There are some things that make Zed not as good as most assassins in game and it is his damage... i know he can burst down any "squishy" but his ratios are actually not even good compared to other AD assassins like Talon, Pantheon, and Kha'Zix
Lets compare his damage to the other assassins
Zed base damage without ultimate is of 525(+2.4 AD) and 787(+3.6 AD) with ultimate
Talon base damage without bonus damage from E is about 1020(+4.5 bonus ad)
Kha'Zix base damage is of 630(+3.3 ad)(not isolated) 720(+4.1 AD) to isolated
(passive not included in both)
Pantheon base damage is of 1195(5.0 AD + 1.5 AP) ult min 1695(5.0 AD 2.0 AP) ult max
in the case everyone has ONLY 1 full stacked Bloodthrister this would be the damage
this would make look like zed can over power kha zix in burst at least for17.5 damage right? false
in that calculation kha zix dont have his passive damage (220) and his Q would do 12% of targets missing health if he evolves it.
that leaves zed as the assassins with the lowest damage and ratios between them all you could say that if i use another E the damge would increase right? but in that case i could use another kha zix Q or talon Q or Pantheon Q(in wich all have better ratios and will result in them making more damage than zed)
what can we do to at least fix this a little bit? i have some ideas that could work
Passive : 10 seconds cooldown seems too high when it already needs to be under 50% hp it could be usefull to lower it to 8 maybe i know it 8% of your MAX hp but 2 auto attacks of a madredblood razor does that for you without the need of 50% hp
Q = Increase the ratios, 1.0 Bonus AD is really low, it could go up to 1.2 Bonus AD making it 1.8 AD just by doing this you would be doing 525 damage with just 1 bloodthirster compared to the 495 dont seem like much but it is actually something great when paired with your ult
W = lower the cooldown, this is the biggest problem this skill haves you could use your E to lower it but isnt that reliable since pushing your lane to get your cooldowns back sounds like a bad idea for laning phase
E= dont really have complaints about this skill other than energy cost it is just way too high it could be 40 but no 50 thats too much and maybe a little increase to base damage
R= this ultimate lacks something, it already does 50% of the damage you dealt in 3 seconds but compared to what the other assasins could do is not that good, i was thinking of 10/15/20% damage increase to the marked target since it does no damage at all (or thats what it looks in the description) but it could get a little to powerfull and you would end up being just an attack damage version of Vladimir but it could help(im just worried about trinity procs during this time)
sorry for the wall of text and for my english since it isnt my main language but i do what i can to contribute with my opinion to this champion who needs some changes imo
PS: I did not included ap assassins since i cant compare equally the damage because they are not based on AD
Thanks for the feedback. You appear to be omitting a few variables which add substantially to Zed's burst. Since Zed's scaling is an important point of discussion, I'll enumerate them and perhaps you can run the numbers again:
1. Zed's auto-attacks functionally have a 1.5 AD ratio during his ultimate;
2. You don't seem to have accounted for Zed's passive at all in these calculations;
3. Zed's E is on a very low cooldown. He can get a second E off on his target during his burst combo a large portion of the time. This is far from guaranteed, but it is a reward for being able to stay on your target for more than an instant (something I feel talon lacks beyond his AA reset);
That being said, Zed probably does a bit less burst than Talon. We perceive this to be necessary for a few reasons:
A. Zed is an excellent farmer, much more capable than Kha'Zix and moderately more so than Talon. He will on average have access to more bonus AD from items than those two and will be able to roam more liberally when facing an unfavorable lane opponent;
B. With proper ability use, Zed has more mobility than any of our other AD assassins. He is able to take trickier routes when ganking other lanes (or from the jungle), get out of hairier situations, and rapidly engage from longer range than Talon or Kha'Zix;
C. Zed's can poke. As an energy based champion with ranged harass, we expect him to be able to whittle his lane opponent down a bit before engaging.
All of which is to say that different champions can do different amounts of damage and still be balanced.
[Also, listing Pantheon ult max damage makes me think you either have never played LoL before or are not interested in having a serious conversation!]
That last sentence is what I hate about almost every Riot poster. I loathe it. I want to punch 90% of you in the face for that absolutely pathetic smug arrogance, like somehow you're beyond reproach, and a person raising a point is an ******* simply because they disagree with you. How about you have a little respect for the people that keep your lights on and the food on your table? The OP was bringing up what he saw as valid concerns in a respectful manner, and yousadick.
I addressed the rest of his post respectfully and without judgment and invited him to update his post to reflect what I saw as the complete numbers so that we could continue the conversation.
I make no apologies for calling someone out when they say something inflammatory or grossly misleading.
Zed feedback "not so assassin"
There are some things that make Zed not as good as most assassins in game and it is his damage... i know he can burst down any "squishy" but his ratios are actually not even good compared to other AD assassins like Talon, Pantheon, and Kha'Zix
Lets compare his damage to the other assassins
Zed base damage without ultimate is of 525(+2.4 AD) and 787(+3.6 AD) with ultimate
Talon base damage without bonus damage from E is about 1020(+4.5 bonus ad)
Kha'Zix base damage is of 630(+3.3 ad)(not isolated) 720(+4.1 AD) to isolated
(passive not included in both)
Pantheon base damage is of 1195(5.0 AD + 1.5 AP) ult min 1695(5.0 AD 2.0 AP) ult max
in the case everyone has ONLY 1 full stacked Bloodthrister this would be the damage
Zed = 765 ~ 1147.5
Talon = 1470
Kha Zix = 960 ~ 1130
Pantheon = 1695 ~ 2195
this would make look like zed can over power kha zix in burst at least for17.5 damage right? false
in that calculation kha zix dont have his passive damage (220) and his Q would do 12% of targets missing health if he evolves it.
that leaves zed as the assassins with the lowest damage and ratios between them all you could say that if i use another E the damge would increase right? but in that case i could use another kha zix Q or talon Q or Pantheon Q(in wich all have better ratios and will result in them making more damage than zed)
what can we do to at least fix this a little bit? i have some ideas that could work
Passive : 10 seconds cooldown seems too high when it already needs to be under 50% hp it could be usefull to lower it to 8 maybe i know it 8% of your MAX hp but 2 auto attacks of a madredblood razor does that for you without the need of 50% hp
Q = Increase the ratios, 1.0 Bonus AD is really low, it could go up to 1.2 Bonus AD making it 1.8 AD just by doing this you would be doing 525 damage with just 1 bloodthirster compared to the 495 dont seem like much but it is actually something great when paired with your ult
W = lower the cooldown, this is the biggest problem this skill haves you could use your E to lower it but isnt that reliable since pushing your lane to get your cooldowns back sounds like a bad idea for laning phase
E= dont really have complaints about this skill other than energy cost it is just way too high it could be 40 but no 50 thats too much and maybe a little increase to base damage
R= this ultimate lacks something, it already does 50% of the damage you dealt in 3 seconds but compared to what the other assasins could do is not that good, i was thinking of 10/15/20% damage increase to the marked target since it does no damage at all (or thats what it looks in the description) but it could get a little to powerfull and you would end up being just an attack damage version of Vladimir but it could help(im just worried about trinity procs during this time)
sorry for the wall of text and for my english since it isnt my main language but i do what i can to contribute with my opinion to this champion who needs some changes imo
PS: I did not included ap assassins since i cant compare equally the damage because they are not based on AD
1. Zed's auto-attacks functionally have a 1.5 AD ratio during his ultimate;
2. You don't seem to have accounted for Zed's passive at all in these calculations;
3. Zed's E is on a very low cooldown. He can get a second E off on his target during his burst combo a large portion of the time. This is far from guaranteed, but it is a reward for being able to stay on your target for more than an instant (something I feel talon lacks beyond his AA reset);
That being said, Zed probably does a bit less burst than Talon. We perceive this to be necessary for a few reasons:
A. Zed is an excellent farmer, much more capable than Kha'Zix and moderately more so than Talon. He will on average have access to more bonus AD from items than those two and will be able to roam more liberally when facing an unfavorable lane opponent;
B. With proper ability use, Zed has more mobility than any of our other AD assassins. He is able to take trickier routes when ganking other lanes (or from the jungle), get out of hairier situations, and rapidly engage from longer range than Talon or Kha'Zix;
C. Zed's can poke. As an energy based champion with ranged harass, we expect him to be able to whittle his lane opponent down a bit before engaging.
All of which is to say that different champions can do different amounts of damage and still be balanced.
[Also, listing Pantheon ult max damage makes me think you either have never played LoL before or are not interested in having a serious conversation!]
I make no apologies for calling someone out when they say something inflammatory or grossly misleading.