Rengar's Rework, Maps Skin Ideas, Miss Fortune's PBE Changes, Quinn QoL Change, PBE Store Updates, Signs a Champ Needs Change


Important: Unofficial PBE Patch Notes for 1/22/2014 - Scorched Earth Renekton Splash, Jinx, Kass, Kha'Zix, Skarner, Renekton ChangesRengar Rework Strikes Back

More on Rengar's Rework

Originally Posted by Riot (View RedTracker Source)

Will the quest thing still happen when you face a Kha'zix?
Yes definitely keeping that.

Scruffy is the janitor of my heart.

I love these changes!
What was the big decision on making Bonetooth in the trinket slot?
I can shed some light on this -

Previously, BTN was having issues for a few reasons:

1. Succeeding in lane or in ganks before purchasing BTN made you feel bad about 'wasting' some stacks
2. The actual purchase of BTN was quite poor in immediate stat-gain relative to other items

Even in the first draft of the rework (with it being built out of a Hunter's Machete), it still faced some issues -AND- had to carry the burden of being Stat-efficient, Low/Mid Cost so people would buy it, and the upgrades had to feel useful (not to mention the effective gold value of whatever passives it would have) and BTN's back is starting to get a little heavy.

Add on top of that the amount of sustain that jungle items are meant to have already to compete in the new jungle/season, and that's quite a lot that BTN has to do. So, we could try to make it balanced (and no one buys it, or they do and lose gold-efficiency), or we make it fit into the game as-is (and you buy it 100% of the time for cost-efficient stats, and sometimes get premium bonuses). It was kind of messy.

Players had always been asking for a way in the previous threads/discussions for a way for Rengar to have it at level 1, which was pretty cool - we just didn't have a really good way to do it at the time. Fast-Forward to now and we have Trinkets! A free item you get at level 1 with no cost and no stats associated with it. And so, the decision was made. And after a playtest i can tell you, it feels pretty awesome

(Bonus Round - to all those worried about alternate maps, it's entirely possible for us to include a 'BTN Trinket' but let it keep none of the yellow/red/blue functionality so Knifecat gets to see the world and bring the hunt with him. Think Poro-Snax!)
When can Rengar leap from his ult? When he's stealthed? When he's fast? Either? Neither?
He can leap from stealth just like current Rengar.
I like the overall direction, but removing ferocity stacks after 10 seconds will hurt early ganks for Jungle Rengar (someone I had over 100 games with in s3). If Rengar can't bring the empowered E to the gank, then his pre lvl 6 ganks aren't going to be strong, which I don't think is an area of Rengar that you want to nerf. Thoughts?
This would be true if we didn't change anything else. The goal here is that Rengar enters fights with 0 Ferocity, quickly builds up and then releases with a powerful finisher. This will give him a longer and more engaging fight and we will add power to him if he needs it to be balanced.
Could you please explain how the ferocity gain post ult works? Is it a constant +1 ferocity per .75s for 5s after ult with a solid speed boost, that you can just keep pulling from?
Right, its the same as the ferocity gain that current Rengar has, but it starts after he exits stealth. The goal here is that coming out of his ult he will be in super charged fighter mode and be able to hit 5 ferocity stacks multiple times in the fight.
So I have one question dealing with the Bonetooth Necklace changes below. Since your making it a trinket that provides a ward have you considered any variation which would give players the option between type of ward or scanner sweeper? Just curious considering that needing a scanner could prevent players from picking up this cool reworked item. O yeah the Rengar changes sound pretty cool to me might be even more fun now!
Yes this is our very first iteration of it as a trinket. We will probably try out giving the option for all 3 trinket active types or even making it a unique active that only Rengar has.
This might be a bit off-topic, but I really like what you're doing with Bonetooth Necklace by making it a trinket. Is there any possibility of seeing a change like this for Viktor's Hex Core?
This is the first that we are exploring the idea of a unique character trinket. If it works out well for Rengar we may think about if it could also be a good change for Viktor. The two situations are not exactly alike, so there will probably bee some differences in our approach for Viktor. For now no work is happening on Viktor's item but don't count it out for the future.
The most egregious change right now in my mind is the change to his passive. I actually don't mind the decaying of his stacks of ferocity, it's the loss of the jumping from brush that really just strips away the essence of Rengar.
He is still able to leap out of brush and his ult. The changelist I posted only mentions things that have changed. I agree that if we removed his leap he wouldn't feel like Rengar anymore.
Please take a look at this, it's not complete but just tell me if you guys can do something like this.
That would be super cool. We haven't planned anything like that yet but I like the idea.

Maps Skin Ideas

Originally Posted by Riot (View RedTracker Source)

I think it is time for there to be a place where people can suggest Map skin ideas.
Some of the ideas I have seen posted elsewhere include
an Underwater Version of SR
A Piltover Skin for SR
Winter SR
Harrowing SR
Lava SR
What else could we do with our maps that would make really interesting skins?

Miss Fortune's PBE Changes On The Way

Originally Posted by Riot (View RedTracker Source)

When do they happen? The anticipation is killing me!!! I'm dying to test them out. It's been roughly a week since they were announced. You said you'd cover more details in a week. Don't leave us hanging D:
hi! sorry for the brief silence on this. current plan is to submit some changes tomorrow night if everything works out smoothly. that would mean that she would be playable on the pbe on friday (at the earliest) based on the deploy schedule for pbe patches. i'll post 'patch notes' for the changes once i do submit the changes, so there might be detailed information as early as tomorrow night.

Quinn QoL Change

Originally Posted by Riot (View RedTracker Source)

The only reason I want a change to show a counter is because of the countless times I've Auto > E'd to mark a target right as Valor marks it resulting in lower damage output (as opposed to Valor Harrier Mark > auto -consumes mark- > E Harrier mark > Auto -consumes mark-) as I only consume 1 Harrier mark as opposed to 2.
i was able to make time today to look into this—i just submitted a change for testing (internal tests and pbe) that will put harrier on cooldown when valor is unable to mark a target as vulnerable. this includes a timer for the earliest time valor will select a target.

feel free to send feedback my way. curious to know if/how this alters standard quinn play. thanks!

PBE Store Updates

Originally Posted by Riot (View Original Source)

Greetings PBE,

We're currently working on changing up how the Store works on the PBE to create a better experience for you guys. You may have noticed a few featured bundles branded as "PBE Starter Kits" to help new PBE players get up and running with all the champions and most of the more commonly used runes.

Skin Pricing

As of now we've reset all of the skins available on PBE to match what's on the Live Store. Previously the prices were kind of random, with some skins being 1 RP, others being 390 RP, and newer stuff being the same as the live price. First of all, we wanted the prices to be consistent. Secondly, we chose the Live prices as our consistent system so that you know how much a skin cost when you try it on PBE. However, with regard to new skins that are "in testing" and not released on Live yet, we will make sure that they are affordable for the period of testing. (i.e. if we put Spirit Guard Udyr on PBE with no way to buy it other than 3250RP, that wouldn't encourage testing for him so we don't want to do that.)

Going forward we want to make all skins on PBE the same RP price as they are or will be on Live, but for skins that need testing we'll allow them to be unlocked for 1 IP to ensure that everyone can contribute to testing them. (This way you'll also know how much a skin will cost when it is released!)

Let me know if you have any questions,


NOTE: Please let me know in this thread if any skin on the PBE store right now is a different price/availability than it is on the NA store!

Signs a Champion Needs Change

Originally Posted by Riot (View RedTracker Source)

If I could ask a more abstract question:

How do you go about deciding how much "feels like the existing champion" is enough? Or conversely, what constitutes "toxic enough" to warrant a change? How does projected workload play into this? Is it just by iteration only?
Good questions. "Feels like the existing champion" is a very important part of our approach to a rework or visual update. The end goal is"how can we make this champion the most fun and realized version that they can be while preserving their identity."

When it comes to "toxic enough," we don't really have a hard threshold but there are 2 ways that we approach this issue: 
- We try to tackle champions that have more negative effects on the game as a whole first (more toxic you might say).
- Whenever we make any change, whether it's focused on lowering toxicity or not, we ask if the benefits of the changes outweigh the costs of changing something. And we definitely understand that there are many costs associated with changing a character that people have gotten familiar with and grown to like.


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