[4.8] Gameplay Patch Forecast, Lifetime RP Purchase Rewards To Be Revealed This Year, 4.8 Team Builder Bugs, Pixel Poro Minigame

Important: Unofficial PBE Patch Notes for 5/13/2014 - Twisted Treeline Jungle Monsters Changes, Udyr's E Now With a Stun Indicator

[4.8] Live Gameplay Patch Forecast

Originally Posted by Riot (View Original Source)

Hey guys, Jag here again for the 4.8 Patch Forecast. We're trying to rotate the Live Gameplay designers that deliver this each patch so you get to know more of the Balance team, but RiotChun was hard at work on some Kha'Zix changes (more details on that below), so hopefully you'll hear from him or SmashGizmo for 4.9.

As it stands, this may be a light patch because we're working on a few mid/long-term changes that you may not see until 4.9 or later, but we'll do our best to keep you on top of everything we have in flight. When we first started doing these forecasts (not too long ago), we thought we'd just talk about all the challenges we faced in the past and present, but didn't fully consider how long each would take in terms of getting 'right.' This might give a better idea of how we approach design and conception.

1) Because we saw how light 4.8 was in terms of our shorter-term projects, we also took some time to 'modernize' a few champions in the game. There are a lot of challenges to doing this constantly (we can talk about that later), but the ones here were selected for their low impact, high value for players without skewing or being 'halfway' fixes that don't address core issues.

The ones below we're in the process of concepting and ideation, and some are closer than others but they're all at least close enough to talk about:

2) Soraka

Solo lane Soraka is definitely a problem with her easy lane clear and almost infinite harass potential. As with Lulu, we have to ask the question of whether or not we think this is a character that has a play pattern that can provide healthy gameplay as both a support and a mid/top laner. We looked into solutions to just hit Soraka's wave clear, like reducing the Starcall damage done to minions, but overall it's hard to see her having such significant sustained damage through the base values of Starcall, even when she has tankier builds. To that end we may refocus some of the power value of Starcall into utility instead of damage.

3) Feral Flare

We've had a lot of pivots on this item in terms of its purpose and long-term direction. I think the live version more accurately reflects the concept we want it to facilitate - a mid/late game item that has strong scaling for carry/autoattacking champions. We still need to make sure that it fits in, in terms of jungler map interactivity, so we're looking to tweak the item's power level while refining the kill/assist mechanics to further incentivize Feral Flare junglers to at least occasionally leave their camps and pressure lanes.

4) Skarner

We're still working on some changes to help Skarner's stickiness and reduce the snowballiness of his current passive. He probably won't have changes for 4.8, but he's still a high priority we're actively working on. Promise!

5) Kha'zix

The team has been hard at work on finding ways to make Kha'zix's popular evolutions balanced. As a side goal we're trying to make all 4 feel like viable evolutions (at least situationally), but our greater concern is keeping him an interesting Assassin with options for counterplay without giving him too much Fighter-level utility (and the capability to brute force fights like Fighters while finishing the fight quickly like an Assassin). The damage reduction on his evolved Ultimate is one of the big culprits here, as there are no avenues of counterplay against him when he stealths (detect and kill him? run away? He has tools to avoid both!).

6) LeBlanc

Our team is continuing analysis on LeBlanc. Her problems remain the same: she's a high burst, high mobility assassin with low counterplay. However, we're reluctant to totally break down her high points without making sure has ways to meaningfully contribute to her team's success, whether that be through her Mage patterns (i.e. her CC) or her Assassin patterns. The problem right now is her 'core identity' is so tied in with her unbalanced play that extracting one from the other is a bigger challenge.

7) Nidalee

Nidalee has been problematic for some time now. We like seeing comps oriented around poking the enemy, but the onslaught of life-or-death projectiles that Nidalee can throw at enemy teams in the mid/late game, particularly when she's built some cooldown reduction, is not interesting gameplay. We have larger set of promising changes in progress for her that fixes her long range spear problems while trying to emphasize more of her "hunting" ideas (you'll hear about it when we get more confidence in the overall direction), but we may need to make a power adjustment on the interim if Nidalee remains so optimal for poke comps.

8) AD Carries

Twitch has made a big splash recently in the competitive scene. Some of our design team has wondered why it did not happen earlier, given his strong laning and fantastic end-game scaling. We're guessing his prettier (or uglier, depending on the thematic we're going for) model helps. We're not going to rush any changes on him yet since we'd like some time to see how a high pick rate on him will play out, but he's definitely on our radar. His end-game hypercarry role is something we like and are unlikely to remove from the game; if anything, his early Contaminate (formerly Expunge) damage may be a little too powerful.

Lucian has been a steady pick in competitive for some time now. His combination of very reliable and effective damage in lane (his Piercing Light ability has relatively low counterplay and Lightslinger is a strong scaling damage passive), as well as his very high levels of safety make him a carry with virtually no weaknesses. We are a little more confident that we're going to need to make adjustments to him soon to help give him more defined strengths and weaknesses instead of being such a generalist blind pick.

9) Jungle

We have been spending a lot of time examining what function the jungle plays in League of Legends and how to evaluate jungler interactions we like seeing in the game. We need more time to deliver a cohesive story here but I want to note that it is at the front and center of our team's focus right now.

10) Braum

Braum has just released and we are keeping a close eye on his power level!

Lifetime RP Purchase Rewards To Be Revealed This Year

Originally Posted by Riot (View Original Source)

What happened to the lifetime purchase RP rewards?

::wisps of air spiral out from Thresh’s lantern and an apparition appears resembling DontHassleDaHoff::

“You summoned me, your grace” – ‘daHoff says.

“Where are our Lifetime purchase RP rewards?” The Player asks.

::The apparition twists unto itself, contorts into Baron Nashor, then shifts into Draaaaaaven, then morphs into Braum. Unable to find a stable shape, the apparition, concedes to the form of ambiguity, taking the shape that The Player wants, before shifting to the next form.::

“The Player has spoken, it has many voices. We’ve asked many of you and the feelings around this program causes much contention. One issue that we’re concerned with is the treatment of players that spend money differently than those that don't. Another is that the rewards are achievable without spending too much money. Another is that the rewards are valuable enough to feel good to those that receive them, without feeling too bad to those that don't. Most of the ideas we've come up with solve one or more of these concerns but not the rest.

“I'm promised Hippalus that these problems will all be solved by the end of 2014 and the Player will be happy. We value all of our Players, and we’re keeping that in mind in our design of the program. Hopefully The Player likes it as well.”

::With his last words, DontHassleDaHoff, stares at the player with a look of hope, seeking approval, but expecting the worst.::

4.8 Team Builder Bugs and Feedback

Originally Posted by Riot (View Original Source)

Hey all you PBE Team Builders,

For 4.8 we have a couple of updates for Team Builder that need some PBE testing. Check these out and post a comment here if you spot any bugs. Be sure to post reproduction steps so we can check it out and narrow down the cause of any bugs.

  1. The unranked "Classic 5v5" Wins counter in your Summoner Profile should now include all the wins you've accrued using Team Builder.

  2. Captains can now grant invite privileges to buddies they invite to Team Builder (just like in normal pre-champ-select lobbies)

We have some more improvements we're working on for 4.8 and I'll update this thread when they are available for testing.



EDIT: Team Builder is available from 1-5pm PST on Monday/Wednesday and from 6am-10am PST on Tuesday/Thursday.

Pixel Poro Minigame - Featuring Braum - Out Today!

Originally Posted by Riot (View RedTracker Source)

Braum’s epic shield may look strong enough to stop an avalanche crashing down the side of one of Freljord’s peaks, but that doesn’t mean it can’t be used for a much more whimsical past-time.

Pixel Poro, a new browser minigame (compatible with IOS and Android browsers), finds the upcoming addition to the League of Legends champion roster battling Leona for support supremacy. Volley an adorable poro back and forth between snowy cliffs, trying to knock him past your opponent to score points. You can either play by yourself or locally with a friend. First champion to score 10 points wins the match - and the poro’s undying love.

We hope you enjoy Braum and Leona’s pixel makeovers. Keep that shield up!

Click here to play!



  • #73 SummonerSupreme
    Quote from DemonFromEL0Hell »
    Quote from WithoutQuestion »

    They could just easily fix him by adding a stealth (!) similar to what Rengar has during his ult when he gets too close.

    I know riot is all about game balance blah blah blah but i really hate that game play mechanic. Stealth should be stealth. If you are playing a champion that does not have permanent stealth ( evelynn with the (!) is fair because its permanent stealth ) and have to cast a spell to stealth, then i dont think the enemy team should be able to detect you at all unless they drop a pink ward or have oracle.

    Stealth is incredibly overpowered since seasons 4 and gives people a hugely unfair advantage without actually requiring skill. It's purely a cheese tactic at this point and walking around stealthed with a BOTRK is way too rewarding for how easy it is to do. Eve is the worst offender but I still have a problem with stealth in general, I used to actually buy pinks and put them in my lane vs stealth champs and now I can't do anything. 

  • #84 DemonFromEL0Hell
    Quote from WithoutQuestion »

    I definitely understand how you feel about stealth it's becoming more like camouflage, then stealth. But if we're being honest Stealth itself is just really annoying to deal with and can be really unfair.

    Example: Before Rengar changes his ult was just so lame and bs because the duration was so long combined with the speedup he could almost run through half the map and you would just die. There's just no counterplay and no fun because you had no way of knowing how far he could have gotten in that amount of time.
    Or like with Twitch's stealth how he can just activate when getting ganked in a lane and then just be safe from the press of a button :/

    Idk Riot should have seen this issue and addressed it when they decided to remove the invisibility on pink wards, the least they could do is allow us to carry more then one. Remember when this season started and Evelynn was the most feared champ again? Ugh.

    Also Oracle's lens requires you to be lv.9 and throw 475g into it.

    I feel like oracle lens was a success for killing wards but meh for stealth champs. I think Oracle Elixir can still exist is some way. Maybe have the upgrade for the Oracle lens last for lets say a minute of time you can see stealth units (the same way oracle elixir worked. not how oracle lens has the awkward aoe mechanic). This can be toggled (so you can tactically use the visibility) and after the minute is up you have to buy another upgrade for 475g.

  • #94 acheron16

    The problem is not stealth by itself, but the fact that items that provide true sight were nerfed at the beginning of season 4.

    They need to either let red trinket to detect invisible champions at level 1 (and therefore nerf those champions to shit tier) or introduce a new item that detects such champions and doesn't cost a ludicrous amount of gold.

  • #10 siegebot

    >Next time we will buff skarner, promise!

    I thinkI've heard that about 5 times from Rot already. Taking it slowly doesn't help him to be usefull.

  • #30 TehUnacceptable
    Quote from siegebot »

    >Next time we will buff skarner, promise!

    I thinkI've heard that about 5 times from Rot already. Taking it slowly doesn't help him to be usefull.

    After replay system, half life 3, summoners rift vu, dragon vu, bron vu, dunk master darius, templar moderkaiser, crazy cat woman yorick, sion rework, life time rp rewards, etc

  • #49 Kingbizkit

    Skarner viable:2018

  • #8 Gameguy301

    Hope they go easy on lucian, I like his overall power, it just needs to be a bit smoother across early / mid / late. I'd rather they buff / tweak other carries to compete rather than nerf lucian, but if they want to shuffle his power about that's fine.

    Last edited by Gameguy301: 5/14/2014 1:39:24 AM
  • #31 OJFrost

    I agree I don't think he's not overpowered necessarily just relatively strong vs other adc's throughout the game. Also, I really liked your points about ADC itemization a little while back. You should flesh it out into a full article. Pls Ty.

    Last edited by OJFrost: 5/14/2014 10:23:36 AM
  • #35 WithoutQuestion

    One of his issues I think is that he can AA as his skills are going off, you can see this a lot if you W while in AA range or E into someone's face. It's just a lot of hidden power. They should make his passive scale instead of having it at a constant 50%, something like 30/40/50 levels 1/7/13 would work or however they find to be fitting. Even reducing the range on his Q or the base damage on his W would be nice. Think of Ezreal's damage on his W, that's what Lucian's should be like instead of the monstrosity it is now.

  • #7 Swaggafagit

    Uh pretty stupid reasoning as to why Twitch started getting picked again.. Nerfs to tanks and less burst all-in junglers allowed Twitch to come back again. Less Vi,Panth,Wu in the jungle at higher levels is what caused him to come back a bit, not the fucking VU lol

  • #66 WithoutQuestion

    That + all the sustain support picks have been out of the picture for a while and soraka is only really being played mid. Twitch can easily escape things like a leona or thresh lockdown by just pressing Q as he see's the animation coming. So there isn't much counterplay to him besides always holding a pink ward.

  • #5 SummonerSupreme

    2) I'm not even going to hope they don't nerf soraka support into the ground , I don't care anymore. Anyone who plays soraka mid deserves to die in a firey hell because a braindead monkey could play her mid and she's so fucking dumb strong in lane and makes teamfights boring as shit.

    3) FF needs a slight buff and retune, glad they're on this and I think they'll help it out.

    4) Skarner buffs pls. Idk what to even think, we've all given up on him being good again right?

    5) Khaz is....troubling. I think he's ok now but hope they don't buff another one of his evolved spells. Then we just go back to playing him evolving W first or whatever they buff.

    6) Leblanc desperately needed a change for a while. Too oppressive with a ridiculously good escape so she risks nothing. LB is always safe and always has kill pressure, a ridiculous amount of it.

    7) Nidalee at last. Took you long enough to admit her Q CD is a huge problem.

     8) Nerf lucians early game for the love of god his late game is definitely good enough to warrent not being the best early game adc in game.  He's so freaking safe and easy to play he should be doing Ezreal levels of damage if not less because he has no skillshots. Q, dash away, W, culling->throw in some autos and you're a pro lucian. I wouldn't mind a buff to adcs in general(besides lucian. but that's just me. Twitch is only OP cause invisibility has been OP since season 4 started, played against Eve and twitch team today and god it is so stupid how huge an advantage stealth gives, had to work 5 times harder and play 5 times smarter to win the game.

    9) Buff tank jungles please, make jungle less rewarding for high damage dealers and add 100 HP to spirit golem.

    10) Please don't nerf Braum into the group because a bunch of people who don't even play bot lane regularly think he's op and don't know how to play against him. Once people learn to not get level 2 cheesed and play smarter they will realize he's fine. At most nerf his base HP regen or armor to make him more squishy/ vulnearable to poke but seriously he's fine.

  • #6 raikaria

    Outside of The Culling, Lucian actually has one of the worst lategames of all Marksmen. He has no real steroid to back up his damage, and Lightslinger dosen't make up for the raw rightclicks or someone like Caitlyn or Tristana late.


    The Culling is alright late, if only for pushing/seige purposes [It can get stopped in a teamfight rather easily], but past that, Lucian's lategame isn't very good at all really, and is certainly in the bottom half. [I'd say Quinn and Corki are clearly worse late, and possibly Ezreal. Ashe and Varus have their C.C ults to argue back with. Urgot isn't even a carry.]


    Also I'd say Caitlyn is better early than Lucian in most situations simply due to range and being safer early, and Caitlyn is also safer lategame and deals as much, if not more, DPS while she's at it. Lucian kinda needs to snowball a bit and if he has a rough start for whatever reason he's out of the game, Caitlyn, not so much.

    Last edited by raikaria: 5/14/2014 1:07:39 AM
  • #58 Yaamahri

    Quinn is better late due to AS steroid on W, Cait doesn't have "raw rightclicks" she falls off rather hard lategame too. 

  • #68 WithoutQuestion

    If anyone cared about late game anymore we would still see teams attempting to run Vayne's Kog's or Trist's.

    Cait doesn't have much dueling potential though compared to Lucian. She's basically a mindless push machine whereas Lucian is energetic and can pull off a lot of savvy plays and beat people 1v1 or 2v2 fairly easy.

  • #74 SummonerSupreme

    Frankly I'd rather have lucian on my team over cait 10/10 times, and in Gustafs LCS analysis he even pointed out lucian was the only one who could do well vs Caitlyn so that matchup isn't even bad for him really. I'd rather have an adc who can actually do things 1v1 or 2v2 especially in soloQ, having lucian on your team just means you win the 2v2 then continue to scale well and it's absurd. Caitlyn's safer early but lucian's dash makes him VERY safe as well, that slow cleanse makes a big difference levels 1-5 (cleanses Lulu Q , thresh flay,  janna W and many other important early slows) allowing him to avoid all ins or extra autos easily. 

    Late game adcs don't do that much now honestly, they're just gonna get killed by the shyvanas and Jax/Yasuos and assasins running at them anyway

  • #82 klocugh12

    Cait has strong sieging power with good range and Q wave clear.

  • #9 Gameguy301

    At what point did they imply they were nerfing braum? (They didn't) they said they were keeping an eye on him just like they do with all new champions they have buffs and nerfs pre-packaged and usually wait a cycle or two to release them IF needed based on data and player feedback (that's doesn't mean GD whining).

    Last edited by Gameguy301: 5/14/2014 1:36:51 AM
  • #17 IvyBlade

    "2)" Actually there are ppl that do care about support Soraka so be a good person and stop saying how a braindead monkey can play her and how boring it is to have her when you state at "3)" that FF needs to get retuned and buffed... I'm glad that the Masters Yi and Warwicks from their previous states are finally vanishing... I have like... Almost never played jungle in ranked cuz I pretty much suck with anything that's melee and has to autoattack to stay alive... It was stupid when a person like me could singlehandely carry with the likes of MY and WW...

    Last edited by IvyBlade: 5/14/2014 3:41:53 AM
  • #59 Yaamahri

    Uh, Soraka IS easy enough that a braindead monkey could play her...

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