@Riot 3 minute spectator delay is not enough

  • As a jungle main, I am concerned that a 3 minute delay is not enough to prevent teams from gaining an advantage by having someone spectate a game and give them information. The respawn timer on red and blue buff are 5 minutes. With a 3 minute spectator delay, this means that a spectator could watch the enemy jungler take their red or blue buff, then inform their friend that the buff will be up in 2 minutes.

    With an increase in aggresive counter jungling, this doesn't seem fair. I know that in many cases it is possible to know when the enemy buffs will be up (seeing the mid come to lane with blue means it will be up in about 4:50, CV while the jungler is taking a buff) but if you do not know when enemy buffs are respawning it should not be possible for a spectator to give you timers that you would otherwise not have.

    I realize that an excessively long delay is annoying, but I would ask Riot to increase the delay to 5 minutes. That way, you would only be able to say that an enemy buff is going to be up right now if you were talking to someone in the game, as opposed to allowing a team to be waiting there when the buff respawns if they didn't get the timer in game.

    EDIT: People have also raised the point that when you see a ward placed while spectating, it has just died in game.

    It has also been pointed out that players with 2 computers and 2 accounts could spectate their own games in order to gain this advantage.
  • Quote:
    <table cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" border="0" width="100%"> <tr> <td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset; padding:10px;">
    Originally Posted by Maple Leaf 67 View Post
    As a jungle main, I am concerned that a 3 minute delay is not enough to prevent teams from gaining an advantage by having someone spectate a game and give them information. The respawn timer on red and blue buff are 5 minutes. With a 3 minute spectator delay, this means that a spectator could watch the enemy jungler take their red or blue buff, then inform their friend that the buff will be up in 2 minutes.

    With an increase in aggresive counter jungling, this doesn't seem fair. I know that in many cases it is possible to know when the enemy buffs will be up (seeing the mid come to lane with blue means it will be up in about 4:50, CV while the jungler is taking a buff) but if you do not know when enemy buffs are respawning it should not be possible for a spectator to give you timers that you would otherwise not have.

    I realize that an excessively long delay is annoying, but I would ask Riot to increase the delay to 5 minutes. That way, you would only be able to say that an enemy buff is going to be up right now if you were talking to someone in the game, as opposed to allowing a team to be waiting there when the buff respawns if they didn't get the timer in game.

    EDIT: People have also raised the point that when you see a ward placed while spectating, it has just died in game.

    It has also been pointed out that players with 2 computers and 2 accounts could spectate their own games in order to gain this advantage.
    </td></tr></table>
    Hi There!

    We know that the 3 minute delay is a contentious issue and we're going to be keeping an eye on it. My team has a few different things with the mode going out that we're going to be keeping an eye on and tweaking if necessary.

    In the entire time of development, we have found it to be very very rare that information three minutes old is of real solid value. By the time spectators bring it up, everyone had figured it out or we weren't in a position to be able to do anything about it anyway (which is why we hadn't figure it out). That said, we also recognize that was through custom games, tournaments, and internal testing - none of which is exactly equivalent to the experience on live.

    Adjusting delay I don't believe requires a patch, so we can be fairly reactive with it. It's good you guys are thinking through this stuff and bringing up your concerns. Let us know if it becomes an issue once we patch, and if changes are needed we'll make them.
  • The short answer here is -- if it's a problem, it's extremely easy to change it, and it will be pretty obvious if it is a problem.. The servers actually have a slightly easier time with a longer delay anyway ;p

    - Zileas
  • Quote:
    <table cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" border="0" width="100%"> <tr> <td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset; padding:10px;">
    Originally Posted by Systolic View Post
    This seems like a REALLY good idea. +1

    Still SOMEWHAT exploitable, but maybe they could implement a spectator approval option to where the player has to approve that someone is watching in real time.
    </td></tr></table>
    I've seen this come up a bunch and while it's interesting, I think we run into even more abuse cases without really unlocking what you guys are looking for. What happens if someone has both members of blue and purple on his friends list as an example? The closer you get to zeo delay, the higher the chance that spectators can have a huge impact on the game, regardless of what we lock their camera to, unless we could also make it so you can only look at what your friends eyeballs are focusing on within the screen.

    Plus the common use case brought up here is mentoring. The idea of mentoring your friends is hugely important to me, but I don't think this is the right path to that. When I want to mentor people - and we actually have formal mentoring sessions here at riot between employees - I want that "right next to them" experience. I want to talk to them, to point out things, to potentially be able to step in and show them something then allow them to try it out. The metaphor I like to use is driving school - a car with two wheels.

    Spectator mode is not the right tool for this. I know you guys want anything and so you're trying to leverage this to do that, but I would actually encourage you to look more towards streaming or screensharing if you're looking to do hardcore mentorship as I think you'll have more success.

    If I got the opportunity to build you guys some better mentorship tools in the future, I'd jump on it, but right now I'm focused on other stuff.