can see that damage is applied on time.

Blade Waltz does actually clear turret aggro, but turrets are (right now) trying to reacquire Fiora as a target when she damages enemies under the turret. The game visually suggests that this is working, when in fact the turret aggro is re-dropped as Fiora is untargetable. She can be picked up again by the turret after she comes out of the ult.

I've tested and you can't be struck by skill shots or area of effect spells during Blade Waltz. Same for bots targeting me during the effect. I've tried this out against bots repeatedly, slowing the game down to carefully examine the interaction, and Annie bots will patiently wait to cast their Disintegrates until Blade Waltz is entirely complete.

I hope this helps clear up some of the understanding around Blade Waltz's behaviors. I'm personally very excited to play with the more consistent version of Blade Waltz coming out in 3.11.


Champion and skin sale: 8.27 - 8.30

Originally Posted by Riot (View RedTracker Source)

Give your champions a new look with these skins, on sale for a limited time:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Add these champions to your roster, on sale for a limited time:

  • Lissandra 487 RP

 

 


Free Champion Rotation

Originally Posted by Riot (View Original Source)

Greetings Summoners!

Here are this week's free champions:

Week 30 (this week):

Wondering how we picked this week's free champions? Read up on it HERE.

See you on the Fields of Justice!

23

Comments

  • #20 Vuldin

    Reason why Nunu is so fun is the bush+ultie thing -.-

  • #23 ichigo2979

    I agree. They actually changed that quite a few patches ago (maybe season 2) and everyone got super mad. They changed it back, but if they want to make casting spells from brush consistent, you shouldn't be able to see Nunu but at least be able to see the giant circle of ice outside the brush.

    Either way, no more Empire. Hope they make an exception for Nunu.

  • #18 Pikohchu

    Here's some facts:
    * Autoattacks will always reveal you through brush
    Nunu's ultimate (Absolute Zero) doesn't reveal him in brush while he's charging
    Blitzcrank Rocket Grabs will show you his fist but not Blitzcrank himself
    Nidalee throwing her spears (Q) also doesn't reveal her
    Taric's Dazzle does reveal him
    Nunu's Iceball will reveal him

     

    This is pretty logical. Anything that requires an enemy target (aka targeted spells and autoattacks) reveal you, while skillshots do not. Because you can miss skillshots and it would be pretty freaking stupid to get revealed when you throw a skillshot, say in the opposite direction in the mid lane bush.

    Nunu's ult shouldn't reveal while casting because it's a pbaoe spell and he's able to cast it while not actually having a target. 

    I think it does make sense with this pattern to reveal when skillshots hit an enemy.

    And of course, skillshots that exit the brush are visible but not the champion. This seems odd on Blitz because we may think of his grabbing arm as a part of his "body" but it's not really part of the hitbox of his actual body. It's just a skillshot.

  • #24 ichigo2979

    I think you clarified really well how skillshot vs. targeted spells work when used in brush. But if you want consistency then Nunu's ult should be visible =/

    You don't see the caster for skillshot spells but you do see the casted skillshot's particles when it exits the brush. Therefore Nunu shoudn't be revealed when he ults but the gigantic ice circle should, even before it damages anyone... Not saying I want that but that's how the logic goes..

    Last edited by ichigo2979: 8/29/2013 1:19:00 AM
  • #25 Pikohchu

    Hmm. You're right. I do really like Nunu in the brush though.

  • #16 n4zArh

    Honestly, I don't write a thing on official forums (about champions, changes to them etc) because... yeah, I think that Riot don't care. We don't see much REDs in topics, I don't even know if anyone reads them after all. There were some about some quite serious bugs or problems with no responce at all. Wanna change this? Put some people to read topics, then send them to you, then present us your responce...

  • #12 guidooo4

    4-man premades can be sooo toxic. Had some really, really awfull games with that. "You go support or report" I've got no problems with going support, but I don't like being blackmailed into it.

     

  • #13 KingOfThe23Stars

    +10000000000.....

    I Totally Agree That! I Hate That! Riot Is Working On New Solo Q And New System For Lane Calling (Or No Calling Anymore)

    So I Hope It Comes Faster Than "Soon"*TM

    But As Long As I Read Nothing About That In Here, Im Scared That They Forgot It

  • #11 Gameguy301
    People STILL dont know tribunal cases are reviewed by riot after the players take a crack? Maybe they should give the player base some reminders.
    Last edited by Gameguy301: 8/27/2013 9:20:14 AM
  • #14 Pikohchu

    Which then brings up the point of why the players' opinion is needed at that point anyways.

  • #15 Gameguy301
    Players judging players is a really easy way for riot to take a peak at what we find punishable. By seeing what we punish or let slide try can get a read on what we do and do not find acceptable from each other.
  • #17 Pikohchu

    I'm prettier sure most Rioters play the game regularly too, so they are like, in with the LoL culture(?) I'm having trouble in picking words today....

  • #19 Gameguy301
    Right but the data they represent could 1. Be a potential conflict of interest and 2. Be small in scope and scale 3. Be "containsted" by the riot tag on their names.

    Even if the behavioral input of riot staff is readily usable truck loads of data from around the world will always paint a better picture. As they say some data is good, tons of data is great.
    Last edited by Gameguy301: 8/27/2013 7:43:21 PM
  • #2 dnagemo

    Bought lux yesterday , goes free this week >.< , god damnit riot.

  • #3 typhus88

    Dude, just send in an email and they'll refund you half the points.

  • #4 suchareq3

    What? It's not a sale, it's champion rotation...

  • #6 drdressup

    wat

  • #7 lysfor

    You will be able to play it after the free week, so I dont see a problem

  • #1 ichigo2979

    woah i though rocket girl trist was so much more expensive, even if it was to be on sale... :)

    "Going by your anecdote, if a large number of your games have at least 1 rager, troll or rage-quitter, you are still seeing up to 9 other players in the game that are neutral or sportsmanlike. This is the data that we see as well, which suggests that a vast majority of the community is pretty awesome."

    I've never really thought about how easy it is to ruin a game. All it takes is one selfish or otherwise immature player to make what is supposed to be a fun, engaging experience to a tiring, stressful, and sometimes enraging one. 

    Meet a few of those people in a row (some days it's not hard) and you start to think that everyone is immature and stupid when in reality it's 1 or 2 out of 10 people.

    It's been said before but you really have to "learn" this stuff several times before it really sticks, I suppose. Before you forget it a month later;;;

  • #5 MarcoFoxRoberto

    I highly doubt only 1 in 10 players is toxic. I bet they are either using a bad sample, or obstructing the data they have on that.

    Also, players are more toxic when they are losing, so in most games, there are usually only half of the players will "manifest" toxic play (unless the game is extremelly tied).

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