TONS Of Info On Zyra, Irelia, Yasuo, Potential Ziggs Nerfs, More Name Clean Up Clarifications, Thoughts on Assassins, and More


TONS of New Zyra Info

Originally Posted by Riot (View RedTracker Source)


I promised to answer Zyra questions in another thread so I'll preemptively address some concerns I have heard from players over the past few weeks:

1) I feel Zyra is a powerful champion -- she has best in class counter-engage and near best in class "unique utility" in the area of vision (seeds and plants) and early objectives (plant tanking), supplemented by potent offensive poke potential and a skillshot gated offensive lock down + kill combo.

2) I am happy to have a Zyra on my team in either the duo lane or in mid. She's more generally powerful as a support but definitely still works mid, just not as a blind insta-lock.

3) Duo lane Zyra should still feel like a mage, distinct from "pure supports" such as Soraka and Sona. At present, I feel like a control mage when playing Zyra in the support slot, which is proper and fits with both our day 1 design goals and our present vision for Zyra as a champion.

4) Spellthief's Edge-->Frostfang is just underpowered at the moment. It's the perfect item for duo lane Zyra, but just isn't carrying its weight. When balanced, Zyra's gold flow should be improved and her strengths, both within and outside of laning phase, should feel more pronounced.

5) Annie is crowding out a lot of mage-style support play at the moment. She's too powerful, too early, just as Zyra was 6 months ago. Hopefully some of our pending tweaks should bring Annie more in line and increase the frequency of play of our roster of non-tank supports.

6) To the extent Zyra were to be buffed in some hypothetical future world, I think her mobility (base MS) and mana costs (while wave clearing) would be the best places to start, but we are not thinking about buffs at the moment because of the aforementioned points.

7) Finally...
a) Zyra will always have an element of niche appeal for a number of reasons, most prominently: Her E, Grasping Roots, is so tremendously powerful that players interested in other elements of her kit will find her unappealing. Additionally, as an extremely fragile long range mage players who like having outs when they get themselves into bad situations will become frustrated while playing her.

b)Real talk -- Zyra is not the most well designed of champions for some very core reasons. Two examples: Plant damage will never feel as powerful as it truly is due to being a long duration damage over time; Her plants are insufficiently differentiated to let the player feel that they are consistently improving their spell use as they play her. It's important to be honest with your own work, and this is something I just have to live with as her designer. In the long run, we may make efforts to resolve some of these, but it will not be easy since they are deeply baked into the kit and I might not be the best person for the job (though I would like to spend some time on it at some point down the line).

c) As a result of these, even in a state of balance, a lot of people will subjectively feel that Zyra is weak. If you feel as if Zyra doesn't offer a lot to her team, is incapable of dealing damage, or just lacks the tools to succeed, it's entirely possible that Zyra just isn't the champion for you. One of the most unfortunate aspects of her being over-tuned on release is that players developed an attachment to her for reasons that were not long-term sustainable and as such feel weak when the champion ends up being balanced.
I'd argue that Rumble and Sona are other examples of this pattern: champions who likely should have niche appeal (melee DoT mage and passive aura dispenser) but who become widely played while overpowered only to feel lackluster when balanced.

Anyway, if anyone has questions, I will be around periodically for the next hour or so.
She's still strong, just dies so fast bot lane. Buff her health! <3
Zyra's fragility is an intended weakness. She's a long range poke mage who, when properly played, forces the enemy to deal with her plants as well as with her. If an enemy can close the gap, they deserve to deal substantial damage to her. If she lacks the tools to stay safe, I'd prefer to buff those tools rather than her raw durability. That's why I mentioned base MS as a hypothetical area we'd look at when hypothetically buffing her, hypothetically. Did I mention you should not run around quoting this thread as a promise for buffs?
OP is a CertainlyT smurf
Nah, my smurf would be StampyD.
This would be amazing :x Personally I'd like to see the nerfs to her Q reverted as well, but I guess I can't expect everything.
Also I just want to say thank you for such an amazing, unique champion. I have been playing Zyra since she was released, and I still adore her. I also happen to have the second most played Zyra games in the world Obviously I adapted to her nerfs, something a lot of old Zyra "mains" refused to do, so they don't understand her full potential.
If you could make that hypothetical situation come true, I would seriously love you.
Thanks Xandriia! I read and enjoyed your Zyra AMA a while back. Good stuff.
How do you think allowing her plants to apply on hit effects balances her in comparison to other "pets" like Heimerdinger, Annie, Malzahar, and Yorick? Come to think of it, things like Teemo mushrooms also fall into the category.
I really like how Zyra's plants can apply spell hit effects like Liandry's. It differentiates them from some of our other pets and makes them feel like they are an extension of Zyra herself. We were able to do this because her plants are low durability and finite lived. In iterations where they didn't strictly meet both of these criteria, spell hit effects were frustrating and absurdly powerful.
This might be a more theoretical question and not directly related to Zyra but why is it acceptable for some champions to be confined to niche picks when more powerful "non-niche" champions are allowed to exist?
Good question! A few answers:

1) In terms of gameplay niches, I think having generalists and specialists is fine, provided the reward for playing a specialist in the right situation is high. I'd point to Brand as a generalist mage -- decent CC especially post-Rylais, good laning phase (1v1 power), great team fight aoe damage (where mages typically excel). That doesn't make Brand a bad design.
2) However, most champions should excel uniquely in an area or two. We certainly have some champions that are too generally powerful at the moment. It's a delicate process though, because our Live team wants to make the right changes as so typically does not rush to action before thinking about the champion's kit as it fits the game.
3) It's easy to feel like a champion is a generalist when they are just an overtuned specialist. Zyra is a good example of this. She was always clearly at her best when counter-engaging or supporting an engagement with follow up CC. She also happened to offer so much damage that you couldn't trade with her profitably in other situations. This means that trimming a bit of power can in some cases go a long way toward letting a champion stand out for their distinct strengths.
For an extremely powerful long range mage why does her ulti have such a short cast range? Even when the AoE indicator is cast half way past the range indicator is pretty much engage range for a ton of popular picks right now.
Because her ultimate is a counterengage tool. Zyra and her plants poke you to death with the threat of rooting and knocking up enemies foolish enough to wade past the plants to her.

As to plant durability, I think it's in a great spot with the notable exception of AoE DoTs, such as Anivia's R, Singed's poison, or Miss Fortune's Make It Rain. Plants die way too fast to those. We need to design a system to differentiate those from single target DoTs and single application AoEs that can be implemented at reasonable cost and which doesn't impose excessive burden on future designers. I'll work on that!
I really enjoy playing Zyra. She's really fun, despite her issues. So I'll share my thoughts and ask some questions towards CertainlyT.
I feel like her latest nerfs were supposed to balance out her bot lane role but only made me weaker in the mid lane (where I enjoy playing here more-so). In fact, I just feel more unsafe in regards to picking her in such a situation. So I've stopped doing it.
-Any plans to reintroduce Zyra mid?
Great post and excellent questions. I think our mid metagame is very stale at the moment, especially at the competitive level, largely due to a small number of offenders. I'm not willing to balance around those because they are not in a good spot and that would just present further issues when they are brought into balance.

In solo queue, I feel that Zyra is an excellent midlane choice against bruiser heavy teams, especially when put into poke/seige compositions, for example with a Jayce and Ezreal on my team in other lanes. You could run Nidalee there, but I think you risk being overrun and those two should bring enough damage to allow tower pressure. They just need a way to keep the enemy frontline from reaching them. Lux, Gragas and Karma also work in this context. I also think she does well with pure tanks (like Nautilus) since she synergizes very well with other CC champions due to the delays on her CC and the high sustained damage output of plants.
I think the bugfix on W makes a real change - now I can double-seed and trigger both seeds with 1 spell, whereas before I couldn't do that, since for some reason the W wouldn't spawn the 2nd seed on time, or at all.
-Did this bugfix affect her power level invisibly? Was fixing it a reason for some of the nerfs?
Definitely, there were a number of under the hood buffs in that patch which didn't read well on paper but made her stronger to compensate for the nerfs to her raw power. They were also driven by a desire to nerf her at the pro level, where for example double seeding was trivial due to playing on zero latency, more than the online level.
Nonetheless, the Q range nerfs really hurt her safety in lane - previously lanes as Lux were entirely skill vs skill, but now they feel like I'm on the losing side from the get-go. Not to mention the damage loss makes it so I need 500 ap to compensate for it? I really wish for this nerf to be reverted, since it was one of the core reasons for mid zyra's downfall, I think.
-Any chance of undoing the Q nerf?
Not at this time. I'd prefer to make her slightly faster so she can get into position for good Qs than to allow her to cast them from so far outside a lot of opponents' cast ranges.
W's CDR was overly strong, yes. It's free stats on her. But the loss of it is also felt - her kit natively had this CDR before, which means that all her skills receive an invisible cooldown nerf that didn't get offset with any sort of buff? Furthermore, seed timer is also affected by CDR, this change made it so you get seeds a lower rate. For a champ who ENTIRELY relies on this mechanic to get their damage out, isn't this a huge nerf to Mid Zyra (compared to Bot Zyra who uses them as wards and slow-machines)
-Are you looking into lowering her CDs because of this? Or maybe just her Seed Timer?
I'd prefer to assess our CDR itemization before looking at any particular champion. I'd also like to see single plant spell casts be utilized more, as that is a much more efficient poke strategy (since the second plant does half damage). Personally, once I adjusted to that, her seed flow felt great.
Plants seem entirely balanced to me, but I always feel that their AI should be a bit closer to Heimerdinger turrets. They do attack the closest target and they do focus on the target of your autoattacks, but whenever I summon plants while being attacked, there's no guarantee that they'll focus my offender.
-Is it possible to make plant AI aggro the champion attacking Zyra, trying to protect her in a way?
I strongly disagree with the Heimerdinger approach. Having plants automatically attack your opponent in response to them taking offensive actions against you is not something that we'll see on Zyra while I have a role in her development. Players should succeed based upon their actions not because the game casts spells or performs actions for them. Learning to control your plants should be an important part of the process of mastering Zyra. At present, I think it lacks sufficient visualization for the player to improve in this area. That's definitely something I would like to improve over time (small steps so far).
I really enjoy Zyra's fragility and lack of mobility, it fits the theme of a plant mage. Of course, if she can afford it, building bulk and MS via items is possible, but should this be encouraged? My personal vote would be on No, since circumventing one of your base weaknesses like that seems like a cheap move. But if it's possible, some options might be given to Zyra with just a simple change.
-Should Zyra's plants Autoattacks trigger effects that trigger on Zyra autoattacking? (ex Furor Upgrade, Spellthief)
Probably not. There's only so much one can do with a spell and I think Zyra's plants are already given a lot of cool interactions with items. Plants proccing Red Buff is not something you'll see anytime soon!
Regarding the ult fix, where it used to stun on landing, I agree this wasn't fair and possibly overpowered. But it was one of the ways to guarantee that enemies remain long enough in plant range so that your plants can get enough autoattacks off. While plants did gain a buff to AA damage, it doesn't feel quite...gratifying? In a way? I'm unsure how to express it.
-So, would it be possible to give plants a higher %AS steroid if they get ulted, while also applying the AS Steroid bugfix treatment (where targets affected by an AS steroid immediately feel the effects rather than after the 1st attack post-acquiring the buff) ?
I think a better approach would be to re-think the attack speed increase and replace it with a more noticeable and satisfying damage amp. That would also give more flexibility since AS is frustratingly non-linear when given to finite lifetime pets. Zyra also uses our scripts to control her plant AI and that limits us to 0.25 second intervals so making small changes to plant AS is not possible without doing some bad things (like sending your client a ton of extra network packets).
Passive talk, I get it entirely - ability deals true damage, passes through targets and activates upon death, while also having a long range. Fair to use. Got nerfed, more fair to use. However, I still feel a huge issue lies within - if you select a direction to fire during the 2s lockdown post-death (after you die, before you can shoot), you cannot change direction via repeating the command BEFORE this lockdown ends.
-Is it possible to fix this direction lock, or is it working as intended?
No, the present functionality is suboptimal. I should go back and fix this now that I am less of a scripting noob. We also have some new technology that Xelnath made for the Xerath rework which could prove helpful here.

Potential Ziggs Nerfs

Originally Posted by Riot (View RedTracker Source)

We're currently looking at a couple of cases where Ziggs can be problematic:

1. As a early lane bully.
2. Mid to late game when poking and well fed/farmed

Solutions we're looking at right now are:

1. Reducing his passive damage, base and ratio, at levels 2-6 ish especially, scaling back up to the same values by level 18, to reduce his lane bully presence against a lot of mids.
2. Reducing his Q/E AP ratios a bit, while leaving the bases as is, so a well fed Ziggs doesn't chunk targets quite so much harder than an average Ziggs.

No guarantees that's what we'll opt for yet, there are a couple of other options we've discussed too, such as making it so his mines deal reduced damage on subsequent hits to minions again for example. That would have the benefit of bringing his farming potential down a bit, which may simply be too high at the moment, would have the trade off though of weakening his siege/counter siege niche as well.

We're looking to get some changes into the balance patch after the next one (the next's locked down at this point).

Upcoming Irelia Changes

Originally Posted by Riot (View RedTracker Source)

Once again I am happy they did/are taking a look at her its just that it doesnt feel right if we arent allowed any say on it.
regardless of whether or not we make changes to a given champion, i don't think anyone is going to stop you from discussing those changes as long as you aren't breaking any rules and are relatively civil about it. just treat each other with respect and you'll be fine. :3

if what you're asking for is a discussion thread with a lot of involvement with the developer working on potential irelia changes, that's completely up to the developer that ends up working on her. in any case, i don't believe anyone is working on her at this timeĀ—i think she's a bit further down the line.
Woah, rickless, I havn't seen you in a bit. You been busy, or have i just not been paying attention?
part of it is being busy, the other part is that a lot of my work has been on bigger projects that don't lend themselves to general conversation (i.e., not many people are chatting about the stuff i'm directly working on).

once season 4 stuff is all wrapped up i'll be able to work on moderate size projects again, which would include champions like galio, irelia, et al that need more than a small number adjustment or two.

CertainlyT on Yasuo's Current State

Originally Posted by Riot (View RedTracker Source)

Hey guys,

We're relatively happy with Yasuo's current power level, for a few reasons:
He wins about as many games as he loses;
He is terrifying when ahead but still has the vulnerabilities to be defeated by coordinated enemies;
He is vulnerable to falling behind during the laning phase but still has the tools to contribute meaningfully with careful play;
He excels in synergistic team comps, especially when learning him, but functions well independently in the hands of an experienced player.

We're also enjoying most of his gameplay:
He rewards a broad spectrum of skills -- getting better at him involves improving your mechanics, judgment, and situational responsiveness (both in positioning and build);
He has a lot of sitational variance -- seldom do two fights play out identically in any given game;
He succeeds at similar rates at all levels of play, implying that he scales roughly equally with both player skill and opponent skill.

As such, we don't plan on buffing Yasuo per se. Obviously, he has a few kinks to be worked out in response to player feedback, so there will be changes, but the net effect should be fairly neutral when it comes to power level.

Specifically, in addition to a bunch of bug fixes, we're looking at the following changes:

1)Boosting the power of Last Breath by having it grant maximum Flow on cast. The ability is currently lackluster at level 6, causing Yasuo to often fall behind in lane compared to his opponent's ult unlock. This change will make it a better means of turning around a fight or re-engaging while low but keep its power in ganking cases unchanged.

2) Reducing the power of Statikk Shiv on Yasuo in two ways:
First, Shiv's proc isn't receiving the -10% crit damage modifier that Way of the Wanderer applies to all of Yasuo's other crits. This will take Shiv crits from 200 to 180 damage before Infinity Edge.
Second, Shiv currently calculates its crit chance twice -- if the attack that procs it crits, Shiv auto-crits; if the attack that proc'd it doesn't crit, Shiv rolls for a crit. With 50% crit chance, you get a 75% crit rate on Shiv procs. This is true across all champions. We'll be fixing both of these in upcoming patches.

The result should address some of the snowball concerns players have correctly expressed regarding Yasuo -- a fast Shiv won't grant as much non-scaling magic damage at a very early level -- and will leave us in a better position to assess his overall power level. We still expect Shiv to remain a core item on Yasuo, but it won't offer quite the power spike it does at present.
The are nerfing static shiv. That will effect him AND many other champions. Honestly thats pretty lame. Why not just make the 2nd roll of shiv use half of yasuo's crit chance? You know, that way its fair across all champions and you don't nerf the item unnecessarily...
That change to Shiv was not motivated by Yasuo directly. It just happens to hit him pretty hard, so I felt compelled to point it out. The change was prompted by a desire to better differentiate Shiv and Phantom Dancer, both of which might soon be seeing some statistical adjustments.
Every match up is a team game, as it is the nature of the game itself. But not every fight is team related, and every match is DEFINITELY not always built to cater to Yasuo. The point he's making is that an able player came make the champion work well even in circumstances not ideally created for him.
Well said.
Can you give him another nerf along the lines of the skillshot width nerfs to champions like Ezreal? Something as powerful as Windwall absolutely needs to be paper thin.
It's kind of stupid when you think you're actually on one side of windwall and have your spell projectile canceled since it originates from the center of your character. Or simply just making it so that you can't stand in the middle of Windwall and expect to block most projectiles headed your way.
We haven't been consistent with the exact position from which our missiles spawn on champions. Some come from the hand, some from the center of the model, etc. Yasuo's Wind Wall is already 1 unit "thick" so further improvements will come over the next few patches as JHa and I make sure missiles are coming from the right "bone" or position on a champion's model.
How about bugfixes for his ultimate, CertainlyT? Will it still be able to be hourglassed next patch?
This should largely be fixed next patch with a tech solution that resolves any remaining edge case possibilities the patch thereafter.
yasuo is too strong and the only reason he seems "balanced" is because hes new and nobody has dedicated enough time to him. He doesnt need QoL buffs he needs nerfs straight up.
That's possible. He's certainly a very powerful champion, but then again champions should be powerful.

These changes put him in a position where we can better assess his true power level. I would note that many players have already played 100+ Yasuo games, so we are starting to get meaningful feedback which suggests that he is not as dramatically out of line. Since you appear to have very few games with him, I don't think you're in a better position to assess whether or not he is overpowered.
If you're still lurking, CertainlyT: will there be any investigation into the responsiveness of his E->Q combo? I almost always feel like it behooves me to E, auto, Q, instead of doing a spinning Q, due to an ever so slight delay.
Yes, the combo should be more responsive after next patch, though of course your circular Q will still be delayed until the end of the dash. Generally, the EQ combo is not intended to be strictly better than the Q by itself, but it should offer the player a choice in how they best perform their Q. In the mean time, smartcasting your Q should increase the reliability of the combo (especially EQ3) due to how the client handles sending and receiving information to and from our servers.
I don't really think the R change is all that well thought out....sure maybe it keeps him on par at 6 but umm let's look late game? Giving a melee ad carry the capacity to have 1300 points of shield via passive seems really unwise.
You raise a relevant concern. However, the R is not an on demand move. If a player can set this up, they deserve to be rewarded. Since the core counterplay to Yasuo (Maintain proper spacing in the face of AOE knockups, CC, focus fire) denies his ability to refresh his shield, I'm not particularly nervous. I would also note that we as a design team shouldn't shy away from risky changes. The most cautious design choices are seldom the best. One virtue of running a live-updated game is that changes which turn out to not generate good gameplay can always be reverted.
Any thoughts on Zyra? Riot ok with her now being only used as a support?
I'll answer those questions in a Zyra thread. Let me go find one!
This will always keep it useless unless the enemy team is grouped for a perfect E->Q AOE due to how it applies on-hit (nearest first, so red buff only applies to one person - as an example)
The fact I need to be close to use it means its only useful if I'm chasing - and the E->AA->Q feels more responsive/better to pull off. Especially if the enemy is near a creep and you need to proc the on-hit effects you may have..
There is never a time I feel rewarded for doing the E->Q. If the enemy is smart they just walk towards you as you dash and dodge the Q 80% of the time in a 1v1.
And thats coming from someone with well over 125 games played as Yasuo...

The EQ combo has a number of advantages:
1) It has no cast time, so does not impair your mobility. Real talk: While dashing through minions to catch an enemy, it's strictly better to EQ minions to build a stack toward your Q3 than to E...line Q. so your assertion that it's "never better" is just hyperbole.
2) Can hit multiple enemies not lined up, and so offers targeting flexibility.
3) Is less avoidable in a number of contexts. For example, if an enemy is near max dash range, they will more easily be able to avoid a regular Q than an EQ due to the narrowness of the Q. When I speak about EQ responsiveness changes I am referring to not having to mash Q immediately upon beginning your dash. With reasonably quick decisionmaking, you should be able to decide mid-dash whether you'd like to circular Q or save your Q for a post-dash line nuke.
4) It forces the enemy to adjust their counterplay, which can often put them in the position you want.

You have mentioned some of the disadvantages of the combo. Most of those just involve the enemy playing well, which is something we should reward, not punish.
My biggest worry about the Flow change is that it seems to invalidate a lot of his passive's counterplay. The whole idea is that you're supposed to poke him whenever it's up, wait for it to decay, then poke him while it's down, but now it just seems like you won't have those safer times to poke him post 6. He'll always be able to engage on you at full power, regardless of whether you've been playing the Flow minigame.
I dunno, his design just seems to have an excessive number of minigames for his opponent to micromanage. First you have Flow, then you have Q stacks, then you have to count which minions and champiopns he hasn't dashed to yet, then you figure out a way to play around Wind Wall. On the one hand, I'd be happy to not have to juggle yet another thing when playing against him, but on the other, that's only going to be because you auto-lose that minigame now post-6.
Definitely thought a lot about this concern. What motivated us to make the change anyhow was that the poke, wait, engage strategy against the shield is intended to become less relevant as the game progresses. In lane, being ulted is generally a result of the enemy's poor decisionmaking and so with proper management of Yasuo, it shouldn't be a huge issue.

As to Yasuo having too many mini-games, I will agree that counterplay manifests on a number of axes (axises?). This is intentional as I feel it makes Yasuo less binary in his matchups. Different champions (and players) are able to better perform at different mini-games, which means that even if your champion isn't good at one, you can focus on the other. As an example, champions without ranged attacks are weaker at poking through Yasuo's shield (e.g., Riven), but also can take more liberties with their positioning vis-a-vis their own minions since they are likely want Yasuo to close on them.

Personally, I find laning against Yasuo more enjoyable than laning against Garen (a champion with two primary axes of counterplay -- maintain range when his cooldowns are available; damage him periodically to prevent his passive from activating) or LeBlanc (shove the lane or she kills your side lanes) because of how many ways there are to improve against him and because my strategy often varies dramatically depending on my champion's strengths, but opinions may vary.
Yasuo is probably my favorite champion released last year, but I think he has a problem
He's one of the strongest mid-laners in the game. I feel it's against his design for him to be so powerful early on. If he's paired against a squishy mage there's almost nothing they can do vs his all-in potential at level 2 and there's no risk for yasuo since he can just dash away to an enemy ranged creep.
I feel like his shield regeneration rate needs to be slightly lowered early on to allow enemies for more windows to harass yasuo, since he is resourceless and unrelenting in his ability to dive and poke others
Yasuo is designed to have a "Tristana-esque" power curve -- a strong level 1-3, a notable spike at 6, with a distinct trail off until he reaches his core items. I really like these sort of power curves across time because they mean that one player is sometimes the aggressor and sometimes not. Figuring out "who's the beat down" given a number of variables is one of the cooler aspects the laning phase.

That said, it's very possible that Yasuo's levels 1 and 2 are too strong. Too soon to tell at the moment though. At the moment, I think that with cautious play Yasuo is containable at these levels. I also think that Yasuo needs to play very cautiously himself the rest of the time.
I like multiple sources of counterplay. I don't like when every single one of them is so crucial. Against a decent Yasuo, it takes a lot of effort to beat him at any of his minigames, but you still don't win the lane unless you beat him at all three while also beating him in trades with your own abilities, and of course farming. It just seems to require a lot more mental effort to play against Yasuo than virtually anyone else except possibly Lee Sin.
This isn't what we've observed. Yasuo players tend to have to properly manage all of their resources (Flow, Q stacks, W/R cooldowns) to win lane. It's possible that we are wrong, but that doesn't seem the case based on direct observation and quantitative analysis.
can you please stop making resourceless champions. They have far more non-choices than meaningful decisions to make in gameplay.
What is the actual drawback that Yasuo has for being resourceless? He is pure output with little to no input
it's certainly not "long cooldowns" It's certainly not itemization, and it's certainly not a mechanical limitation of his playstyle.
"hur dur he melee and very aggresive in the thick of the fight" cough Fiora Darius
I see this posted a lot. Mana is only one way to gate a champion.

In the case of Yasuo, the resource gate on spells is actually inverted. Yasuo is gated by the NEED to act. If the Yasuo player is not successfully casting Q and E, he's falling behind -- Q builds stacks toward his knockup. E builds his passive. Each of them also leaves Yasuo vulnerable. In lane, Q starts at a 0.42 second cast time and E alerts the enemy to his exact position in 0.6 seconds (the time of the dash). Using those momentary losses of control to your advantage as the opponent can help you land skillshots or reposition against him. In team fights, the need to build Q stacks requires Yasuo to find targets (like the Wraiths, minions, or enemy champions that move into his team's lines) before he can cast his more powerful Q3. The E requires him to move around in a fight to keep his passive working, making him less of a target chooser and more of a target taker.

He also has no inherent sustain, rare for a melee, and most of the time is short range, allowing him to be harassed. We could have given Yasuo mana, bumped his durability/regen up a ton, and given him long range waveclear tools, but instead we made him manaless, fragile, and short ranged. Personally, I think this was the right choice as health as a resource is something that the enemy actually has control over. Mana regen is mostly a function of itemization. It should be more satisfying to maintain proper range while harassing Yasuo out of lane than to build enough armor that Pantheon cannot kill you with spears before OOMing.

That's not to say that resourceless designs are not more stressful to fight against than mana driven designs. Mana-based champions can be tied by avoiding their damage. Resourceless champions must be defeated through offensive action. Creating the proper amount of stress is an important part of design and really hope that Yasuo has the vulnerabilities to make players feel like they can find opportunities to defeat him through skilled ability use, which in turn should make the added stress worthwhile.
I think Yasuo makes a strong case for the idea that League of Legends is suffering slightly from a 'mobility creep' from it's newer champions. (Before you say it, Jinx has her passive).
I've always found "mobility creep" to be an odd choice of words. Would you say that we are suffering from downward "point-and-click stun creep"? It's no secret that we tend to favor some element of mobility in our newer designs. It's also no secret that we tend to favor fewer point and click stuns. Personally, I feel mobility is very helpful for the following reasons:

First, champions with mobility can be given a lot more weaknesses, particularly when it comes to durability and reliability of CC. Nasus/Darius/Mundo etc. have to be more or less able to buy 100% defensive items in order to be viable. There are only so many Patchwerk-style DPS tests we can put into the game. Additionally, we can provide a lot less reliability to other elements of their kit when we add dashes to champions. Nasus Wither, Nunu Ice Blast, and Sion Cryptic Gaze are not our best spell designs, but are required for these champions to be able to close the gap against ranged champions since in the absence of reliability in their CC they would die to ranged basic attacks should they ever miss a skillshot.

Second, mobility makes the game more volatile. Ever played Udyr against Ashe? You just slowly lose. Mobility allows for the sort of rapid turn arounds or engagements that can swing fights drastically in the blink of an eye. That is exciting and adds an element of unpredictability to the game. Lower mobility champion encounters often "end" well before one champion dies, because the outcome becomes obvious.

Third, mobility limits the problem of fighter stacking. Historically, when the metagame shifted to low mobility fighters, it shifted waaaay toward low mobility fighters. This is because champions that crowd control their enemies in order to reach them are highly symbiotic. Mundo loves a Nasus Wither, because it allows him to gap close freely and spam Cleavers from melee. Nasus loves a Mundo Cleaver hit because it means he can close to Wither range with 100% certainty and from there he's tough to stop. When we give our melee champions mobility instead of CC, they all have to use their mobility skills to reach the enemy backline and so can be balanced to be satisfying and effective on a team that is otherwise comprised of ranged champions and can be given more specific synergies than "is melee".

Additionally, I'd like to make a few observations about mobility.

First, the game will always grow most in the directions it hasn't yet grown. This is almost a tautology. Our early designs tended to be relatively immobile. Our subsequent designs tend to be relatively more mobile because we want to give players novel experiences. Since mobility, and kit designs made possible by mobility, were not well explored on release, it is only natural that we would flesh that area of design space out more fully as the game continues to evolve. We've also evolved the game in other directions including novel sorts of skillshots, new methods of casting, etc.

Second, mobile champions do not actually crowd out non-mobile champions. We are currently seeing a ton of powerful but immobile champions dominating the scene in every position except the jungle (where wall hopping is currently highly favored). Mundo and Shyvana are arguably the defining top laners at the moment alongside highly mobile champions like Renekton. Orianna is the most consistent mage since we nerfed Karthus earlier in the season (and Kayle will likely be the next dominant mid), alongside the mobile Gragas/Kassadin. Draven, Jinx and Sivir, who have MS boosts but not dashes, are dominant AD carries, alongside Lucian/Ezreal.

Finally, I would note that we are hopefully getting better at implementing interesting mobility skills. We try now to gate movement in ways that create gameplay for the opponent. Jinx is slow as molasses, until the first kill. Yasuo is a flurry of motion, unless you isolate him from your minions. Rengar has infinite leaps, but only near brush. Even in the domain of free target dashes, we have consistently upped the counterplay to dash abilities over the past year. The most obvious recent examples are Vi, Zac, Lissandra and Aatrox, who all have a special animations/cast paradigms to allow for clever enemies to CC them out of their dashes.

Meddler on Multiple Taunts

Originally Posted by Riot (View RedTracker Source)

Wouldn't personally consider it inherently toxic, whether it's good design would depend on what reason you had for wanting multiple taunts (as opposed to other CC types) on the kit though. Taunts give you varying effectiveness against different roles, less effectiveness when doing poorly, the ability to somewhat reposition the target and increased accessibility to effects that trigger when your champion is hit. If it's appropriate that a champion doubles up on CC that fits those criteria (and almost certainly some others I'm forgetting) then sure, two taunts might be a good choice. Not something I'd expect to be a common situation myself, not an inviolate 'never do this' rule though.

Thoughts on Assassins

Originally Posted by Riot (View RedTracker Source)

Note: Personal opinions only here, not necessarily representative of the live balance team.

Zed I feel's in a pretty good spot. He can be really effective when used well, offers some good opportunities for skilled play and, after the recent set of changes, has better counterplay too than previously. He's not must pick or ban anymore and goes well with some, but not all, team comps/match ups.

Akali I feel is actually in a pretty strong spot right now, particularly with the removal of Oracles giving her W a bit more power in many circumstances. Bit surprised we're not seeing her as a really strong pick at the moment, gut reaction is that that might be more due to the current trend towards somewhat tankier comps than any issues on her part.

Diana could do with a more defined niche I feel to make her a more attractive pick sometimes, but not all the time. The combination of some tankiness, a hard CC and potentially multiple gap closers makes her really challenging for a lot of champions to deal with, so just adding raw power to her creates some issues as we've seen in the past. Could be a good candidate for stronger strength in one regard and a compensatory weakness somewhere else. Not something I've put much thought into though so that's just an off the top of the head comment.

Jinx's W Is The Fastest Skillshot

Originally Posted by Riot (View RedTracker Source)

In terms of speed the missile travels at off the top of the head it's probably Jinx's W (Zap) which from memory's around 3200. Zap does have a noticeably longer than average cast time though, so in terms of time from button press to an average target distance some of the other fast skillshots will be around the same effective speed.

At one point in time, Xerath's new E accelerated the further it travelled. Once while testing at my desk without putting a proper cap in, it hit 50,000 units of speed and caused the engine to throw a warning.

... the warning was "Missile. Go home, you're drunk."
Is the slowest skillshot still Anivia's Q?
Far as I know yes, both it and Lissandra's E have a speed of 850 units/second.

Updated EU LCS Replacement Play-In Information

Originally Posted by Riot (View Original Source)


NIP was unable to field a full lineup against MYM and was disqualified after twenty-five minutes. The EU LCS Spring Promotion will continue with MYM vs SHC in a best-of-three series.


NIP vs MYM | NIP disqualified
MYM vs SHC | 0 - 2 Super Hot Crew XD wins---

Hello Summoners!

As many of you have heard, Lemondogs has been removed from the LCS, and will no longer be a part of the 2014 spring split.

Because of this sudden change, we have to replace them on very short notice. The losing teams from the Promotion Qualifier, Ninjas in Pyjamas, Supa Hot Crew and Meet Your Makers will play a three way qualifier according to standard LCS tiebreaking procedure - The teams will play a BO1 round robin. If there is a tie after these games, then the teams will randomly be placed into a single elimination bracket to determine who will earn the spot.

The event will be commentated by Deman and Quickshot and you will be able to watch all the games on Twitch.

The matches begin Saturday January 11, 17:00 CET / 8:00 AM PST.


17:00 CET: NIP vs. MYM
18:00 CET: MYM vs. SHC
19:00 CET: NIP vs. SHC

Team rosters are listed below in position order.

MYM: Kubon, Mokatte, Czaru, Makler, Libik
NIP: Zorozero, Fury III, Nukeduck, Freeze, Mithy
SHC: Mimer, Impaler, Moopz, Mr Rallez, Migxa

More Name Clean Up Clarifications

Originally Posted by Riot (View Original Source)

Some of you received the Summoner name cleanup email when you may not have met the requirements. There are a few explanations for this:
High Level Inactives. We targeted players that had not played a game in past 6 months, regardless of their level to make sure that they knew of the change to the Summoner name policy.
Multiple Accounts tied to an email. Many players have or had accounts on multiple realms tied to one email. One of these accounts met the requirements for the cleanup. However, the way the emails were deployed, the email was pulled because of the inactive account, but the data displayed was for an alternate account.
* Example: your Summoner name showed up as a bunch of random numbers or it displayed the incorrect realm.

Please note, that only the inactive account will be cleanup. If you’re active on your account, you have nothing to fear. We’re going to send out an additional message to you all with all the correct information.

I have this aswell, and the funny thing is it says "Realm Name : EU West" when I'm not even in EUW, riot pls

If you got an email with the realm bring one that you aren't on there are two possibilities.

You either created an account on that realm and forgot about it.

Or, you transferred from there to another server. When you transfer servers your Summoner name stays saved just in case you go back. If your transfer was a while ago that email is letting you know that your Summoner name will be cleared on EUW so someone else can take it.

This has happened with previous name wipes and can be confusing, sorry about that!

I'd like to ask a question, There's an account that's been inactive for 7+months and is level 11, but I can't seem to take the name.

When does this whole name-change thing come into effect?

I believe the news post said after the next patch, but there have been delays before so keep an eye on the post for changes.
I got the same email but in the username spot it is a bunch of random characters rather than my username? wat.

You likely have another account that you forgot about a long time ago. I would recover your username on the website to check. Using the recover username option will prompt you to type your email address, and all accounts you have with that email address for that server should show up when you get the email.

That Summoner name looks like it was cleared once already so that account is probably pretty old.

Reddit Vs. Official Forums Discussion (And More)

Originally Posted by Riot (View RedTracker Source)

I only speak for myself, but I wish I had come to the forums more. But I've been pretty crushed under work since October for harrowing, then black friday, then snowdown, and now lunar revel.
I personally would like to post more; the only problem is that I have zero authority about balance issues, which are 3/4 of the threads.
go back to reddit!
-_- I have more total posts here than on Reddit, and most of my posts there are just trolls.
You can always make a thread about what you wanna talk about.
You're a Red; it'll get filled instantly.
I did one in November:
It was fun. But I don't want to do it too often or people will get bored of me >_>
Are there any plans in the works to expand LoL as a brand?
McDonald's tie ins, Trading Card Games, comics/novels, action figures, breakfast cereals?
It's always baffled me how LoL is such a huge game with likable and marketable characters, but as far as their IP goes, it's pretty slim.
Another problem is that there are a lot of questions, like this one, that I can't answer because I'm not the subject matter expert. But just this one time, I'll do it anyway.
We want LoL to grow as a brand organically, through its own merits. If we had a breakfast cereal for instance, we want LoL to already be a household name where most people will already recognize it. We don't want people to learn about us through the cereal aisle at the grocery store, you know?
Since you're eCommerce I have a question. Are you going to have an official League Merch store some time soon?
Yes. But that's all the info I have for you. And I don't even know what "soon" means in that case, so I wouldn't bother asking.
see ? most people didnt even knew you or your job existed.
it's ok to post in a while, make yourself a known digital face for us.
I have a real face toooooooooooo...
What do you do, anyway? Skin marketing/pricing? Or is that all Hippalus?
Nothing is all Hippalus. I, along with my whole department (of 7 or so people), pretty much deal with anything that involves RP (not counting computer programming stuff). Also F2P rotations. Also trying desperately to hit diamond in solo queue.
Not to be "that guy"... but do you think morgageddon would be down for some ARAMs sometime? ^_^
I've never played with a Rioter (I've been playing since mid season II ) and I think that having some games with my fav rioter (sorry, but I'm sure you can understand that you're not really around frequently enough to be well known ) would be awesome :P
I'll text him He might be busy.
Could we get a Red to post about this (skin prices)
I will say that I've read pretty much that whole thread and keep track of it. I will address it soon. But I can't post in there or I'd be eaten alive.
How hard is it to get work done when you can claim playing a game of LoL to be part of your work?
It's not any different from anyone else. How can people get homework done when they want to play League? You just gotta say, "Responsibilities first. Then fun." It's hard cause I love LoL so damn much but it helps to know that there are millions of people depending on the work that I do
I thought it was a wizard who started his life as a crab?
It's the story of a starry-eyed crab with dreams of being the first crustacean to graduate from Wizard School...
oh man wait you do F2P?!I hate to ask but do you ever check if a champion doesn't make it into rotation much and put them in?and do you intentionally keep certain champions out?(balance/toxic reasons are understood as the reasons)
cause I've been trying to play EVERY champion and some just never show up
OH and good luck man,i wish you the best of luck getting there
Edit: ah sorry totally selfish,i just got caught up,its been a goal of mine for a while
Yes some champions don't go in. Don't expect to see Yorick. Or Poppy. Or Sion. There is another set of soft-blacklisted champions right now that will be added again soon. Like Kassadin I think. It has to do with player onboading. As someone who's second game of LoL ever was with Kassadin, I can tell you it kinda sucks.
@wizard crab what do think of the concept of Ao shin?
It's pretty cool, but there are some champions I'm much more excited for. And you should be too
your going to be eaten alive no matter what, you guys lie then do the opposite of what you promise in terms of anything RP related
This right here is what scares people from the forums. You take any red post as gospel. Sometimes situations change. Or we're wrong (we're human, not infallible). But I cannot think of any time that a Rioter intentionally misled the community on anything (other than jokes). Ever. And that's the honest truth.
Wizard! You don't have to only talk about your department ya know. You can just always join in on GD with your own personal opinions, which is even easier since you're not in the balance department too, since people can't be all "Well Riot balance thinks ___ is a bit OP!" or something. Plz, these forums need more love from Riot in general, just pop on in whenever.
Attachment 875556
You say this, but people see red and think authority here. Not everyone. But some people.
Leave it to WizardCrab to have that magical timing I suppose ._.
I feel like something needs to happen. Something that gets people really involved with Riot as a company again. It's more than any one person can really accomplish alone, so it'd take a real initiative directed towards the community. I think people are just sort of starting to feel abandoned.
You guys are awesome - you, Eliv, Morg, etc. One day I'm going to have to pry you all away from your paying jobs to host some sort of fan-made event to get the connection between riot and the players going strong again.
Hey if you get a serious fan event together I'm sure we'd all be there
This right here is what scares people from the forums. You take any red post as gospel. Sometimes situations change. Or we're wrong (we're human, not infallible). But I cannot think of any time that a Rioter intentionally misled the community on anything (other than jokes). Ever. And that's the honest truth.
I once said that RiotGypsylord was my friend, but really he was only a close acquaintance.
okay then,may I inquire if rumble is one?i got lucky and played a yorick one for all so i'm god there
I think rumble may be one of the last champs I need
Edit: just confirmed rumble is the LAST!
He may be. I'm at home and don't have that info on this computer
I once said that RiotGypsylord was my friend, but really he was only a close acquaintance.
A spear right through my heart ;(
Legit question, pertaining to ^
I know it's not your department, but I had a champion design concept that came to me about 3 weeks prior to Thresh's release (I know this because it shares the same weapon as thresh and I was mildly disappointed by this )
but I was wondering if there was anywhere that I could submit champion ideas (once I finish them, working on a few) where they would actually be noticed, I've tried the "concept" forums, but that place doesn't seem to get much traffic from what I saw.
Just wondering if there was someplace where my thoughts could reach a more productive audience (possibly someone at Riot even?)
Even if it doesn't seem like it. We read the forums a lot. I'd say keep trying

Morgageddon pops in.

Leave it to WizardCrab to have that magical timing I suppose ._.

I feel like something needs to happen. Something that gets people really involved with Riot as a company again. It's more than any one person can really accomplish alone, so it'd take a real initiative directed towards the community. I think people are just sort of starting to feel abandoned.

You guys are awesome - you, Eliv, Morg, etc. One day I'm going to have to pry you all away from your paying jobs to host some sort of fan-made event to get the connection between riot and the players going strong again.

Well, I have been playing in Riot vs. Community... it's been restarted and coordinated with rioters via Rhojin... we're 1-1 for the last two events...
all we want is to be informed when this happens, instead of feeling left in the dark.
and ditching the forums all together instead of fixing the problem only furthers frustrations with reds
I don't think people consciously "ditch the forums." It's just that when some version of every word you say becomes a promise it makes you think twice about posting.
I shall remember you said this, and wake you at 3am! No but it'll be a lot of fun for sure. Hope we can work something out soon!
As for the bits about people taking your words as gospel I can see the frustrations with that. I imagine a lot of it comes down to not shooting the messenger.
I may not be an employee, but if there is anything you guys feel that we can do to help please let us know. I'm pretty passionate about this community - even with the bad and ugly tangling up the good.
And now for the non-topic question of the millennium - did you get anything good from santa?
Yeah I got some sweet headphones. And Disneyland tickets!
Yo WizardCrab, any chance we're ever going to see a Crab Wizard champion? Because that would be awesome.
Or a Crab anything champion. Crabs are cool.
I wish. I want a crab Elise skin personally.
WizardCrab, why were there no holiday runes this year or last year? I got two of them in 2011 and was looking forward to completing my set of go-fast candy cane quints, but for whatever reason they have not returned, and my OCD has not allowed me to use these mismatched quints for the past two years.
Will they ever return? Why did they go away in the first place??
absolutely no idea
With regards to misleading the community.
-6300 IP won't become the standard price for champions
-Champion pricing refecting skill
-1350 RP skins are just a trial, not to be a regular thing
-Lore is important and will be continued in new ways following the end of JoJ
-Limited skins no longer being limited
To name a few.
1. Change of strategy that wasn't planned at the time. We also didn't lower the price of champions at the time.
2. Change of strategy that wasn't planned at the time.
3. Change of strategy that wasn't planned at the time. Honestly, people like the 1350 skins more. We have endless amounts of surveys and data to back this up.
4. I'm sure this was intended and we have a ton of lore that you guys don't know about. I know nothing about the plans to release it.
5. Change of strategy that wasn't planned at the time. We've already explained this in depth and I'm not going to go into it again here.
Ofc plans change but wouldn't having some kinf of dedicated channel of communication with players prevent these issue? Maybe a giant disclaimer at the bottom stating what you say much like the ones in the medication commercials.
Everybody hates the medication disclaimers.
Guys, guys, guys! Let's not lose sight of the main thread here! You can ask WizardCrab all about eCommerce later but right now I want to know why Riot has somewhat abandoned the forums and moved to Reddit instead? I know Crab has said he has more posts here than on Reddit, but that's not the case with MANY MANY other Rioters.
Why have you forsaken us? When will you be back if you ever choose to? I don't want to have to go to Reddit to get the latest news as fast as possible but that seems to be the case!
Can I get some comments on your thoughts on my main post?
Sure. I will try to post more. I really can't speak for anyone else. I'm not sure what else I can say.
Thats cause you've been here since beta probably, and you guys have only congregated to reddit in the last year
I've been here since May.
I'm serious about that Poro champ though. What do you guys hink about making one, Wizard?
Porina, Savior of the Poros (the name is a placeholder).
I see her as a melee bruiser/tank/jungler and anotehr guy on this thread wnated a poro/pet mechanic with her. She would be like a Joan of Arc figure.
Dunno, I don't make champions. I'd certainly play her though
I hear alot about surveys and data and what not but we see no evidence of these numbers. Any plans to share with the community the data collected or results of these surveys?
I also really want to know... what do you think about a Poro Champion being released?
Honestly, no specific plans that I know of. You can trust us or not. But it's really not in our best interest to make skins that our community doesn't want, you know?
Guys, guys, guys! Let's not lose sight of the main thread here! You can ask WizardCrab all about eCommerce later but right now I want to know why Riot has somewhat abandoned the forums and moved to Reddit instead? I know Crab has said he has more posts here than on Reddit, but that's not the case with MANY MANY other Rioters.
Why have you forsaken us? When will you be back if you ever choose to? I don't want to have to go to Reddit to get the latest news as fast as possible but that seems to be the case!
Can I get some comments on your thoughts on my main post?
I obviously can't speak for all Rioters, but I think this is largely a perception issue more than an actual issue of Riot abandoning the forums for Reddit.

Without knowing the specific reasons why it happens (honestly I don't), there are a few reasons I can think of as to why a Rioter would post on Reddit rather than the forums in any given instance:
-The most common one I believe is that the Rioter posting on Reddit is, in fact, a Redditor (is that a word?). That's probably just the main site they use to see what's going on in the community, and they are just more comfortable there. For example, I read both Reddit and the forums (forums way more often), but I prefer posting on the forums (and Twitter if that counts). Recently, I have only seen Magus post on Reddit, but I've only ever seen Morgageddon post on the forums. Xelnath and CertainlyT (to name a few) post on both. I'm also certain there are tons of Rioters who don't use either, and stick to other mediums of communication such as Twitter.
-As far as I know, there is nobody forcing a Rioter to post specifically in Reddit or the forums or any one place over the other. Comfort is a huge point, but it could be that a topic a Rioter wants to address was put up on Reddit but not on the forums. For any big topics, like the preseason 4 introduction posts, you saw the Rioters involved with those taking the initiative on both Reddit and the forums. So I highly doubt there is any sort of "I'm going to spite the forums and only post on Reddit" mindset going on here, or any managers/bosses of Rioters forcing them to stick to Reddit only.
-Maybe it's just that the Rioters that do post on Reddit are more vocal than the Rioters who prefer the forums. Again, few reasons that could account for this: The Rioters are more vocal in general... the pressure and expectations WizardCrab talked about is less so on Reddit (?), there are more Riot-response friendly topics on Reddit than the forums, etc.

To add on to WizardCrab's posts about the lack of Riot posts in the forums recently in general, I'm pretty sure he hit the mark when he was talking about how busy Riot was (and still is) starting a few months ago. We've had preseason 4, 3 events, and a 4th event coming up... all in a matter of 3-4 months. I used to post on the forums every so often, even in joke threads or whatever, but haven't really had much time to do so. That doesn't mean we don't read the forums though (I know I make at least one visit per day).

As far as the content of the posts themselves... I do believe that on the forums there is somewhat of a sense that it would be better if subject matter experts (aka the guys who get paid to handle the content being discussed) would be the best Rioters to hold a conversation in the thread. For example, whatever merits I think I have to engage in a talk about high level gameplay, the most visible thing people will see about me when I post is: I'm Gold ranked, and I work in Player Support. Those two things aren't exactly screaming "Listen to me because I know more than everyone else" when it comes to gameplay.

Plus when it comes to things we don't have control over, like future plans, release dates, etc... It would be terrible if someone outside of the team commits that team and the LoL community to an expectation. It's like me saying Season 4 is set to start tomorrow, but I don't even work on the team that decides that, and now that team has pressure to release it tomorrow (and I'm likely getting reprimanded). There's also a few instances of when things were presented that probably could've been done with more tact and the aftermath wasn't what I would consider "sexy". But hey, as WizardCrab said, we're human and we make mistakes.

Ultimately, outside of teams who require interaction with the community as part of their job function (community team and balance team are the two that come to my mind) I don't think any Rioter is forced to post on here, Reddit, or anywhere else. Most of us probably who do post probably do so because we simply enjoy it and feel we can contribute. If those two factors aren't met for a Rioter, I wouldn't blame that Rioter at all for not posting.

I think I covered most of the concerns from my perspective, but like I said I do read the forums daily so if there is something that I feel I can contribute to, I'll try once I have more time.

Sorry for invading your Q&A WizardCrab, please continue... and don't hurt me T_T
So, when you say one thing and do another thing that would constitute a lie. See why people attack Riot? So much misinformation from the actual people working on the game ( wasn't hippalaus lead person on pricing and such at the time?) and in charge of things. As a small business owner myself I don't say something to customers that could change or turn out to make me look like a liar. It's bad business and I would bleed customers if I started lying to them.
Also, about all this data. I call bull**** due to the fact that Riot only posts data that makes you guys look good. Lyte got ran off the forums for never posting data and being generally full of **** and having it proven at every turn. Either share the data or just be quiet about it. It makes you guys look like you are covering up more and more and makes you look worse and worse as a company. Not individuals ( i have nothing against you ) but the entire company looks like garbage when you do this.
Example (Not a real number because I don't have them in front of me):

What if I said that we surveyed people about which skins they liked the most or were most likely to buy, and they said rated 1350 RP skin at the highest with a 4.1 on a scale of 5, and every other skin was 3.9 or lower. People would still just call bull****. There's no way to prove this.
@WizardCrab Do you feel like you have to steel yourself everytime you get on the forums? Also we need more crab skins for sure.
A little bit. I love the forums but they can be rough.
A "change of strategy" doesn't change the fact that the community was mislead from initial promises made by Riot; irrespective of whether or not it was planned at the time.
I agree, which is why, for instance, we refunded everybody who ever bought a limited edition skin that we re-released.
@Wizard crab. Why are you changing rengar's q to such a low duration you can hold it? I know the counter play was a bit low but common. He is an assassin.
I'm personally doing nothing of the sort made a lot more people happy then mad so it was a good call.
This is the best we hoped for unfortunately...
I don't see why you don't just ignore the portion of the community that is obviously rubbish. Who cares if someone is butthurt about the prices? If people are spending and it's lead to increased profits then its clearly working. I get that you don't want to have to go on the forums and see people flaming Riot or Riot employees, but I think it's pretty simple to just ignore those people and focus on the portion of the community that is being positive and actually attempting to ask legitimate questions.
Ignoring is easier said than done. Most (if not all) Rioters are extremely passionate about what they do, so when people vehemently attack their decisions, it hurts. Plus we can't completely ignore the attacks because these are our community members that have some legitimate reason to think and say the things that they do, even if their arguments aren't great. We don't want to become callous to player pain at any level, and ignoring flames is a step in that direction I feel.
I disagree with you strongly. Many reds have been attempting to move people to reddit, instead of just updating the forums.
There is a strong difference between a promise and tossing out ideas and opinions. The thing is most promises by reds are never kept, and when things change you don't tell us what's happening.
I'm relatively new at Riot so I could be wrong... but I don't believe we are in the habit of making "promises" on the forums. If something is at the stage where the company is ready to promise it, it will show up on the client News ticker.

Even is something goes live on PBE and you see it via Surrender-at-20, Reign of Gaming, etc- there's still no gauruntee that will ever be released on the live environments.
I don't see why you don't just ignore the portion of the community that is obviously rubbish. Who cares if someone is butthurt about the prices? If people are spending and it's lead to increased profits then its clearly working. I get that you don't want to have to go on the forums and see people flaming Riot or Riot employees, but I think it's pretty simple to just ignore those people and focus on the portion of the community that is being positive and actually attempting to ask legitimate questions.
I don't think "ignoring" is necessarily the right thing to do. However, when we actually pull the trigger to post as opposed to just reading is more a matter of is there an opportunity to be constructive/productive to that particular post?

For example, let's say two people walk up to me. The first goes "OMG WHAT YOU ARE WEARING IS SO !%!#@$#% UGLY I WANT TO PUNCH YOU IN THE FACE RIGHT NOW FOR MAKING MY EYES HURT" versus "I don't really like what you're wearing, but here are some specific reasons why, some suggestions for improvement.. what do you think?". I am exposed to both people's thoughts (read both threads), but I'm most likely going to actually open my mouth to speak (post) to the second person.

Now, if what I was wearing at the time was in fact a crime against fashion, then both people are "right" and bring up good points, so it's good that I absorbed both as opposed to completely ignoring the less tactful individual... It's just that I'm going to be more communicative with the second person. And of course if the second person never comes up and says that, then I can easily just think the first person is some crazy dude harassing me for no reason, which is a fault of both parties (his approach, and my lack of understanding)

As far as the positive posts or some of the neutral posts go... usually by the time I see it someone has already posted exactly what I was going to say, so I don't feel the need to post anymore. Opportunity of being constructive/productive to the thread is no longer there if my thoughts were already taken (outside of polls)
thank you for the post, but when the announcement forum hasnt been used in forever and the announcements get made on reddit it gets annoying. it should be professional courtesy to at least post them in GD or announcements on top of reddit, if it wasnt for some random person i would of never found out about the ip boost for validating emails, how hard is it exactly to copy paste a msg to your own forum?
its fine to use reddit. its not fine to make announcements there and not tell anyone about it outside of reddit. i SHOULD NOT have to go to a subreddit to find out news about the game i play and whos site i visit daily.
OK DEFINITELY don't quote me on any of what I'm about to address as I didn't work directly on anything brought up here but...

I think that the "News" section is the direction Rioters want to go for anything that would've been posted on the Announcements page. I personally have also been trying to keep any widespread support-impacting issues on the Help & Support forums to go along with our Service Status forums.

For the account verification thing, I believe there was a strategy behind why we didn't announce it even though we launched it a month (?) ago on some other servers, and the announcement we did make was part of the strategy.

Anyways, as far as I know all our announcements are on the News page, or we respond to something the community finds (I'm sure if some big thread popped up about discovering email verification on the forums as opposed to Reddit, we would've addressed it here). And as Blackrook said, a lot of our "news" comes from community members who aren't Rioters and take content from the PBE (so it wasn't ready for announcement anyways since we still wanted to test things), and perhaps they or their audience tend to use Reddit over the forums. Even stuff like "Snowdown is now live" is officially announced by us on, and then a Redditor will make a Reddit thread linking to the website post or something later.

The only thing that I can think of that is contrary to this would be Tryndamere's posts, Magus responding to the LCS streaming contract, and Preseason 4 announcements. I obviously am not Tryndamere or Magus so I don't know for sure why it happened, but I think it makes at least a little bit of sense if the discussion started and blew up on Reddit that we would address it there. And the Preseason 4 guys made sure to initiate conversation with both communities.
There are several camps that I've noted on the matter of skin pricing.
*There are those concerned about skins fitting the bracket due to their guidelines (Pink Taric is most obviously mentioned); they are not satisfied with some of the answers given like geometry changes for it
This will be addressed soon. That's all I'm saying for now
*There are those who stick to previous Riot spoken commentary as gospel truth. If you were around pre-1350 skin increasing occurrence, there was the statement that Riot wanted to offer value on some skins without increasing the price (think Blackthorne Morgana/Sad Robot Amumu release range). Kha'Zix was to be a special case with his mecha skin. This is where we go into strategy change talks; the matter gets dicier.
It does get dicier. The world of pricing strategy is super complex. Plus the skin designers keep coming up with cooler and cooler stuff and we don't want to make it all legendary. One thing I can say is that releasing products at a discount, like we do for all 1350 skins, is completely contrary to any properly designed pricing strategy. This 100%, absolutely, definitely loses us money. That is for you guys.
*Some players also feel, to a degree, that their dollar is not valuable due to what is being given back despite the skin price increases. These may be beta players/other players that consider themselves to be around veteran tier. For instance, I received a small RP stipend in season 2 for being a good player. There wasn't really any of this in season 3; the main free reward was icons (free can be a bit loaded as some are gifting/RP tied). Thus, overall skin pricing is attacked as a sign of greed due to a perceived lack of good will.
Everyone has there own value attributed to a product. Provided it isn't a necessity that one has to buy: Someone will look at a product, look at its price tag, if the value of that product (taking into account the opportunity cost of not buying other things with that money) is greater for the individual than the price tag, and they have the money, they will buy it. But that initial value is different for everybody.

Example: The 2013 Lamborghini Aventador sticker price is about $400K. I do not value this product at $400K. Even if I had $400K or even $400 million lying around, I would never buy this product. I simply don't value it at that much. If it were $5,000 however, I'd probably buy one. So there is a price somewhere between $5,000 and $400K where I value this product. But just because I value it there doesn't mean Lanborghini should price it at $5,000. This product just isn't for me.

Same for 1350RP skins. Please don't buy them if they aren't worth 1350RP to you. Wait till they're on sale. Or if they're not worth 675 RP to you, don't buy them at all. In eCommerce, we begin every presentation we make with our mission statement, which says something along the lines of:

"We want players to spend money in League of Legends not because they have to, but because they want to. And we want them to feel good about the money they've spent afterwards."

And that's the basis by which we make decisions. So by all means, don't buy the skins that you don't value if you're going to feel bad about your purchase. Buy the stuff that you love.
Personally, I can attest my own feelings blur as personal bias mixes with the above three at points. I can see both sides.
This is true of everybody. It's great to be able to recognize it and see that there are multiple sides
I will try to translate his request, as i think you are talking at each other but missing the target.
OP wants to know if Riot as a company is endorsing reddit over this very forum.
You made clear that you post more on this forum than on the sub reddit.
That's good to know.
Is the posting on either forum then a purely personal choice?
Can we expect an actual stance on the matter?
As it is right now, members of the community who prefer THIS forum here, feel abandoned because there are more red posts and answers on the sub reddit.
Are there talks about closing one or the other forum?
(i hope my interpretation is kind of correct)
I think I can answer a few of these points:
-Outside of specific job functions that require interaction with the community, most red posts are personal choice. I'm talking in this thread right now due to personal choice. I don't even have a Reddit account =P
What I mean by job function is if a Rioter wants to begin communication due to the fact that it pertains to something they are working on directly. For example, Xelnath talking about reworks. My job function is player support but this thread doesn't really address my responsibilities in that department, which is why this is a personal choice of mine.
-I don't think there will be a company-wide strictly enforced policy of where we can and can't talk about things... it would mostly just be about WHAT we can and can't talk about (NDA, standard stuff in the industry). If there is one, then maybe we can announce some stance, but until then there is none.
-I don't really use Reddit that much unless I'm linked there by someone saying "check this out!", but as far as I understand it subforums are controlled by people outside of Riot, so I'm not sure if Riot would even be able to do if we wanted to shut it down... but I'm highly doubtful there are plans of shutting down any forums of communication, whether it be Reddit, our forums, or elsewhere.
Well WizardCrab would appear to have completely hijacked my thread ;-;
I'll see myself out =c
These threads are super dynamic. I'm just answering the questions I get. If you feel I haven't answered yours, I'm sorry. Zephyreal I think answered your question pretty well.
I think that a lot of people post to reddit because it automatically increases visibility on relevant posts. That's mostly it. But as to some sort of moderation change here, I can't really comment on it. I'm not on that team. I don't know their plans or their thoughts or whether the relevant Rioter is spending his Saturday playing Pinochle with his grandmother and therefore is not posting right now. I'm sorry I can't offer a better response.
Again, I've read the whole thread, and it will be addressed soon.
You once said that Zyra was too strong a mid and that the "Changes" in 3.14 would not hurt mage Zyra.
I will give you the benefit of the doubt in that you believed what you were saying and did not intentionally mislead the Zyra playing community.
In her description she is still listed as mage first, and support second, yet support is her only viable role at the moment.
Dunno. My team just lost to a mid Zyra in solo queue. She was a god.
A lot of us are okay with this but sometimes we just want to know that it's been brought to Riot's attention. Sometimes just a "We are currently looking into this" or "I have read everything in this thread and am not able to make a comment at this time" is just enough to satisfy us.
I'll try it but I have my doubts.
I will try to translate his request, as i think you are talking at each other but missing the target.
OP wants to know if Riot as a company is endorsing reddit over this very forum.
You made clear that you post more on this forum than on the sub reddit.
That's good to know.
Is the posting on either forum then a purely personal choice?
Can we expect an actual stance on the matter?
As it is right now, members of the community who prefer THIS forum here, feel abandoned because there are more red posts and answers on the sub reddit.
Are there talks about closing one or the other forum?
(i hope my interpretation is kind of correct)
I see. Posting at all is any Rioter's personal choice. And where they post is also a personal choice. There are no plans to shut down forums that I know of.
Yo Blackrook! Nice to see one of your first posts. You should do an AMA if you're comfortable with that sort of thing in a new thread! Because no one knows who you are or what you do >.>
If you're not up to that, maybe a quick post in this thread. I'm curious who you are, how long you've been at Riot, what you did before, what team you QA for, what your favorite champion is, and any other cool things about yourself you'd like to add!
Sorry for late response-- I was in a game
I personally don't think an AMA is appropriate simply because new people at Riot aren't exactly special right now because we're expanding so quickly... I personally was part of a new class of like 15 other people.
However, I just created a twitter today @RiotBlackrook if you want to ask questions but I don't know how to use it so bare with me.
I'd like to - but the strict refund policy makes it hard.
I had a skin taken off my account entirely that I've never even used because with the strict refund policy in place I wasn't allowed to return something I never even used....
I won't be spending another dime on League because of that...
We should be able to refund items we never use - and use a refund token on items that we have used. Even if it was only 1 time.
I would implore you not to buy products anywhere that you aren't planning on using. But I'll have to think on this.
I suspect very, very few of us expect you to provide answers on subjects outside your area of expertise, WizardCrab.
That said, I *don't* see why your first response here wasn't "Hmm, I see you have a legitimate problem. I shall locate the Reds responsible and make certain that someone who *can* answer these very important questions shows up to talk with you."
It's hard enough getting a Red to reply to important threads *at all*. A Red who can't answer the relevant questions is nice but not actually helpful.
That person might not be able to respond, might not want to respond, or I might just not know who that person is. This is the best I can do. Some individuals don't like posting on the forums. Riot doesn't force anyone to.
Well, consider: Is it anymore their job to get people?
And is it that person's job to respond to every community response?
What if the person says "No, i can't talk to them", what does he say then?
Remember, he's here at his discretion, not because he's being forced to. More than likely, that means he's at his work desk doing 'something' as he talks.
Or maybe he's off shift, and quite literally 'can't' contact the correct person.
At that point, we're basically asking two people to drop their work duties to talk to the community, not just one.
I'm sitting on my couch at home. I've just been answering questions here for the last 4 hours or so.
Er, what happened to the "Community Program" that was spoken of earlier, that was basically supposedly going to turn the forums into Riot's own version of Reddit here on this site? I think that's what was meant by a shutdown of GD and the forums here in general.
If I can speak for the group here, I think most of us prefer the forums the way they are now, for a plethora of reasons. The addition of FEK provides us with tons of options that go above and beyond what the new community beta has to offer, and as for FEK updates, there seems to be much more coming on the horizon.
Speaking of which, do you yourself use FEK? I spoke with another Rioter recently who was confused about the program, because he thought he would need to input his personal details linked to his Riot account. This actually isn't true at all, as you only need an account if you plan to upload an avatar, which as a red, you probably wouldn't need or want to do that anyways. FEK can still run purely as an add-on that alters the appearance and behaviors of the forum, without having to create an account linked to it.
I honestly haven't looked into using FEK, but maybe I should.
hey, i like this post, thank you, i cant imagine what benefit not announcing it would have for people, but im not interested in that anyway im just glad I found out about it.
moving on, do you think its doable to have a redtracker that is made by riot and tracks rioter account posts on both reddit and the forums, and displays them in a manner that is NOT reddit. because im being honest that website gives me headaches.
My technical background involves making a javascript game of pong for some random class in college.

I have no idea if it would be technically possible to track red posts on Reddit, integrate Reddit with our website, or do both simultaneously. And that's not even talking about figuring out how to take all the posts of a Reddit thread and re-arrange them in a fast and automated way on our website.

Unfortunately, I also don't even know who to talk to to bring this suggestion up, but I think it would be a pretty cool idea. I'm pretty sure the big blocker would be technical limitations. It wouldn't surprise me if it was doable, but from a noob's perspective like mine it seems like quite a daunting task.
You say this......but then Popstar Ahri is a thing.
Oh, its not that we didn't ask for a skin for Ahri. We asked for a skin that you had already completed and we just wanted localized. Instead you went and made a completely different skin only kind of related to the one we wanted and put in likely 4x times the work for roughly the same amount of return that you would've gotten anyway.
And it still doesn't answer as to WHY you don't make more 520 and 750 skins anymore. That price tier has some of the best skins (Commando for example) and they're relatively simple and easy to make compared to all these fancy 975 skins and 1350 skins you guys make, but they've completely died off. Some of us would like to have an alternate or cool look for our champions that doesn't involve us shelling out $10 or $15 all the freaking time.
It seems like you really just want the money from one particular group of people, rather than the whole player base. Just because the 1350 and 975 skins are the most popular doesn't mean you stop making 520 and 750 skins especially if you can still make some money from them.
You don't stop selling the chicken sandwhich just because the roast beef sandwhich is more popular.
Good point. I'll bring this up.
Isn't that effectively the issue being addressed though?
Maybe. But it might also be that they have a well thought out official post on the horizon and it would be counterproductive to post now as well. Or any of a number of other reasons.
I once said that RiotGypsylord was my friend, but really he was only a close acquaintance.
Wow. This is cold. Even for you.
So as a question to the reds here, while I understand that it's not mandatory for rioters to post here, could you guys suggest to people from other areas/departments/idk how riot is organized to post here more if possible. I know I and a lot of other people would be happier or at least less upset with nerfs to their favorite champions (In my case Shyvana) if we had a chance to defend the champion or at least talk them over with someone who can actually do something about it. If I talked to a Rioter on the balance team about Shyvana nerfs, and they talked with me about them, I would be much less annoyed about them, even if she got the exact same needs as if we didn't talk.
The only problem I see with this is it's not scalable. The whole live balance team fits in a corner of one floor of our offices and there are millions of people who would love to talk to them just as much as you. These forums are not a great way to handle that sort of situation. I can see how a lot of people prefer Reddit so there is some sort of democratic process of determining how much one post about Shyvanna actually represents the whole community.

I believe that's why the Beta Forums are trying to replicate that democratic feel to them. On the current forums we really have no efficient way of determining whether a 50 page thread is actually popular or if it's just a few angry players bumping it on a cycle.
I obviously can't speak for all Rioters, but I think this is largely a perception issue more than an actual issue of Riot abandoning the forums for Reddit.
Without knowing the specific reasons why it happens (honestly I don't), there are a few reasons I can think of as to why a Rioter would post on Reddit rather than the forums in any given instance:
-The most common one I believe is that the Rioter posting on Reddit is, in fact, a Redditor (is that a word?).
Reddit is a global center where player can come and interact with us without being limited by our hardware, database organization or whatever else might limit them from posting here.

This means there's advantages to broadcasting global news and discussions there.

I've posted on these forums, EU forums, and reddit. They all have different advantages and trade-offs. Usually, the stuff I post on Reddit is "big" news that we want as many people to see as possible. However, I've also posted there as myself, talking about **** I cared a lot about.

I've done similar things here. The take-aways I've gotten is that reddit does a great job of some things. The forums here do a great job of some other things (e.g. if I am going to have an active, likely-controversial two-way discussion, i'd rather have it here.)

I get it. You feel left out - but Rioters aren't posting here because some of us post on reddit. Rioters aren't posting here because either they don't know what to talk about, don't feel safe posting publicly or they are posting here and are somehow discounted from your group. WizardCrab, Griftrix and a ton of other people have posted around here for years.

A lot of people care - but a lot of people are scared of you guys too. It's intimidating to speak out on a soap box to a crowd of millions with a magnifying glass to every word you say. People read super deeply into what I type. fnord - and I've taken my share of heat for not being clear, needing to change my mind or just being wrong and discussing stuff that other people own and have changed the plans on.

I'm not sure what to do about it all. Some of you guys are here constantly, are encouraging and productive. To you guys, thank you for being here for us and helping us better understand your needs and interests.

That said, its not fair to imply that its not ok for us to talk to other people. I hate to break it to you... but we're not in an exclusive relationship. I have other needs. Sometimes. ... I... I... *tears appear as he runs away cartoon style*
@Xelnath, can you please help me?.... I need RIOT help and every time I try to get help/support from the forums, I'm ignored.
I actually don't do support work, but if you want, email [email protected] - and if its a real issue that isn't handled by our support team (and they do a lot...) I'll talk about it to Morgageddon.
Are there vacancies? I heard I have to remove a Wizardlock from power in order to assume a given level. Maybe 3rd or 4th order? I can probably take them.
Typically, you create your vacancy or demonstrate worth through bold action. In my case, the 7th order was created entirely to keep me from destroying the other orders by accident. I successfully infiltrated the Tower of Balance, laid claim to the Demonstones of Scarizard, Geeves and Statikk... but a 4th stone was bound inside of my heart by the evil Feral Pony, never to be obtained until I discover true love.

... the world may be safe for a while.
You stopped posting in the Council forums. I know there are a few of us who have a lot of free time right now if you need any closed feedback.
You guys asked me to leave - specifically, "we are happy with not having duties and would prefer to remain a legacy club with a place where we can interact".

Anyways, its fine, everything worth discussing we can talk about on GD
Yo Xelnath, important question, for research purposes >.>
Do you have any lore background on the whole demonstone deal you can provide for me?
Demonstones seal away another true power. One that threatens to plunge the entire planet into a new form of darkness. I have obtained 4... its only a matter of time until the full collection is mine.

I can say no more than that.
The only problem I see with this is it's not scalable. The whole live balance team fits in a corner of one floor of our offices and there are millions of people who would love to talk to them just as much as you. These forums are not a great way to handle that sort of situation. I can see how a lot of people prefer Reddit so there is some sort of democratic process of determining how much one post about Shyvanna actually represents the whole community.
I believe that's why the Beta Forums are trying to replicate that democratic feel to them. On the current forums we really have no efficient way of determining whether a 50 page thread is actually popular or if it's just a few angry players bumping it on a cycle.
Yup... after working alongside the core gameplay team (balance, summoners rift features, seasons, etc) I really trust the work they do overall. Plus if they make a mistake and a champion doesn't turn out the way they want it - they will fix it over time.

I don't have access to shyvana's numbers, but the changes *always* feel like an attack on you - but they generally help make the game a lot healthier. Its easy to lose perspective in a single match... but the balance team really works their ass off for you.
Here's the thing about live balance. They're the same ones who decided 'welp, Karma has a difficult kit to balance. Let's not even try.' and left her like that for years. It's difficult to hear 'we'll fix it if we get it wrong' because I hear 'we might fix it next patch, or it might take a year or two for a rework.'
And I get it, you have more important things to do then to ensue that every champion is viable, but it's still irritating to ask for any updates and not even get a 'nothing new, sorry!'
I generally ignore posts that are so one-sided, but this crosses the line where I need to respond.

I get it - you don't get to make the calls, so you want to voice your disagreement with the priorities picked.
I get it - you don't like the results sometimes.

That said, we can't fix every champ on a turn of a dime. Some champs are undertuned to keep them from being abusive. Some have been neglected for a while in an overpowered early game state (Riven, Gragas) and we need to look at them, evaluate them and put in a ton of work to get them in a place where they can survive 2-3 years of new champion design work.

There's a reason bruiser changes - particularly to the power curves - are slow and spread out. They need to be tested and explored.

You feel annoyed, I acknowledge it - but the story your words tell is that you don't trust the people who bust their ass for months trying to make an awesome experience. They're doing what they can - and an important point of that is to get the very worst experiences out of the pool for the millions of players who will enjoy the game when a broken champion is crushing it.

Have I interpreted this wrongly? If you're just venting, I understand. If you genuinely don't believe in the balance guys - I'll be the first to stand up and speak on their behalf.
Yeah, that was out of line. Sorry. I just get so irritated. I like this game, I want it to succeed, I just get irritated about the live balance's design priorities.
I appreciate your apology. Let's do a quick activity - what do you think are the best priorities for the live balance team?

Then we'll go over the bullet points and see if perhaps you really do understand the scope of everything - or perhaps there's pieces you dont know about.
Might want to set your Forum Anger Meter to "low burn" instead of "catastrophe".
I agree with you and all, but attacking people like that makes you part of the reason that Rioter don't post here any more.
Zephyreal, I asked Wizard Crab, but maybe you can pass along a message too: Not cross-posting vital information IMMEDIATELY is a huge bone of contention with people who love and use these forums and don't go to Reddit. Reddit gets a ton of love from Riot- LCS changes, direct communication, heck even Tryndamere posted there. However, very little of that gets reflected on these forums in a timely manner. Can you at least (when publishing important information that is intended for all players) ensure that the same information is VISIBLY posted on the forums at the same time it's posted elsewhere?
That's another small issue that really irks me- the fact that the "news" section isn't tied to the Red Tracker. If you're going to make us go to a completely different place to get news on your own site, make it brain-dead easy to know that something happened. Maybe a little (!) mark next to the News icon on the tool bar when new information has been added?
Or just bring back the Announcements section that was tied to the Dev Tracker?
Well everything posted on the News section is on the front page of, and there's always the navigation bar on the top. I believe it utilizes that new community beta forum, but as far as I can tell the Dev Tracker only looks at these forums. I would imagine that as that beta forum gets more developed, we'll see more features with it, although I can't comment on any specific features.

I agree that cross-posting is probably the best (I'm a fan of bringing information TO players aka using as many as possible: Reddit, forums, Twitter, etc.) but from what I can tell a lot of red posts you see both here and on Reddit are responses to an already ongoing conversation as opposed to a conversation a Rioter has started. It would be slightly awkward in some scenarios to do cross-posting, but again I'm mostly in agreement here.

Thanks Xelnath for clarifying the Reddit situation. I've literally only started reading Reddit (not just the LoL subreddit) like two weeks ago >_>;;
Thanks Xelnath for clarifying the Reddit situation. I've literally only started reading Reddit (not just the LoL subreddit) like two weeks ago >_>;;
I didn't even know what reddit was (aside from my friend skydart talking about making a costume of the character) until one of our assistant producers told me she had to block herself from reading it at home. It's basically Fark 2.0 with better organization
Xelnath, thank you very much for your help. If you wish to know, my screen freezes about a second away from my deaths every single game. In that time, I know I could pull off a quick flash or barrier or even character ability and I might survive, but I never get that option. I've looked it up and seems like other people have had this issue as well. I'll ask for Morgageddon's help as soon as I can. Thanks again, sir!
I have a tech support background, although I don't do it for League of Legends, but the first thing I'd suggest (kind of as a very basic first step) would be to make sure your graphics card drivers are updated.

If it is, I would suggest creating a ticket to our Tech Support team at They'll probably need to get some information about your Mac to troubleshoot the issue, which would best be done in a one-on-one ticket conversation. I literally just walked over to a Tech Support guy, told him about your situation, and he said he would want to assist you via ticket.

Hope this helps!
In order:
A) Are there any big items/champs completely dominating? Are we in a League of Cleavers situation? Is there a Release Xin Zhao on the loose? If so, we should probably fix that.
B) Are there any champions completely useless? Like, sub 45% win rate useless? Buff them.
C) Are there any champions that FEEL overpowered/underpowered, but have win rates that fall within the average? Why is this? If it's a problem with the meta not matching their skillset or matching it too well, they might be fine, just in a good environment, or maybe a pro player just did something awesome with them. Either way, it might be a good idea to check on them.
D) You know those champs we've decided have kits that are impossible to buff? We should probably get some people on fixing their kits.
E) Atma's/Wit's End/Wriggle's item situations, where they are so situational they may as well be useless.
This will still be incomplete but its more like: (p.s. this is not perfect, so pls dont try to use this to beat up other designers for picking items lower on the list than something else, etc)
  • Are any recent design changes causing the game to be unable to ship? Resolve them
  • Do we have the resources to playtest our balance changes today?
  • Are the playtest servers and technology working? If not, find engineers or producers to help us keep working
  • Is game rewarding the right types of behaviour?
  • Are any champions distorting the game in a way that is eliminating entire classes from play? (Same question for competitive)
  • Are any champions coming up soon that are on track to diminish the variety or fun of the game experience? If so, reach out to their designers and discuss it
  • Does the shipping team need support tracking down issues or need to be communicated with to ensure a successful patch?
  • Are skins coming down the pipe potentially going to damage the readability of a character (see metal suit lux)? Test skins early to provide feedback
  • What is the state of competitive play? Is it fun, entertaining and healthy?
  • Are any systemic changes needed to income, flow or side balance?
  • What characters are "on watch" for potentially strong/weak status?
  • Has a champion been on the strong/weak board for a long time or has had enough data collected to justify investigation?
  • Does the champion belong in its category? (is Rengar an assassin, a bruiser or something in between)
... I could go on, but thats just an early list of things we discuss regularly before even reaching the "hey we might need to think about balance changes to this champion". On top of this, there's bugfixes from previous releases which can consume weeks to track down and resolve once discovered.
Huh. Didn't know live balance dealt with stuff like bugfixes.
Yeah, I'm a moron. Sorry, ignore me.
That's far from their only job - everyone works on bugfixes because everyone causes bugs... except me... yeah... I've totally never broken anything... ever.

... yeah...

... actually, Morello doesn't do implementation work, so he actually doesn't cause bugs. Chew on THAT for a moment. O.o


  • #37 BestAhriEU

    i love yasuo ... so glad he is not getting nerfed i was kinda afraid

  • #29 Mysnomer

    I like how Riot doesn't even seem to understand the terminology of their own game. I assume by a "fed" Ziggs, they mean one with adequate to high farm, because if your team has been feeding, and the Ziggs has fed off of them, then he absolutely deserves to roll you. Fed means a high a kill count, and the "counterplay" to that is to not feed. If he's broken merely with good farm, okay, but then point that out. Perfect farm =! Fed. :\

    Last edited by Mysnomer: 1/13/2014 9:34:35 AM
  • #20 CoolRoot

    So, basically, NiP was disqualified because Zorozero forgot to patch his client before the game?

  • #14 Elnoobus

    GJ,  My  Scrolling finger is hurting now .. :(

  • #19 overneathe

    Yeah, sorry about that, I removed a lot of unnecessary stuff, but they've just written A LOT... :/

  • #34 Benegesserit

    An expand button would be nice so I don't have to scroll through a bunch of fluff conversation

  • #13 SteppenKat

    This proves people picked Zyra because she was FotM, not because of her kit's strengths.

    She is still completely fine and a tad stronger compared to last season.

    Whoever percieves her as a weak pick probably doesn't play that much support in the first place.

    Last edited by SteppenKat: 1/12/2014 7:44:51 AM
  • #11 aNoxtea

    Nerf Ziggs Passive, that's fine and understandable but dont nerf his abilities just because he is good at farming. Without the ability to farm Ziggs is trash because he needs good farm since his ap scalings aren't really high. Ziggs is good in the current meta because he is amazing at teamfights and assassins aren't that great against him. They can still kill him very easily, especially in late game. A full build KhaZix for example will most likely oneshot you even before you can activate zhonyas. Just because there are certain champions that are good in or good against the current meta doesn't mean they are op. Remember blue Ezreal in the League of Black Cleaver(assassins)? He was amazing at surviving their burst and then kiting them or chasing them to death. He got nerfed but he was still the best adc against assassins but now in the new meta he isn't that great anymore since Tanks like Nasus/Shyv/Mundo will chase him down and they don't care if they get slowed, they will kill you when you are on your own. Same thing will happen to Ziggs. He's really popular atm but people will figure out how to shut him down(like with Yasuo's wall for example). If you wanna nerf something, nerf Riven/Kassadin. There is a reason why their ban rate is so high and it's not because they are annoying to play against.

  • #15 gualdox

    the problem isnt his farming the problem is that he can poke u from miles away with not so high mana costs spammable ability and autos, plus he has a semiglobal ult so he doesnt need to roam so hard he also snowballs hard and can disengage easy with his W and E and his mana problems are solved with athenes if u can manage mana 

  • #26 Nevran

    This is actually quite false.

    You are basically blaming Ziggs for being what he is, a mage that realy on poke, like xerath. There is nothing wrong with that.

    His Q and ult are really easily dodgeable once you grasp how it work, you can't blame a ziggs for putting a good ult at the good time. You have time to see it and it was nerfed in a previous patch so the main damage area is reducted.

    His E is a zoning tool more than a disengage depending on where his opponent stand in his minefield. His W is an unreliable escape move, have a huge CD and very low base damage/AP¨ratio so yeah, no problem with it being a disengage.

    Athene help, of course, his mana intensity but I personnally play Ziggs with a glass canon runes set (giving him yellow mana regen) and trust me, ziggs WILL be oom if he push/Bully consistently.

    The problem of Ziggs is his passive, it is REALLY strong, you can't win a short trade against him with it.
    The second problem is that player are 'discovering' him and doesn't understand how 'easy' he can be to dodge. The thing is that Ziggs also punish heavily every melee laner, a thing that people doesn't seem to understand. But against high range mage, he basically turn in a farmfest.

    Also, trust me, if you have a maokai, a xin or even a Vi, he is gonna get eaten. This guy ain't the worst mid when it come to escaping but instant gap closer just rape him.

  • #33 JibJoker

    Agreed. I've played Ziggs since he was first released and recognize that while he is great at his role, he has major weaknesses to certain champs. Anyone with an instant or close to instant gap closer will utterly wreak him in lane (I've had troubles in mid against even Ezreal). Ziggs is also one the the mid champs who absolutely needs blue for his lane because of exactly what you said, he will go OOM immediately when he begins bullying. I think that maybe his passive needs a slight nerf but I believe his E is what makes him so hard to deal with (10 seconds of zoning is too much). 

  • #10 Nusaik

    I think Ziggs' main problem is his minefield. It lasts 10 fucking seconds. Squishies can NOT walk through it under any normal circumstances, since they will lose half their HP on 2-3 mines. It is basically a wall for them. The duration is not in line with other terrain abilities like Anivia wall or Jarvan ult and it's way too powerful, especially when fighting in the jungle.

  • #16 Lipton

    Sir, i think you got a valid point.

  • #18 NoobyBanana

    I completely agree. That minefield is fine and all for farming, but to zone someone out for 10 seconds is ridiculous. I've been an avid ziggs player for a while, and whenever i see him in ARAM against me i get frustrated because i know he'll zone out half of the map and wont let our team do anything. I believe his minefield should only last 3-5 seconds, so it still provides good zoning, but not permanent zoning because with Athenes you can use it as soon as it dissipates. 

  • #32 JibJoker

    As someone who has played Ziggs since he first came out. I always thought the minefield was too abusive. I have played games where I literally forced the ADC out of a teamfight in the jungle by blocking them off. I find it somewhat amusing that people are only just realizing how good Ziggs is at what he does. But I definitely agree that his minefield needs a shorter duration.

  • #9 Sohail316

    Yasuo is the dumbest champ made, they are giving the new champs more than 1 passive and too much abiIitys making them OP and abIe to get away so you cant gank without baiting a 1v1 and hopefuIIy surviving Iong enough tiII your jung ganks

  • #17 Alboo

    You are saying he is the dumbest champion ever made cause he has 2 passives but, Aatrox does also and is he OP? Not really he is just in an ok place. I don't get why everyone is mad at the 2 passives, the others that have it aren't considered OP pick or ban champs

  • #21 Gameguy301
    Quote from Alboo

    You are saying he is the dumbest champion ever made cause he has 2 passives but, Aatrox does also and is he OP? Not really he is just in an ok place. I don't get why everyone is mad at the 2 passives, the others that have it aren't considered OP pick or ban champs

    Don't forget zac and akali

    yasuo pays a price for both passives, he deal 10% less damage on crit, that's multiplicative not additive so you deal 225% with IE, and he's a Melee assassin yet receives no MR per level, hp per level ismt that great either.
    Last edited by Gameguy301: 1/12/2014 3:01:38 PM
  • #25 Nevran

    The real problem about Yasuo right now (coming with 'other' problem but this one is the most problematic) is his flow, flow is really too strong right now, it give him too much effective health.

  • #27 skippersd

    Flow is part of the problem indeed. There is only one counterplay against his resourceless free shield, pick a resourceless (or at least energy based) champ. At top lane Garen shoud easily beat him, (silence, damage reduce before tornado hits, execute), Shen (spam  Q) or even Akali/Lee.

    I'd say a bigger part is the wall. There is only one other ability that can compare, kayle's ult. The wall, and his mobility means he has two form of counterplay against skillshots, and can "kayle ult" most other things (AA, projectiles) with a simple spell. Thus, you must pick either a highly mobile melee champ, or a tank (especially if it has point & click CC). (Diana/Akali for the first, Cho/Nasus for the second citeria.

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