Jinx Feedback and New Info, More on Xerath, Co-Op Vs. AI 'Not Abandoned', Data on Reports Coming Soon, Lucian's Laugh Reference

Important: Unofficial PBE Patch Notes for 9/27/2013 - Jinx's E Now With The Right Graphics


Jinx Feedback and New Info

Originally Posted by Riot (View RedTracker Source)

Greetings PBE Summoners,
Super excited to get champ #116 out and available for testing on the PBE.

At this point Jinx needs no introduction. She's scrawny, she's smiling, and she's out to wreak havoc on the Fields of Justice.

Jinx is all about employing her arsenal of weapons to play a constant game of "Catch me if you can," with the enemy team. She uses the massive range on her rockets and shock pistol to throw out damage and CC from the relative safety of a fight's outskirts, waiting for a perfect window (or kill) to run in and unload with her minigun. Careful though, Jinx has no on-demand mobility and her CC is somewhat unreliable. Zap! has a cast time and the flame chompers take a bit to arm so if you get too close to that enemy Vi before the time is right you might just find yourself getting your face punched in. Play the game well however and you'll be racking in the penta-kills as you run down your hapless opponents one by one.

I have X major things I'm looking for feedback on:

A) What are the high moments and frustrations you experience playing as or against Jinx?
- Is this a champion you enjoy playing? Is this a champion that you are okay having on the opposing team? What aspects of her are frustrating? What aspects are really cool?

B) Is Jinx someone you feel is worth bringing to a team?
-Assuming she eventually hits a "balanced" state, when you see someone on your team pick her are you going to feel good about it? Why or why not?

C) Rockets vs. Minigun. Do you feel they're both worth using?
-Do you feel that both guns have clear moments in game where they seem useful and make you want to switch to them? Why or why not?

If you have any feedback that doesn't fall under one of the above topics I'd still love to hear it, be it gameplay, art, or otherwise. Will pass it all along to the respective parties.

If you find a bug don't post it here!
There's another thread for that: http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com....php?t=3898302

PS - Jinx fun facts
Rocket splash can crit but doesn't apply on-hits in the AoE
PowPow's attack speed buff will only benefit Jinx's first attack after switching to rockets.
When using Jinx's skin it is mandatory to yell "CORKED 'EM" whenever you hit a W.
/L
HurricaneAs the live guy I would like to add one point of importance.

I highly encourage you to try her out/ play against her in the PBE before you post feedback.

Jinx has a great deal of checks built into the kit that are not visible when you just read the skill descriptions, your feedback will be much more valuable if it comes from firsthand experience.
(which is true for all characters, but is to a greater degree for Jinx)

In-game model vs. splash is noted. Going to pass that feedback along in the morning.
---------------

Originally Posted by Riot (View RedTracker Source)

Please report any bugs you find on Jinx here.

Be sure to give us repro steps so Squad5 and I can hunt down and eviscerate any bugs you discover as fast as possible.

Thanks in advance summoners!

WE ALREADY KNOW ABOUT THE W BEAM NOT SHOWING WHEN FIRED UPHILL AND ARE WORKING TO FIX IT.Oh and chompers are missing an asset right now. Should be little snare grenades like in the icon, not Jinx clones.

Thanks for these reports guys, looking into them. Also, please keep this post restricted to bug reports only to make things easier to track. For feedback on the champion itself please use this thread -- http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com....php?t=3898293. Thanks again!
--------------------

Originally Posted by Riot (View RedTracker Source)

As title says, I'm curious as to what inspired Jinx. Upon reading Vi's report of who Jinx is, and reading the vandalism messages from our dearly beloved #116, I cannot help but be reminded of the Joker of DC fame (with Vi here acting as a more bloodthirsty Dark Knight, if you will).
To make it clear, I'm not some random dude flaming about "LOL YOU GUYS SO ORIGINAL", because I recognize everyone gets inspiration from quite literally everything they experience, so attacking a person's originality has no merit at all. I'm asking what exactly inspired the apparently anarchic, crazy "I'm a crazy mothaf***a because IT'S SO DAMN FUN!" attitude of the champion.
I'm insanely curious about this, so any response at all would be appreciated
Hello there! I know I'm not the great and powerful gypsylord but I hope it will suffice that I'm jinx's concept & splash artist
I dreamed up jinx over a year ago now, I pitched her because there weren't any champions in LoL just yet who met my desires for a completely insane female villain champion, we have some ladies on the side of no-good but I really wanted a girl who is totally beyond any kind of reform or rehabilitation, I drew a lot of inspiration from the joker character (especially heath ledger's joker) and also gollum form lord of the rings, and a bit of helena bonham carter because she plays crazy people really well!

P.S. I also really wanted to introduce a different female silhouette & body type with jinx

Hope that helped!!
I have just one curiosity - what is a "chomper", in Flame Chompers? And why does it spawn 3 (rear faced) clones of Jynx? What was the inspiration in this ability, why the clones, and not something more along the lines of Zigg's Hexplosive Minefield? I just don't understand why she spawns clones, and how? She's not magical (is she?) Jynx seems to be heavily reliant on her guns, but where do the clones come from? For some reason this really bothers me, and some insight to your thought process would be great.


RiotTeaTime pls!
-Concerned, curious Summoner
The clones there are placeholders basically - the model for the flame chompers isn't yet available on PBE. Gypsylord's sorting out an issue with them at the moment, they are indeed a trap like thing though.
---------------------

Originally Posted by Riot (View RedTracker Source)

Want to clear up misinformation going around about the ranges and AS buffs.

Base range in Minigun is 525
Rocket range at max rank is 700

Max rank minigun gains 130% AS when fully stacked (after 3 attacks)
Base attack speed is .625
AS per level is 1%
----------------------

Originally Posted by Riot (View RedTracker Source)

Cause those are fun to play against right?
The frustration that Nidalee Spears can sometimes create was an issue raised during Jinx's development and the team working on her identified a couple of useful tuning points for Zap as a result. The first one is the ground indicator created by Zap that communicates both the path and the time until firing for the projectile. The second is that while the shot's quite fast it does have a moderate cast time, giving opponents a reasonable amount of time to react in (kind of like Caitlyn's Q, if it were cast somewhat faster but single target). The result is that, based off our internal playtesting, Zap's a fun spell both to use and to play against. Might still be some tuning to do based off final testing of course, considering this is something I feel the team's done a really good job of though.
Does this mean changes to nids spear will be coming down the pipe line anytime? I would hope not, but I fear yes.

I'm just assuming this since it sounds like you think nid spears are a problem.
It's something we've talked about, no immediate plans at least though, besides some small updates to improve visibility of missiles as they emerge from fog of war coming directly at you at some point. Important to bear in mind that Jinx and Nidalee have pretty different kits too. Jinx has multiple other means of dealing damage beyond normal auto attack range for example, so what's appropriate for one is not necessarily appropriate for the other.
Of course it is :l...

I'm really worried that you, Meddler, care about explaining the difference bewteen Zap and Nid's spears . Even the spells have very different goals!

Does Riot REALLY think nida spears are a problem? I don't think so, as I don't think Jinx' W is aswell.
I think Nidalee's spears are immensely fun for the Nidalee player and create some great high moments for allies and enemies alike, depending on their results. I also feel that they can sometimes create a situation where the enemy has few or no accessible plays available to deal with them, given Nidalee also has high mobility, reasonable sustain and ok dueling power. Whether that means we should change them I feel is very open to debate, that they can sometimes be very frustrating to play against on the other hand I think is pretty widely accepted.


Xerath Coming to 3.13 PBE

Originally Posted by Riot (View RedTracker Source)

Okay, first of all i'll introduce myself.
I am a writer at League of Legends Nyheder.
I wrote a message to Xelnath over steam where we decided to make an open interview.
(English is not my native language)
Q: How is it to work at Riot?
Hi,

Its a lot of work and very fun.
Q: What is the current progress on Xerath and Yorick (For whoever hasen't followed up on it)
Xerath will be on PBE with 3.13. Yorick is currently tabled while we resolve some systems work.

Q: What do you do at Rioter?
I'm a systems designer - working on champion reworks, new champions, adding game systems (Minimap Icons/Designer features/new support gold systems/ward updates, etc).

Q: Have you ever participated or create a champion yourself?
I have - but only in the concepting stages. You'll see one of them early next year.

Q: When can we buy RP Cards in Europe?
I'm not qualified to answer this.

Q: What is your thoughts about future systems changes?
I think the feedback you guys have given has really helped us narrow do what changes we need to make to wards, vision and support income.

Q: Is there progress in fixing the EUW server issues?
Again, you need to ask a network engineer or someone in ops - I'm just a creative dude who helps support the work of the Live Design, Features and Champion teams whenever I can.

Q: What sort of problems can you run into when either reworking a champion?
The big thing is that your initial concept in your head is always different when you play it than you expected. When I remade Xerath, I imagined a long-range sustained bombarder - turns out that feels horrible to play against. It was novel, it wasn't fun.

So I instead had to make his bombardment window more narrow.

Q: Do you really love Kha'Zix since you have him as your profile picture?
I love his philosophy of changing and adapting to match the situation. Its a philosophy every league player should embrace... as compared to ... you know... Mundo - GO ALL OF THE PLACES.

... actually that sounds pretty cool too!

Thank you very much for your time. It is greatly appriciated.
Best Regards
MySelfLuls
Good luck with your school paper
Thank you very much for the replies.
I hope its okay that i have a few more questions:
This is some questions from our fanbase at facebook.
Q: Why would you change phage and trinity force?
Phage was a "if you're lucky with a proc, you win harder". Old Phage early randomly guaranteed you won lane. You couldn't be burst or outtraded. If the enemy engages, they can't leave. The new phage became an awesome "catch-up-to-target" utility item that was incredibly useful. Xypherous takes all of the credit for improvement.

The sprint one rewards action and using minions to speed you up to engage opponents. It makes the matchups a lot more interesting.

Q: Do you have any plans to rework Taric?
I can't comment on this, but I think we all agree his Triangle cape lacks a bit of that leaguey style.

Q: Do you have any plans to rework Skarner?
We're looking at Skarner right now! RiotScruffy is playing around with some prototypes. No ETA though, this is his first big project and we like to take our time to get these things right.

Q: Were you in the making of Jinx?
Nope, she was already under way when I started.

Q: What do you expect of the upcoming meta changes?
I expect Junglers to feel really awesome and more free to farm the jungle and change-up their routes. Supports should feel more freedom, and have a bit more income, but still be supports.

Q: What about the champions of season 4? Will they be changed a lot?
I don't understand.

Q: What do you expect to do in season 4 with supports and junglers?
The first order of business is to increase their gold income (I've got huge threads on this) then reduce pain that prevents them from feeling like fully realized characters in the endgame.

Q: What is the current kit for the reworked Xerath?
Q - charges to increase range
W - aoe slow that does bonus damage in the center
E - line nuke that explodes and stuns when hits a champion
R - locus of power + his old ult, with extra range and more spread out damage.

Thank you again.
Btw. It's not a schoolpaper
It's a facebook page for danish gamers with League of Legends where i translate PBE patches and official patches. Also stuff like these interviews
Ahhh, Well thank you for helping us reach our Danish players! You help keep the world informed.


Co-Op Vs. AI Improvements 'Not Abandoned'

Originally Posted by Riot (View RedTracker Source)

I haven't seen BuffMePlz or rjcombo lately so I guess they decided that sort of stuff wasn't worth it.
Neither BuffMePlz or I are currently working on Co-op vs. AI, but that doesn't mean Riot has abandoned it.


Reports in Winning Vs. Reports in Losing Games

Originally Posted by Riot (View RedTracker Source)

Yes I've been feeling the full brunt of this effect the timer has as of late. I think I ended up laning as junglers multiple times simply because I couldn't think of what to be as first pick while the time was about to run out. But it's always after I lock in a jungler, the person later in the pick order complain about how THEY wanted to jungle, and refuses to play another role. In all these cases, they didn't say a word till 2 seconds after the timer was up. In all those cases I asked from the very start I asked if anyone wanted to be ___ role. No one says a word.
But I feel time limit isn't the only problem in this case. We have 40+ seconds to pick a champion, and nearly a minute of banning time to also discuss our roles whilst banning. In all of these cases, the people who ends up costing the team the game are the ones who do not say a single word until it's clearly too late. I feel there should be something to FORCE players to communicate with each other. If only to prevent these situations.
I don't know what you have cooked up, but if you can solve all those gamebreaking situation I've described above (including this piece of work), then I sincerely look forward to it ASAP.
PS - if, and when you do finally implement whatever you have for Champion select, could you notify all players via an email? Some players might have chosen to avoid LoL simply because they were sick of situations like these, but planned on coming back if you fixed it. Others are on the edge.
PPS - On an unrelated note do you have statistics of AFK's and D/C's? Have there been a huge spike of leavers this week(Sept. 9-15)? I took note and in 7 games, I counted 4 of those seven games where my teammate left. 4 is not a huge number, but that is a significant chunk of games I play. Because I refuse to believe I'm just that unlucky. I specifically made sure all the past games that my enemies had all players intact too. So it's clearly not happening to everyone.
PPPS - increase that number of afk to 5 please. To show how little Tribunal acts as a deterrant, this person even dared us to report him before disconnecting. The reasons people have been leaving Ranked games have been increasingly petty as well. From not getting blue buff to having less kills than enemy team.
I agree with many of your points, and in the solutions we were brainstorming, a lot of it wasn't necessarily forcing players to communicate verbally, but to give them ways to communicate their expectations even if it was through indirect ways such as the UI. Sending out an e-mail to players who haven't checked out League in awhile is a great idea, I'll work with our communication teams to see what we can do there.

I'll check data on AFKs/DCs tomorrow at the office, but I haven't been flagged of any outliers or deviations too far from the norms--could be super unlucky streaks, or could be some ISP/hardware issues.

I've been working on a post regarding an update to Champion Select, so I hope to get that out and spend some time answering questions soon.
Can you reveal what the ratio of reports is in losing games vs winning games? Every so often I will get a player who's been reported more often in winning games because he will trashtalk the losing team, but the more likely case is someone raging when their team lost. Similarly, I'm sure that winning teams give more honour than losing games, since I've fallen prey to that as well. Can you reveal the exact numbers in each case?
In the next update to Champion Select, I'll be talking about some of this type of data. Contrary to popular belief, it's not as simple as winning = less reports and losing = more reports. I'll be talking a bit about Honors in these scenarios too.


Lucian's Laugh Reference

Originally Posted by Riot (View RedTracker Source)

Greetings summoners!

Whenever we do animations for a champion, we have to take into account his personality. Would a cool calm and collected guy laugh like Lux? Hahahah no but that would be funny though. Here is a video of Nickstravaganza (the Animator on Lucian) and Myself trying to explain how he would laugh on the battlefield!

Video!

We hope you enjoy!

I'm so exited for Semifinals! ^_^
8

Comments

  • #8 Benegesserit

    There's nothing saying that doesn't Riot DIDN'T abandon Co-op vs AI. Just that the reason provided doesn't mean that Riot did abandon it.

  • #1 Gameguy301
    im worried about cannon stances abysmal DPS (easily bottom 10% of ALL champions), and gattling guns potentialy long spin up time, as gaining the first few stacks seems tough with such a low starting speed. cannon stance seems to lose more and more apeal as the game goes on as the base AS becomes less impactful and attackspeed per level begins to play a stronger role. now minigun stance is easily top 5 for ranged DPS sources at full spin but getting to sull stacks can be tough.

    i think nerfing the AS on gattling gun and bumping her AS per level would help to smooth out both issues at the same time. making her attackspeed 2.1% up from 1% would result in 19.8% more attackspeed at level 18, then just make gattling gun 50/65/80/95/110% attackspeed. results in a stronger cannons stance, and more attackspeed on lower chain gun stacks, same attackspeed on full stacks. at no stacks the attackspeed difference would be 0.12375.

    TLDR adjust the AS slightly for slightly higher canon DPS and faster chaingun stacks, without changing end game DPS potential.
    Last edited by Gameguy301: 9/28/2013 9:46:38 AM
  • #2 dnagemo

    You should go post these on the PBE forums for riot to see

  • #3 porkcchop

    The launcher should just be for poke imo. 

    Minigun stance should be for actual teamfights. Her kit's numbers are extremely sexy. All her abilities have awesome base damage and scaling.  She seems very solid to me. 

  • #4 GunPerfect

    I've made a similar argument involving Graves base AS and his E, taking some away from E for more base, but what graves is all about is raw damage, kinda like how I see jinx atm. What they want with Jinx is for you to build more raw damage using the AS steroid from the minigun just like graves, getting the stacks may be tedious, but it just takes getting used to.

  • #5 GunPerfect

    As of right now, Runaans Hurrican instantly stacks minigun AS.

  • #6 veda123

    buy runaans hurricane and use cannon. Triple explosion FTW!!!

  • #7 VanGovv

    Does cannon consume 60 mana on AA or still 20 with Runaans Hurricane?

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