New Raka sounds so damn good.

  • #1
    New Passive:
    -Heals are increased by 1% for every 2% HP your target is missing.
    Since she will be building AP, her heals will be stronger already, but that new passive boost too.

    The base armor on her heal is going up, along with it now scaling with AP.
    Her heal CD will also decrease every time you hit a champ with Q.

    And if you build her with Mana/AP items, her E will give a ton of mana, and hit pretty damn hard.

    I have zero issues with these changes. The Sona changes though... sad days.
  • #36
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Miyabi Doll View Post
    nope its a giant nerf to soraka
    We're not trying to nerf Soraka, instead aiming to adjust her play style to fit with the preseason changes and have a healthier pattern (in combat saves and action over staying back and topping off her team). As with all the core supports we've made some adjustments to if this does turns out to be a giant nerf we'll put some power back into them in the follow up patch. Similarly if our assessments been wrong in the other direction, and some supports end up too strong following the preseason patch, we'll tone their power down.

    TLDR: Let's talk a week or two after the patch goes out once things have been experimented with and settle down a bit and we'll then adjust power as needed.
  • #99
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Blaine Tog View Post
    I'm totally on board with seeing how it all falls down with the new changes, but I am concerned that Soraka's core issue hasn't been addressed: as a dedicated healer, she either erases the enemy's efforts and is toxic or fails to erase their efforts and is useless. If the former, she's just going to get nerfed and if the latter, utility mages will poach her spot on the team. Do you guys have ideas for which levers to pull to get her into a good, competitive spot?
    That's still a concern, and something we may have to address with bigger kit changes (not just number adjustments) at a later date. These changes are intended to shift her towards a more interesting and healthy playstyle though, with healing that cools down quicker in combat, is most effective on those in real need, a mana cost on the mana battery play of infuse but not the silence and a solid chunk of Armor once you've got some AP that allows a lot of short duration mitigation. If she turns out to be too weak we'll likely buff some of those strengths a bit more.

    Also worth bearing in mind that her healing output hasn't been equally problematic through out the course of a game - it's most unhealthy during the laning phase, late game there are a number of other healers with similar (or sometimes higher) healing output. In previous years when Soraka was a really dominant choice bot lane Lifesteal quints/early vamp sceptors also weren't regular choices, so the difference between a sustain lane and not was much starker. On top of that jungle play's also become much more experienced (choice of gank paths and timings in particular), which is harder for a low CC/mobility support like Soraka to compensate for some times. As a result of all that while I suspect we'll see some issues crop up again their context's changed so they may present in different forms/to different degrees.
  • #101
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Fooly or Cooly View Post
    Your design seems counter-intuitive, and leads me to believe every support is going to be worthless in comparison to a utility mage or a bruiser with a stun. Why take soraka over a nidalee, when both can get items,but nidalee brings damage and a higher-scaling heal? Nobody is going to care about janna being able to speed you up more, or lulu bringing a more cripling slow, when that is all they have. I know that I would rather have a xin Zhao with a brutalizer at level 6 over the soraka with a kages. Your design team claims they want supports to experience the same kind of end-game power as every other role, yet you give them more items in exchange for nerfed ratios. More items mean less if the champions dont scale.
    Our goal is to have supports scale utility more with items and non supports scale damage more with items, with both of those types being attractive choices to put in a duo lane as a non farming champion. If the utility scaling that's currently present isn't enough to compensate for the lack of damage versus say, AP mages, then we'll buff that utility. What we don't want to do is just turn supports into utility mages (some utility, high damage) - they're a different class that offers a distinct experience and we'd like to enhance that, not homogenize that.
  • #104
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Skyhawke View Post
    Hey Meddler, I promise I'm not being inflammatory here. I'd like to get Riot's thoughts on this matter.

    What was the thought process behind nerfing many of the traditional, non-tank supports as we head into the preseason? The rationale seems to be something like "well, now they will get money so we have to tone them down a bit." I just don't think this logic holds up, and I think it goes against your established goals for the next season.

    If supports were in such a powerful position that getting gold would break them, why are they not overpowering in solo lane situations? Sure many of these champions can get by in a solo lane, but they aren't wrecking teams once they get gold. I've heard the argument that this is because the traditional supports are amazing in a duo lane while crappy in a single lane. I don't think this is the case, however. It might hold a tiny bit of weight, but overall there's nothing in a Lulu, Sona or Soraka kit that means they absolutely have to play with someone else.

    This isn't my biggest point, however. The real issue I see here is that the setup, as of now, seems to really undermine your goals for season four. The new season is being sold as a breathing new life into the support role, and nerfing those traditional supports as the season starts makes me think it's going to feel contradictory. If the changes hold as is, I think we will eventually see a massive decline in traditional, AP-based supports while tanky supports and "utility mages" will become even more popular. As you mentioned, the topic can be revisited at that point and I am confident that the problems would be fixed with time. But wouldn't it be better to avoid a "Black Cleaver situation" like last year? Wouldn't it be better to err on the side of supports and see if they come out too strong and then nerf them down if they are overbearing?

    I'm just really puzzled why the exciting vision, gold, and utility changes are being tainted by nerfs for traditional supports right from the start.

    If it helps, the champions I think are being clearly nerfed are Soraka, Janna, Sona, Taric, and to a lesser extent, Lulu.
    As above we'd like supports to be strong choices, picked for their utility in particular. If it turns out after this patch goes out that we've overestimated how strong they'll be (could well happen) we'll buff, likely in the next patch.

    R.E. current core supports not dominating in solo lanes a lot of their power in lane is underutilized if it's not augmenting an ally as well as the support in question (Sona's auras, 2nd heal on an ally for example). There's also some team comp impact (you're either not giving your ADC a support or running a two support team for example) which may or may no be desired.