Reign of Gaming

taking tenacity off of jungle items hurts tanks more than they think |:

Nautilus nerfs? What the fuck is going on?

His CC went up, his damage went down.  That's more like a lateral move.  Nautilus isn't picked in a game for his damage, ever.  His CC is what he's useful for.

Still PBE, so maybe never happens.

the reason he is not very good right now is because of his early clear. Nerfing his W damage nerfs his early crappy early clear. 

Quote from vovan12 jump

the reason he is not very good right now is because of his early clear. Nerfing his W damage nerfs his early crappy early clear. 

 Naut's early clear is currently fine, and the riptide change more then makes up for the damage loss on his W and makes him harder to duel- and his weak duel early jungle is his real problem.

Yeah, many people apparently fixate on W nerf, missing E changes.

No nightmare Cho pic yet?

found it. it looks the same as before just darker shades to fit the new map.
ty for the info

Pretty nice changes but I have to ask why lower frenzy cooldown by 50% against minions? Might as well just drop it to 9 seconds in all cases. I mean 18 seconds for a melee nuke that's gated behind auto attack stack requirements? It's not like volibear is in danger of overpowering top lane.

Right typo on my part, but the question is does a buff to volibear's w even need to be jungle specific? I mean 18 second seems outrageous in all contexts for his w I mean for a Melee nuke that is a huge cooldown and to top it off it's gated behind a requirement for frenzy stacks, volibear's strongest position is jungle and he even struggles there in that light an all context across the board buff seems appropriate. seems like they could drop the cooldown to always be 9 seconds and no one would lose sleep over it.

Aw I worried that would be the case I can see how a high base damage + execute could be a problem in lane. i kind of wish there was a method for him to lower the CD but only late game, but that would be complicated to keep it from effecting laning phase. Well I guess if late game is the problem for volibear they could just buff his rank 2 and 3 ultimate, (keeping the anti monster chsnge of course).

I don't understand how helping tank junglers constitutes nerfing ratios, damage, and CC? Sejuani and Maokai started to see some play after reworks with damage and versatility moving to HP moves either %ofHP or %ofEnemyHP. Zac at launch was an example of this although overpowered initially. I don't see how CDR and ratio changes fix tank jungler problems.

Great new shiny Sunfire jungle item but the issue with tanks that EVERY PRO will quote is, "they do no damage". Now I understand that is not their niche but this whole diversity talk is nonexistent if you start to remove what utility they have.

Quote from GeneralGinja jump

I don't understand how helping tank junglers constitutes nerfing ratios, damage, and CC? Sejuani and Maokai started to see some play after reworks with damage and versatility moving to HP moves either %ofHP or %ofEnemyHP. Zac at launch was an example of this although overpowered initially. I don't see how CDR and ratio changes fix tank jungler problems. Great new shiny Sunfire jungle item but the issue with tanks that EVERY PRO will quote is, "they do no damage". Now I understand that is not their niche but this whole diversity talk is nonexistent if you start to remove what utility they have.

Umm... you missed the implications of the cooldown change to Nautilus, I guess?

With the reduction of cooldown on he'll be doing 220 + 0.3 AP every 4 seconds vs. 220 + 0.5 AP every 10. So, he's Riptide'n 2.5 times as often. He just got 330 + .25 AP damage in the same average 10 second window. And he'll have someone 50% slowed for 1.25 seconds more then he used to in an average 10 second window. Now how was his ratios, damage and CC nerfed again?

Yes, he lost 25 flat damage on all ranks on Titan's Wrath, but how many AAs did you get off early jungle before monsters took off the shield? How many AAs did you get off in team fights before you lost the shield? Unless you build 2.5 AS and play against beginner bots something it's unlikely these changes would ever be a damage nerf.

Your second paragraph is exactly the point. Tanks have issues clearing, the items are to help that. A flat 25 damage drop on a skill scaling off hp will absolutely cripple his already horrid first clear. Combine that with an impossible ability to duel early aggression leaves him where? 25 flat damage drop with no durability compensation, 5 pots to 2, and defensive masteries that are relatively garbage compared to the offensive choices... Yes he'll be able to maybe use 2 spell rotations simultaneously on one target However none of that will matter if invades are used to abuse them as has been the problem with tanks in the jungle since the end of season 2. Rune, mastery, and pen changes all crippled tanks with no compensations being made. Tanks have always had weak early games which were traded for huge game changing team fight CC/initiation. Can't tank without items which need gold and if you can't farm because of invasion good luck.

Quote from GeneralGinjajump

Your second paragraph is exactly the point. Tanks have issues clearing, the items are to help that. A flat 25 damage drop on a skill scaling off hp will absolutely cripple his already horrid first clear.

Combine that with an impossible ability to duel early aggression leaves him where?

25 flat damage drop with no durability compensation, 5 pots to 2, and defensive masteries that are relatively garbage compared to the offensive choices... Yes he'll be able to maybe use 2 spell rotations simultaneously on one target However none of that will matter if invades are used to abuse them as has been the problem with tanks in the jungle since the end of season 2. Rune, mastery, and pen changes all crippled tanks with no compensations being made. Tanks have always had weak early games which were traded for huge game changing team fight CC/initiation. Can't tank without items which need gold and if you can't farm because of invasion good luck.

Not sure who you are arguing with at this point; I certainly haven't indicated I thought this was the best possible direction to buff him in or even that this was a large enough buff. But seriously, this is unequivocally a buff, and you have now switched from saying it isn't to now arguing that it wasn't the right buff. Time will tell whether it was or not.

 However, the reason that defensive masteries/rune/stats aren't being buffed and individual tanks are is because when you buff the defensive tree the only thing that changes is Lee Sin quits going 21/9/0 and starts going 9/21/0 and struggling tanks remain irrelevant.

There is no such thing as a tank in LoL, only bruisers with varying levels of effective health, damage, and utility, and the sooner people get out of the MMO mentality that feels that tanks exist somehow independently of other roles the better.

HAHA GET FUCKED VI