Xerath Coming to PBE, Caitlyn's E, Upcoming Rune Balance Changes & Support Discussion, Welcome to the Finals Contest

Xerath Coming to PBE

Originally Posted by Riot (View RedTracker Source)


After some discussion, we're going to leak Xerath to PBE early in an experimental extra-long PBE incubation cycle.

Setting expectations:

We've adjusted Xerath based on the feedback from this thread, our own judgement calls and a lot of experimentation. We have him in a rough balance state - we don't have a good sense yet for how he works out competitively or if he's balanced for most center-lane play.

However, I do want to get a lot of player eyes on him to see what small tweaks we can make to polish him heavily before release.

With that understanding...

Name: xerathface.jpg Views: 252 Size: 4.4 KB
I'm going to sneak him onto PBE for a couple days a week sometime *after* 3.11 ships.

Certainlyt on Caitlyn's E

Originally Posted by Riot (View RedTracker Source)

The rules for dash interruption are consistent throughout the game, even if they are a little unclear. Let me explain:

90 Caliber Net's dash/jump (the two are mechanically identical) will not be stopped if you are stunned or rooted mid-flight but will be stopped if you are stunned or rooted during the spell's cast time. This is consistent with at least the vast majority of our non-ultimate dash/jumps with cast times (I suppose there could be an odd exception somewhere, though I can't think of one now).

The Blitzcrank interaction is how all dash/jumps work -- his movement ability always "wins" because either you are casting when it hits you (in which case, you are stunned when the cast completes) or are in flight (in which case his takes priority since the most recently applied movement effect always takes priority over earlier movement effects. On the other hand, teleports with cast times will teleport the player even if they have been hooked provided the cast has already begun.

Why these rules exist is quite frankly beyond me, but they are certainly consistent.
I noticed you said dashes/jumps with cast times; what about Gragas? Hs dash does not have a cast time, and can be stopped mid-dash by almost anything, which is actually a little frustrating at times. My guess is that this is intentional, is that because he doesn't have a cast time?
Again, this is factually inaccurate: Gragas' Body Slam is not interrupted by stuns or roots, just by other movement effects (for example, knockups) or by him colliding with a non-allied unit.
Is Nautilus's hook different? The other day I escaped a blitz hook by leaping to a wall, and Nautilus's anchor attached after Blitz started pulling me.
Yes, it is an exception! The same goes for Bandage Toss, Dragon Strike + Demacian Standard, etc. Spells that move you not when the cast itself completes but on the completion of some additional event will generally function even while rooted/stunned.

I agree that greater consistency is desirable as a principle, but I wonder how general we need to be. For example, non-movement spells with cast times all complete even if the caster is stunned during the middle of the spell (as anyone who has stunned Ezreal as he casts Arcane Barrage is sure to have noticed). One could argue that movement spells should obey the overall rule for spell casts and move the caster. However, I think it would be odd for Tristana to leap into the air 0.24 seconds after she was hit by Dazzle.

In this case, there are good motivations behind the distinctions we make -- in this case, we have structured the system to minimize the number of situations in which spell casts are wasted entirely but still put on cooldown. Caitlyn cannot begin casting 90 Caliber Net while rooted, so she is only able to "fail" the cast if rooted during the brief time between cast begin and cast complete (0.25 seconds -- the same cast time or shorter than almost all of our non-ultimate stuns/roots). In this case, we have chosen to break a "tie" in two players beginning their cast simultaneously in favor of the stun/root caster. Nautilus, on the other hand, can't very well be locked out of casting his Q while rooted since its primary use case is not movement and so would frequently cast his Q only to find out that in our drive for consistency, we had set him up for failure (he was rooted when he cast the spell).

Perhaps a good compromise would be for us as a design team to more actively explain our game rules so that when confronted with seeming oddities like this players could quickly learn about them rather than having to fish for forum responses or conduct elaborate custom game tests.

Upcoming Rune Balance Changes & Support Discussion

Originally Posted by Riot (View RedTracker Source)

i tend to play support more than anything else right now, but that's mostly because of how much i love nami. :3

as far as advice goes, probably the most beneficial thing i could say is invest in g/10. it is so important—the earlier you can get it, the better.

g/10 cost to maintain support consumables:
sight ward - 4.16g/10 each
vision ward - 6.94g/10 each (cost is 1.66g/10 less for every 'ward kill average per pink')
oracle's - 16.66g/10

assuming you have philo, kage's, g/10 quints, and g/10 masteries (14g/10 total), you have enough bonus g/10 to keep two pink wards out at all time without cutting into your ambient, assist, or objective gold. with ruby on top of that, you can have 5 wards out on the map at all times without cutting into your base gold generation (which can all be going toward oracle's and item growth).
The early rune advantage helps make it so that early game your ADC gets about 10 more CS if you play it right on average. They need the gold more than you do, AND whose to say that 25 armor doesn't translate well into lategame as "free" stats (armor seals + Quints instead of gp/10)? That's about 500 gold worth of stats, which would otherwise take 17 minutes with gp/10s to get. I personally feel it is better to snowball the game in those first 17 minutes rather than wait until 17 minutes to be cost effective.
well, g/10 seals aren't in a great place right now. not because the g/10 isn't good, but because pretty much no one in the game can afford to not take +13 armor right now. quints are certainly viable—it's very common for pros to take 1 or more g/10 quints (regardless of support champion). part of the reason players make the trade-off for seals and not quints is that running armor quints likely won't help your team as much as getting your g/10 items earlier, or being able to afford and extra ward or two when leaving the fountain. so assuming you're not the type to mix and match your runes within a given type, i'd recommend the following:
2.25 g/10 < 13 armor
3.00 g/10 > 12 armor

as for whether to build philo or sightstone first, there are actually reasons for both (it depends on whether the lane is often pushed or pulled, how easily you're controlling the lane brush, the enemy jungler, and timing). the important thing is to finish one as quickly as possible. if you aren't sure which to get first, i'd almost always recommend getting philo—the first support to get their philosopher's stone often has an advantage in the vision war once mid game rolls into that.

also, lucky pick is really good. the g/10 is nice of course, but more importantly the items it builds into are really good for supports—having twin shadows or morellonomicon can have a huge effect later in a game. that said, kage's ends up being a luxury item more often than not.
1) Are the armor seals going to see any changes? Or perhaps is it indicative of another problem? (Too low base armor?)
i don't have any specifics yet, but my next large project involves rune balance and level 1 stats. so when i start doing work on that, i'll be sure to look into armor seals and champion base stats.

2)How does rushing philo beat sightstone with vision wars? Sightstone gives free wards, philo does not. Almost all tournament supports opt for Ruby Sightstone, Kindlegem, Boots, and then all wards; no philo here.
it's better to look at sightstone in terms of g/10. if you always have two wards on the map at all times, then sightstone is worth ~8.3g/10 (ruby is ~12.5g/10) that you can only spend on sight wards. having 5g/10 from philo that you can spend on anything (e.g., sight wards, vision wards, oracle's elixir, sightstone, etc) is much more flexible. also, philo is cheaper by 250g which could buy you two vision wards.

as to your second point, professional supports often build (ruby) sightstone, boots of speed, and philo stone as their first three items. looking at the 24 games played for weeks 1 and 3 of ogn's champions summer 2013, of the 48 support builds at end of game only 3 of them had built an item after sightstone and boots that wasn't a philo stone. so, 45 out of 48 times sampled in the group stages of a current professional tournament, a philo stone was purchased by a support.

3)I really like the items that build out of lucky pick, but it's just an awful item. Any way Kage's could be looked at for buffs/rework? AP is decent, but it is very cost-inefficient and is more of a "win-more" item than not.
kage's is in a decent place right now, imo. the reason supports don't buy it as much as they would normally probably has more to do with them having to spend such a large portion of their gold income on consumables and less to do with the item not being super efficient. also, it's difficult to buff it as a base item considering its more offensive upgrades. so while i disagree that it's an awful item right now, i do think it's correct to think of it as a 'win more' item for supports. at least for the time being.

Welcome to the Finals Contest

Originally Posted by Riot (View Original Source)


Do you want to be there when legends are made?

A spectacular LCS season has come to a close in Europe.  All the emotion and passion of the past year culminated in an action-packed climax at Gamescom in Germany.  And for three European teams, the dream is still alive as they head to Los Angeles for the Season 3 World Championship.

Beginning on the 15th of September, fourteen International teams will face off until only two remain. Then one team will rise above all others to claim the Summoner’s Cup and the title of Season 3 champions. The legendary Staples Center in Los Angeles will host 20,000 screaming fans for the final best-of-five showdown.  It promises to be a historic night.

We are offering five European Summoners the chance to join Riot on an exciting journey: an all-expenses paid trip to L.A. to hang out with Rioters, visit Riot’s LA office and attend the League of Legends Season 3 World Championship Finals!

To enter, we want to see your creativity in action. Using everyday objects, create a full build of six powerful new items for use on the Fields of Justice. This can be anything from the Extra-slot Backpack of Power to Teemo’s Socks of Increased Movement Speed. See some more examples below.

How to Participate

  • Download the template
  • Take pictures of 6 everyday objects around you to turn into imaginary League of Legends items
  • Drop the photos into the template
    • You can use any image editing software you like. Gimp (http://www.gimp.org) and PhotoScape (http://www.photoscape.org) are two freeware programs you can download for this
    • Add descriptions for your items
    • You should end up with an image like this one:


  • Submit your photo here. The file format must be .jpg, .gif, .bmp or .png
  • Submissions  will be open from August 30th at 15:00 GMT+1 until September 4th at 23.59 GMT+1
  • On September 7th, 100 winners will be chosen, including the 5 grand prize winners who will come with us to Los Angeles for the Season 3 World Championship Finals.
    • Prizes:
      • 100th to 51st – 4 Win IP Boost
      • 50th to 26th – 10 Win IP Boost
      • 25th to 11th – Lucian + launch skin & Thresh + launch skin
      • 10th to 6th – TPA Bundle (Champions and skins)
      • 5th to 1st – We’ll be bringing you to the League of Legends Season 3 World Championship Finals!

Post your images on our page: http://beta.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/contest/welcome-finals




  • #24 klocugh12

    It doesn't have to be, if velocity is sufficient. That is pretty simple law.

  • #26 Mockstar

    Quote from klocugh12 »

    It doesn't have to be, if velocity is sufficient. That is pretty simple law.

    If the net is 1/10 of her mass (which is way too high, reasonably), then it needs to move ten times faster than she does to have the equation be balanced. And it doesn't do that in game. So, let's remember that this is a game and there are no physics in it.

  • #28 JocularThePeasant

    The game only needs to have a basis in reality; enough that we can easily understand/accept it but not too much that it becomes boring. People want to live vicariously through Legends after all.

  • #29 GentlemanGustaf

    Quote from Mockstar »

    Quote from klocugh12 »

    It doesn't have to be, if velocity is sufficient. That is pretty simple law.

    If the net is 1/10 of her mass (which is way too high, reasonably), then it needs to move ten times faster than she does to have the equation be balanced. And it doesn't do that in game. So, let's remember that this is a game and there are no physics in it.

     I'm much more ok with a shockingly massive net than action at a distance. What, would caitlyn not go back until the net hit something?

  • #30 JocularThePeasant

    I don't understand this comment, Gustaf. Are you saying you'd rather have a realistic net gun instead of a physics-defying skill that only works when you hit something? I don't think most people believe that her skill works like that currently or would indeed prefer it that way.

    I think it's fine how it is. No need for a more realistic physics interaction, nor an unrealistic change.

  • #31 GentlemanGustaf

    No, I was saying that the net pushing her back as she shoots it doesn't bother me anymore than bodies flying when hit by bullets bothers me. What would just be weird is a skill that only launches her back if it hits something (as somebody suggested)

    I was saying that I'm willing to suspend my belief that the net can go forward as much as she goes back. I wouldn't be willing to suspend my belief about action at a distance (the net pushing her back after hitting something).

  • #33 JocularThePeasant

    Ah. Yes, I'm fairly certain you're not alone there. Some things are just easier to accept than others, and this is just such a case.

  • #34 klocugh12

    Because accepting sth that generally happens IRL but it would take ridiculous numbers for it to go like described is easier than accepting sth that just doesn't happen IRL.

  • #2 NightOfWallachia

    I feel that GP quints are just too useless at the moment as they don't offer ANYTHING during laning and those sit in the back type of supports like Soraka are pretty much eliminated by the meta. So right now pretty much every botlane support needs actual stats to either poke or engage.

    I also feel that there's really no reason to rush a philosopher stone because the HP from the sightstone during engages is just too important. Not having that 180 HP from the sightstone is pretty much putting up a sign to tell enemy botlane to play aggressive and all in your ass since you're having no actual combat stats for laning. Plus it gives you wards immediately while for philo, you are waiting for the passive GP10 to pay off for the philo before you start having free wards. Rushing it for the regen is not really worth it either because you can just use pots.

    Last edited by NightOfWallachia: 8/30/2013 10:39:42 PM
  • #4 buuuurp

    Uh... actually philo stone does give you wards immediately because it's 250 gold cheaper.  That's 3 wards, whereas sightstone only gives you 2 wards simultaneously.  And philo stone builds from support starting items...

    Please stop spreading misinformation.  People jump on LCS bandwagons because they don't understand the difference between solo queue and team play, then make up untrue arguments like this to support their faulty logic.

  • #6 NightOfWallachia

    "In 6 minutes, if you have 21 GP10 total, you’ll get 726 gold from passive generation. Even if don’t get a single creep or assist, you’ll have about enough money for a Ruby Crystal, 3 more wards and a pot. In another 475, which only takes about four minutes, you can get a
    sightstone. Another 600 is Ruby Sightstone.

    A Philosopher’s Stone costs 700. It pays for itself after 23 minutes and twenty seconds. It doesn’t actually help you buy wards because it you’re paying 700 gold for it in the first place.

    And, the thing Sightstone-haters forget: you can replace if someone pinks you or if you need to “move” a ward. You’re taking a stack out each time; it buys you more vision time than two wards does, because two wards covers decently for 3 minutes, but a sightstone does for 6.

    So, a Philo Stone build with both stones and boots costs 1975 for regular stone and 2575 for ruby. If you buy a Philosopher’s Stone, that’s two wards every minute, and you’ve spent 700 already. Plus you will have to buy more regular wards to depend on, so you won’t be finishing your sightstone until later.

    A build without Philosopher’s Stone that has Sightstone and boots costs 1275 on regular stone and 1875 on Ruby, and will have purchased fewer regular wards on the way there."

    Quoting a ROG article

    Last edited by NightOfWallachia: 8/30/2013 11:48:08 PM
  • #12 buuuurp

    lolz.  That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.  Philo stone doesn't help you buy wards because it's paying for itself?  SO WTF DO YOU THINK SIGHTSTONE DOES?  Holy shit... the amount of stupid...  If when you buy a ward whilst possessing a philo stone doesn't count as helping to buy wards because you have to cover 700 gold, then placing wards with a sightstone doesn't help either because IT also needs to pay for itself first?  Am I wrong?  

    Last edited by buuuurp: 8/31/2013 12:16:06 AM
  • #15 NightOfWallachia

    A philo + 3 wards vs sightstone, both are very close to 950 gold:

    Let's look at both over a period of 15minutes over 3 minute intervals.

    Let's just say you use 2 wards at a time, one for lanebrush and one for river. You'd have to go back after 3 minutes since one ward alone is not enough to be safe. Spending another 75 gold for another ward then you stay for another 3 minutes before you have to back. Rinse and repeat. During this 15 minute interval you've bought 10 wards costing 750 gold while your philo grants 450 gold. Not counting the first 3 wards you bought, you spent 525 gold. Net gain: negative 75 gold and cutting into your ambient gold.

    While with a sightstone you can stay up to 6 minutes at a time because you have 5 charges. During those 15 minutes, you use up 10 charges costing nothing. Essentially saving yourself 750 gold. Net gain: Zero gold and still have your ambient gold to spend on oracles.


  • #1 Elmanbeastio

    I wouldnt mind seeing certain runes being reworked/disappear into more base stats. I hate that I have to run +13 armor basically 99% of the time, and sometimes I can run hp per lvl.

    Its too easy to get one shot by anything, especially the dozens of champs with built in arP(j4, vi wuk renek)

    Last edited by Elmanbeastio: 8/30/2013 10:30:39 PM
  • To post a comment, please or register a new account.
Posts Quoted:
Clear All Quotes